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Old 01-07-2010, 10:14 AM   #61
 
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Re: Tutorial-How to Rewind a Smoked Charging Stator

Originally Posted by MTXMUGEN View Post
Update. Stator is varnished and is still working as exceedingly well as it did when i first put it in the bike almost 4k miles ago

varnishing tutorial coming soon!
great to hear.

it's been a little cold out and haven't started the rebuild yet.

would you want me to crack the old varnish off to measure the guage or just measure with varnish on?

eagerly awaiting the varnishing technique alons with what wires you used to finish off the 3 output wires to the harness. ( and how you joined them to the 18 guage wires, obviously soldered but i'd like to see how it looked )

also was there any special output wires that you used considering that some of that wire will be in the stator casing thus taking a lot of heat and getting coated in oil. I'm assuming that the regular rubber shielding that most wires use may not be durable enough.
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Old 01-08-2010, 12:23 AM   #62
 
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Re: Tutorial-How to Rewind a Smoked Charging Stator

Originally Posted by MACI4LIFE View Post
great to hear.

it's been a little cold out and haven't started the rebuild yet.

would you want me to crack the old varnish off to measure the guage or just measure with varnish on?

eagerly awaiting the varnishing technique alons with what wires you used to finish off the 3 output wires to the harness. ( and how you joined them to the 18 guage wires, obviously soldered but i'd like to see how it looked )

also was there any special output wires that you used considering that some of that wire will be in the stator casing thus taking a lot of heat and getting coated in oil. I'm assuming that the regular rubber shielding that most wires use may not be durable enough.
What you want to do is just pull the wires off. dont worry about damaging or breaking the wire.. Just dont hurt the powdercoating on the stator if you can avoid it. if you do, use some nomex like I showed in the pics.... The wire wont want to come off at times and finding the first strand to start off with is a bit of a pain but it will come off. just look for the output wire that looks like it will come off the easist and start there. each pole of the same phase is seperated by 2 teth containing poles form the other two phases, so in essance every 3rd pole from a given tooth is of the same phase. obviously you will want to follow the wire for the roataion (which doesnt matter on the rewind)

If you want, post up the dimeter of a stripped wire and one with enamel and i will tell you what guage it is. it should be either 16 or 18 guage though.

All i did for my stator was use brass and solder the new ends to the original output leads.. the enamel on the wire (assuming the wire is rated appropriatly, 200c or higher..) will wistand heat and oil without varnish.

I have another stator that will probably be put up for grabs that will be varnished though..

ill post the pics of that then the procedure for it varnishing.
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Old 01-25-2010, 11:45 PM   #63
 
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Re: Tutorial-How to Rewind a Smoked Charging Stator

Nice write up

What kind of varnish do you use and where do you buy it?
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Old 02-15-2010, 9:39 PM   #64
 
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Re: Tutorial-How to Rewind a Smoked Charging Stator

I'm going to give this a try, my cronies at work say I'm nuts. But they ride harleys and wannabe harleys, all show and no go! So, what about the old varnish? The oven I will bake my complete stator in will only get to approx 450 deg. It would not melt off the old varnish. Do i find a hotter oven or just peel and chip away at the old varnish? Also, I was surprised at how loosely wrapped the wires were around the posts. It was obvious where mine failed. Let's get to the varnish part eh? Thanks for the GREAT tips!!
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Old 02-15-2010, 11:39 PM   #65
 
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Re: Tutorial-How to Rewind a Smoked Charging Stator

Originally Posted by antitango View Post
I'm going to give this a try, my cronies at work say I'm nuts. But they ride harleys and wannabe harleys, all show and no go! So, what about the old varnish? The oven I will bake my complete stator in will only get to approx 450 deg. It would not melt off the old varnish. Do i find a hotter oven or just peel and chip away at the old varnish? Also, I was surprised at how loosely wrapped the wires were around the posts. It was obvious where mine failed. Let's get to the varnish part eh? Thanks for the GREAT tips!!
I am not sure if you can melt alredy cured varnish.. its usually just chars when heated but i am no expert when it comes to the stuff so i could be missing something.

i typically just let it chip and crack away as im unwinding the stator. its kind of a messy way of doing it but i know it works. just remember, a stator will only unwind in the reverse order it was wound due to overlapp bewteen poles. once you figure out that sequence then it typically goes pretty smooth with the typical pinch here or there.

as far as varnishing goes... i have yet to varnish the one in my bike and i havent had a lot of down time to start winding the other stator i have from my parts motor but i an working to change that.. ill post up a procedure as soon as i can
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Old 02-16-2010, 12:10 AM   #66
 
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Re: Tutorial-How to Rewind a Smoked Charging Stator

Thanks, I guess we are all learning something here. I may have some info to help you complete this story. A guy i know has a forklift repair business and he has varnished motors many times and said he would help me. He tried to cook the varnish off and 450 degrees did not melt it, he though more would work. Tonight, I took my torch to it, it did not drip off as expected. The torch only heated up the metal and appeared to potentially do more damage. He did sand blast the surfaces for better contact. When mine is varnished, i will repost the details. Thanks for the tip on removing the old varnish.
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Old 05-15-2010, 4:34 PM   #67
 
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Re: Tutorial-How to Rewind a Smoked Charging Stator

question for MTXMUGEN, I notice you're talking about AWG 16 or 17 for a delta-rewind, (From what I gather, that means 37 turns per pole) and some of the useless bastards here in europe are providing aftermarket STAR rewinds with 1.1mm (AWG 17) wire, with 25 turns per pole. . These don't last long.
I can imagine why they use star, it's less work. And less thickness is less expense. But the torrent of abuse they get for their @#$%^&*() work, you think they'd try harder. Oh well.....

