[LoopyLee]

I found this just now

3rd Driving Licence Directive Passed by EU Commission

On 14th December 2006, the EU Parliament voted in favour of the 3rd Driving Licence Directive.
There may be some flexibility in how the UK implements its requirements, and clarification is still being sought on some of the comments in their Press Release. But, its a done deal.
From 2013, the Directive requires:

For all drivers (car, lorry, motorcycle, ....):

• retest every 10 years
• possible compulsory medicals

For motorcyclists:

• Access to big bikes only at age 24
• Test bikes at each licence 'step' bear no relation to what you will then be allowed to ride.
• Additional full test to move from A2 to A categories (currently based on experience).

[vex918]

It does'nt suprise me..... they are only doing it for the money....can you imagine how many people would be taking/retaking their test on a daily bases if this came into effect....eye tests and medicals every 5 or 10 years would be enough.

If it goes ahead it's going to cost me a fortune to renew all the categories on mine.

[LoopyLee]

I don't like this part

Additional full test to move from A2 to A categories (currently based on experience).

If this goes ahead as is, and knowing our flippin government it bl00dy will , if you pass your motorbike test on a 125cc bike and are on a restricted licence for the first 2 years, like I am, you would have to take the bike test AGAIN at the end of the two years to be able to ride bigger bikes

And it would be the flippin new bike test too and we've seen how good a start thats gotten off to

Stuff that.. I'd just bung a 600cc engine in the bike and run it like that..

[vex918]

Originally Posted by LoopyLee

I don't like this part

I'd just bung a 600cc engine in the bike and run it like that..

Way to go.........

I like this bit...

Test bikes at each licence 'step' bear no relation to what you will then be allowed to ride.

Does that mean that you will have to sit the test on a blade, to be allowed to ride a 125??? .... what a bunch of morons

As usual our goverment has the right to pick the cherry pick the parts that they want to use makes me want to

[LoopyLee]

It looks like you will have to be over 24 to do a Direct Access course as well, instead of the current age of 21

Here's a link to the "The European Driving Licence: ensuring security, safety and free movement" memo I just found

This is how the legislation is likely to affect bikes...

The likely scenario for the UK will be :

* Age 16 CBT Provisional Moped, Theory and hazard perception test, Off road manouvres test, on road test. Full P licence.
* Age 17 CBT Provisional A1 motorcycle, Theory & hazard test. Off road test, on road test using 125cc bike. Full A1 licence. Restricted to 125cc 14 BHP for 2 years.
* Age 19 CBT Provisional A2 motorcycle, Theory & hazard test. Off road test, on road test using 33 BHP bike greater than 500cc. Full A2 licence. Restricted to 47 BHP for 2 years.
* Age 21 CBT Provisional A motorcycle, Theory & hazard test. Off road test, on road test using 47 BHP bike greater than 600cc. Full A licence.
* Unrestricted Direct Access will remain but at age 24 years.

It sounds complicated.... It is complicated.... Look, suppose you are 17 years old and you want a bike licence.

* There's 3 steps, at 17, 19, 21 years old.
* Each step involves theory, off-road, and on-road tests.
* Each step must be taken on a bigger bike than you are currently allowed to ride, and practiced for under Instructor supervision.

A wicked but subtle change (buried in the small print) is the proposed minimum test vehicles. 500cc bikes don't exist (they're 496 or 498). We suspect simple ignorance is the reason why every "learner bike" in existence will be useless from 2011 at huge expense to the public / training industry.

A rather discriminatory effect is that the existing A2 route for learners is abolished. There will be no way for a smaller or disadvantaged person to get a full licence anymore.(2 years experience on a 33bhp to then upgrade automatically). The disadvantaged will have to cope with 650cc (?) on test, like it or lump it. For even a new A2 it will be a 550cc (?) bike which will be rather big and heavy for small people in the new off road test.

It'll all get very expensive and difficult. It's forecast that the ultimate reduction in the number of new riders going through the new system will be as much as 60% Yes, less than half as many as at present. Add the cost to Training Centres of dealing with the 2nd directive in October 2008, only to have to re-equip for 2011 and less than half as many customers it's doubtfull that there will be many bike shops or training schools surviving anyway.

It's a flippin nightmare

[LoopyLee]

I found this as well... plus a way of writing to your MP about it....

It'll all get very expensive and difficult. It's forecast that the ultimate reduction in the number of new riders going through the new system will be as much as 60%.


Yes, less than half as many as at present. Add the cost to Training Centres of dealing with the 2nd directive in 2008, only to have to re-equip for 2011 and less than half as many customers it's doubtfull that there will be many bike shops or training schools surviving anyway.

What can we do?

