[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by oldfogey

MV, for me, doesn't do it, because the bikes, while beautifully designed, have no equivalent racing heritage. I know the name does, but not the company that produces bikes with the name now.

That's coming. They've been winning several World Supersport races and are talking about moving on to superbike.

It's a small not so well funded company, that for quite a while wasn't making money on the bikes they sold.

They've swung to profitability and are slowly starting to race and win, with their bike.

I don't think the current MV will ever build the legacy of Honda in racing, nor will they get back to their previous glory....but they'll get some decent results.

[phobiaphobe]

Ducatis are even more pricey when you factor in the cost of the truck and trailer required to haul them out to rallies and bike nights.

[RRWANTR]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

That's coming. They've been winning several World Supersport races and are talking about moving on to superbike.

It's a small not so well funded company, that for quite a while wasn't making money on the bikes they sold.

They've swung to profitability and are slowly starting to race and win, with their bike.

I don't think the current MV will ever build the legacy of Honda in racing, nor will they get back to their previous glory....but they'll get some decent results.

Worldsupersport wins?? All I've noticed are Hondas and Yamahas winning in WSS...when'd MV win a WSS race?


Heck I don't see one in the top 20...is there even one racing WSS?


1. Broc PARKES (Hon CBR600RR), 1:28.447
2. Sebastien CHARPENTIER (Hon CBR600RR), 1:28.500
3. Kevin CURTAIN (Yam YZF-R6), 1:28.574
4. Kenan SOFUOGLU (Hon CBR600RR), 1:28.634
5. Stephane CHAMBON (Kaw ZX-6RR), 1:28.653
6. Cal CRUTCHLOW (Hon CBR600RR), 1:28.792
7. Leon CAMIER (Hon CBR600RR), 1:29.083
8. Massimo ROCCOLI (Yam YZF-R6), 1:29.170
9. Yoann TIBERIO (Hon CBR600RR), 1:29.222
10. Gianluca VIZZIELLO (Yam YZF-R6), 1:29.323
11. Javier FORES (Yam YZF-r6), 1:29.334
12. Maxime BERGER (Kaw ZX-6RR), 1:29.447
13. Johan STIGEFELT (Hon CBR600RR), 1:29.505
14. Robbin HARMS (Hon CBR600RR), 1:29.546
15. Gianluca NANNELLI (Duc 749R), 1:29.666
16. Simone SANNA (Hon CBR600RR), 1:29.778
17. Barry VENEMAN (Suz GSX-R600), 1:29.808
18. Mauro SANCHINI (Yam YZF-R6), 1:29.863
19. David CHECA (Yam YZF-R6), 1:29.881
20. Matthieu LAGRIVE (Hon CBR600RR), 1:29

[oldfogey]

Not in WSB yet, for sure, L2L (editing having originally put in WSB Brands Hatch results).

Honda were a relatively small start-up when they began racing. Life's changed and moved on since then, and it does take mega-bucks to compete in WSB: I admit the entry price has risen. That just gives Ducati, who managed to get into the niche, more kudos.

[RRWANTR]

]

[oldfogey]

Only that there weren't any MV's in there, but L2L had stated that, so I deleted that post. me!

[luvtolean]

My bad, it's superSTOCK not super sport.

They're currently second in points. I think they've won 2 races but the FIM's site is crap and it's hard to find it.

There's a current rumor from an Italian mag that they'll be racing AMA Superstock next year and WSBK in the future...but as of now, that's no more than a rumor. There is still the homologation problem.

The design is also getting a bit long in the tooth, it's 8 years old.

The speculation is in roughly two years there will be another platform...

[RRWANTR]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

My bad, it's superSTOCK not super sport.

They're currently second in points. I think they've won 2 races but the FIM's site is crap and it's hard to find it.

There's a current rumor from an Italian mag that they'll be racing AMA Superstock next year and WSBK in the future...but as of now, that's no more than a rumor. There is still the homologation problem.

The design is also getting a bit long in the tooth, it's 8 years old.

The speculation is in roughly two years there will be another platform...

Ahh..gotcha...was even wondering if the baby MV is legal for WSS.

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by RRWANTR

Ahh..gotcha...was even wondering if the baby MV is legal for WSS.

Yeah...to be honest, I don't watch or follow that stuff, or care if anyone is racing the thing...I just read the blurbs that come up on the homepage at the MV forum.

[phobiaphobe]

He wasn't quite prepared for someone to call his bluff.

[luvtolean]

On this forum?

Yeah right...I think I normally research my posts more than work e-mails.

[RRWANTR]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

On this forum?

Yeah right...I think I normally research my posts more than work e-mails.

[Ripfuel]

Originally Posted by JBODIE

Everything European is expensive from beers to cars. So why not bikes? Japan outperforms Europe in general. Europe whoops Japans ass in styling and craftsmanship hands down and owning a Ducati is like owning a Harley. You can now name drop and are less likely to run into someone with same bike. My

I would disagree with you on craftsmanship. Like Ducati's, Harley's are also unreliable and are prone to premature failure. The Japanesse are better at it. What you are paying for is blue sky and exclusivity based on price, but in reality, the best bikes are from Japan.

With that being said, bikes can be equated to women. The hottest and highest maintenance women are great to look at and taken out for an occassional spin (getting huge amount of attention from your peers), but are they really better in bed, and can they do anything else then look hot (cook, clean, finances, drag their knee on a turn...etc)?

[ccwilli3]

As oldfogey points out, ducati's reputation is based off racing success. Like ferrari, how they can stay in F1 and be so competitive is amazing. Thank marlboro while you can!