Anyway, if I read your message clearly, we should be rewinding delta with 37 turns and AWG 17 minimum. Can you confirm?

and if I wanted to rewind star? What wire gauge? How many turns?
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Old 05-17-2010, 8:44 AM   #68
 
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Re: Tutorial-How to Rewind a Smoked Charging Stator

I have adopted the opinion that you should not waste your time with any aftermarket stators at all. Mine just went for the 4th time. I rewound by hand for the second time. I used #17 because I don't think I can wind it tight enough for #16. My first rewind was with #19 and I expected that to fail. (It lasted 7000km) We'll see how long this one lasts. Some things to consider... Many materials that may be used to rewind a stator are not heat/oil resistant enough. It is particularly hard on the wires that go from the windings to the connector. This time I used some #14 wire that is rated at 150C. I don't know how oil resistant it is.
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Old 05-17-2010, 3:36 PM   #69
 
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Re: Tutorial-How to Rewind a Smoked Charging Stator

Did you wind it star or delta? How many turns? Did you bother with lacquering it?

..the devil is in the details....
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Old 05-17-2010, 4:53 PM   #70
 
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Re: Tutorial-How to Rewind a Smoked Charging Stator

I used something specifically for coating windings, the first time. This time I used a magnet wire from a shop that rebuilds electric pumps. They have some applications that are immersed in liquids. I prefer the delta and it's the way Honda does it. The aftermarket stators use the wye. Oh yes I used 37 turns, same as stock. I'm not an engineer so I would not change that.
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Old 05-17-2010, 5:52 PM   #71
 
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Re: Tutorial-How to Rewind a Smoked Charging Stator

Originally Posted by oldbastard View Post
question for MTXMUGEN, I notice you're talking about AWG 16 or 17 for a delta-rewind, (From what I gather, that means 37 turns per pole) and some of the useless bastards here in europe are providing aftermarket STAR rewinds with 1.1mm (AWG 17) wire, with 25 turns per pole. . These don't last long.
I can imagine why they use star, it's less work. And less thickness is less expense. But the torrent of abuse they get for their @#$%^&*() work, you think they'd try harder. Oh well.....

Anyway, if I read your message clearly, we should be rewinding delta with 37 turns and AWG 17 minimum. Can you confirm?

and if I wanted to rewind star? What wire gauge? How many turns?
Well, i have never head of a "star" pattern before but a quick google search showed that it is just another name for a wye termination.

A wye is actualy a good way to terminate the wiress.. it uses less turns BUT to get the same amp capability, a wye terminated stator needs to use larger wire. for effeciency reasons i favor a delta termination over a wye for a charging stator. it looks better on a oscilloscope too

i believe i actually rewound with 16 AWG. with 16 you have to put a lot of effort into neatly stacking the wire or you will not get all your turns in... 17 would work but i wouldent go smaller then 18.. at least not without using multiple strands. the stock stator is 37 turns.
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Old 05-17-2010, 5:59 PM   #72
 
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Re: Tutorial-How to Rewind a Smoked Charging Stator

Originally Posted by 00blade View Post
I have adopted the opinion that you should not waste your time with any aftermarket stators at all. Mine just went for the 4th time. I rewound by hand for the second time. I used #17 because I don't think I can wind it tight enough for #16. My first rewind was with #19 and I expected that to fail. (It lasted 7000km) We'll see how long this one lasts. Some things to consider... Many materials that may be used to rewind a stator are not heat/oil resistant enough. It is particularly hard on the wires that go from the windings to the connector. This time I used some #14 wire that is rated at 150C. I don't know how oil resistant it is.
not to be an @hole or anything but you really should be using a higher temp rated wire.. 150C does not give you a lot of room for error.even though normal engine temps are far below that mark, Your stator temp isnt. the oscillating magnetic fields produce heat(kind of like an induction furnace).. and to make it worse, theres no real source of cooling. . i would say 200C rated wire would be the minimum

Last edited by MTXMUGEN; 05-18-2010 at 5:32 PM.
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Old 05-18-2010, 10:42 AM   #73
 
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Re: Tutorial-How to Rewind a Smoked Charging Stator

One of the biggest problems I have had in rewinding these things is sourcing wire suitable for heat an oil. I doubt very much that the temp rating of any mass produced stator is even as high as what I used.
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Old 05-18-2010, 5:36 PM   #74
 
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Re: Tutorial-How to Rewind a Smoked Charging Stator

Originally Posted by 00blade View Post
.... This time I used some #14 wire that is rated at 150C...
if that is the case then your previous statement is not entirely accurate. most industrial motor wire is rated for at least 180C. as far as the stator goes, they can take far more heat then the wire enamel
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Old 05-19-2010, 1:36 PM   #75
 
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Re: Tutorial-How to Rewind a Smoked Charging Stator

I think you misunderstood, I don't know the temp rating of the motor wire. It is the stranded wire leading out of the stator to R/R that is rated for 150C. I called around to various places and the best most of them offered was 135C
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