Last month's RRW had an article that showed how many people worked for HRC, how many for kawasaki's race shop and how many for ducati corse. I don't remember but the % of the company that worked for ducati corse was amazing! The others were miniscule in comparison. I'll see if I can find it.

[onevcs]

Originally Posted by Ripfuel

I would disagree with you on craftsmanship. Like Ducati's, Harley's are also unreliable and are prone to premature failure. The Japanesse are better at it. What you are paying for is blue sky and exclusivity based on price, but in reality, the best bikes are from Japan.

European craftmanship USED to be top notch in general. For the last 20 years or so you need to form an opinion more on a case by case basis.

[JBODIE]

Originally Posted by onevcs

European craftmanship USED to be top notch in general. For the last 20 years or so you need to form an opinion more on a case by case basis.

For example?

[onevcs]

Originally Posted by JBODIE

For example?

Well, for example cars. Mercedes, BMW, Volkswagen, Jaguar, and Audi used to be considered, by many, the most reliable cars with the best workmanship available at the time. That was back then. Today most of the mentioned brands are considered luxury cars but not particularly reliable.

ConsumerReports.org - Used cars: Best and worst 4/06

ConsumerReports.org - Reliability trends, how car brands compare 4/06

Agreed that some of those brands, not sure if all of them, offer a free 3 year car care plan which includes many perks other brands don't offer. But rather than having to take the car to the dealer b/c the sunroof is not working, I would just have a sunroof that works, even if they offer speedy transactions, extremely courteous service, a luxurious loaner vehicle, and they know you by name.

[luvtolean]

Volkswagon, Audi, Jaguar and BMW?

Surely you jest...

I guess the early bug wouldn't leave you standed except when the fuel lines break and the magnesium catches fire, but they always ran to varying degrees of shittiness. It's a rare VW that actually runs well.

VW's after that have never been an example of reliability...

Old Range Rovers, Rolls Royces, Mercedes...these were indeed all exmples of well-built craftsmanship that lasted forever. But you paid for it.

[JBODIE]

Originally Posted by onevcs

Well, for example cars. Mercedes, BMW, Volkswagen, Jaguar, and Audi used to be considered, by many, the most reliable cars with the best workmanship available at the time. That was back then. Today most of the mentioned brands are considered luxury cars but not particularly reliable.

ConsumerReports.org - Used cars: Best and worst 4/06

ConsumerReports.org - Reliability trends, how car brands compare 4/06

Agreed that some of those brands, not sure if all of them, offer a free 3 year car care plan which includes many perks other brands don't offer. But rather than having to take the car to the dealer b/c the sunroof is not working, I would just have a sunroof that works, even if they offer speedy transactions, extremely courteous service, a luxurious loaner vehicle, and they know you by name.

Ok, you got it. Can not argue there. I guess i have not really looked at the newer models. From living in Germany, i owned used Vw's and Bmw's, never left me stranded, held resale value well and even cleaned up nice.

[Repeater]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

That's coming. They've been winning several World Supersport races and are talking about moving on to superbike.

It's a small not so well funded company, that for quite a while wasn't making money on the bikes they sold.

They've swung to profitability and are slowly starting to race and win, with their bike.

I don't think the current MV will ever build the legacy of Honda in racing, nor will they get back to their previous glory....but they'll get some decent results.

Isn't MV part of the cagiva group. i think they have hade some GP wins. for some reason they have not promoted the Cagiva brand and opted for the Mv name brand. Cagiva used to own ducati till they sold it to the texas group and so on and so on.

both great bikes. i would love to thrash one at the track (if not get thrashed by one)

[onevcs]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Volkswagon, Audi, Jaguar and BMW?


VW's after that have never been an example of reliability...

OldRange Rovers, Rolls Royces, Mercedes...these were indeed all exmples of well-built craftsmanship that lasted forever. But you paid for it.

I don't have any reliable data to back this up, but it was said back in the mid 80's that the VW Passat was the car in history with the best record to date. At least it was what I heard. Now, the Beatle is probably a bad example since you are talking pre WWII technology being used well into the late 20th century.

Originally Posted by JBODIE

Ok, you got it. Can not argue there. I guess i have not really looked at the newer models. From living in Germany, i owned used Vw's and Bmw's, never left me stranded, held resale value well and even cleaned up nice.

About the MB, BMW and such, today you pay for it but you don't get it.

Having seen the new BMW M5, I am more than ready to be proven wrong.

Cars were just an example, but like I said, nowadays you need to look at things, even cars, on a one by one basis. But being European, Asian, American, etc, does not mean what it used to.

[oldfogey]

Let's not threadjack into car reliability!

There is surely a point that hand-crafted items have greater variability than well-engineered production items, and that is one of the features that is both an attraction and a turn-off, depending on your point of view. I buy pieces of art for their individuality and lack of conformity, but I also buy great photographs that can be reproduced identically at will.

I regarded my 916 when I bought it as a piece of art, or at least hand-crafted engineering, not just a bike to ride. I'm sure L2L thinks of his MV that way. The fact that my 916 was / is reliable was a big bonus. I expected it to be high maintenance, and it was / is. These feelings don't go away even when the product is, in fact, mass produced like a 999 or my Porsche Cayman S. You respect the engineering and design and culture of the company that is, in part, dedicated to racing and making bikes or cars compete at the highest levels.

Honda, as I said in my earlier post, is to me exceptional among mass vehicle producers because in its motorcycles it still has a strong component of this engineering and design allied to race credentials.