Contact your MP / MEP. Its too late to change the Eurpoean Directive, but there is some flexibility in how each Member State implements it.
We really like WriteToThem - enter your postcode; type into a form; sends it online for you; ....
If you prefer to use good old snail-mail: Find your MP's address here and your MEP's addresses here - you will find you have more than one covering your area.
Do it.

No, now. Just do it now. You know how to cut-and-paste.....
Use this form letter as your starting point. But please change it. Multiple copies of exactly the same letter don't have such a big impact. If you re-write in your own words, they take much more notice. It means they actually have to read it, understand what you are asking, and reply sensibly!
Suggested Form letter - edit as you like.....
Your Name
Your Address
Date
.......MP
House of Commons,
London.
SW1A 0AA
or
.......MEP,
European Parliament,
Bat Altiero Spinelli,
13G350,
60 rue Wiertz B-1047
Brussels
Belgium
or their UK address.
Dear .......,

Re: Draft Third EC Driving Licence Directive

I wish to bring to your attention my concerns over the draft Third EC Driving Licence Directive which, in its existing form, will adversely affect the future of motorcycling. I ask for your support in influencing its progress through The Council of Ministers in December.
The Directive is intended to improve road safety by introducing greater consistency to driver licensing, addressing fraud and keep unsafe drivers off the road. It also includes extensive proposals relating to motorcycling which, although intended to improve safety, have been poorly thought out, ignore motorcycle safety research like the Motorcycle Accident In-Depth Study (MAIDS) and are not likely to be effective. I support measures to improve road safety, particularly for motorcycles, but can see no benefit from such ill-conceived proposals. The motorcycling measures include:

• The introduction of three categories of motorcycle A1 (<125cc/11kW) A2 (<35 kW) A (>35 kW)
• Access to category A1 from age 16 (17 in the UK ) and minimum ages to A2 and A subject to rigid two-year intervals.
• A requirement for testing or training to progress from each category.
• Direct Access to category A from age 24

The existing measures under the Second EC Driving Licence Directive, while criticised by riders and the enforcement community for their complexity, at least allow progress from category A1 via two years experience on an up to 25 kW motorcycle to category A and offers Direct Access at age 21. If there are any safety issues they are related to Direct Access by riders in their 30s and older which is already to be reviewed under The Government's Motorcycling Strategy.
The 3rd EC Driving Licence Directive's proposals will produce an even more complex motorcycle licensing process that will be neither understandable nor enforceable and will make motorcycling less accessible with no safety benefit. This flies in the face of The UK Government's Motorcycling Strategy which seeks to mainstream motorcycling for transport and leisure while making positive recommendations to improve safety without compromising its accessibility. It also runs counter to the EC's stated intent to introduce legislation only where there is a clear and demonstrable benefit in doing so.
In view of this, the UK 's motorcycling community - including the British Motorcyclists Federation, the Motorcycle Action Group UK, and the wider Federation of European Motorcyclists' Associations - considers that the motorcycling proposals should be deleted from the 3rd EC Driving Licence Directive and revisited in not less than three years time.
By then interventions already in progress will have taken effect and more research can be taken into account to inform a more meaningful directive.
The UK 's motorcycling community has responded to a national consultation and met with representatives of the Driving Standards Agency and the Department for Transport which sits on the Council of Ministers. The DfT representatives claim that there is no room to manoeuvre over motorcycling issues with no support from other national governments. We disagree and consider that the motorcycling issues have been subsumed by other aspects of the directive for which they have shown greater enthusiasm.
May I ask you to use your influence to persuade the UK Minister and DfT representatives to call for the motorcycling provisions to be deleted from the 3rd EC Driving Licence Directive so that they may be properly considered at a more appropriate time?
I await your comments with interest.
Yours faithfully,
Your Signature

[LoopyLee]

Here's more

PS There are also MSPs - Members of the Scottish Parliament.
Write to yours if you wish, and if you know they are sympathetic to bikers - but they have less influence on EC directives.
Look up who it is here
Write to them at:
......... MSP
The Scottish Parliament
Edinburgh EH99 1SP
PPS There's also Welsh and London Assemblies.
If you have regular contact with your representative there, it might be worth having a word, but they have even less effect at EU level.

[Merlin]

Thoughts..
I'm all for brushing up on skills, someone telling me to get a retest is another matter entirely.
The whole psyche of having to proving capable again of piloting your pride and joy regardless of how many wheels it has is plain wrong.
I have similar opinion on speed cameras (oh no ) In that I believe its your responsability to use the road and continue to use the road in a responsible manner and having someone nanny you by pointing cameras at you is missing the point
imo a retest is reinforcing the nanny state. We should be encoraged to drive/ride at all times with responsablility and continually inmprove especially defensive with regards to m'cycle not just pass a "test"
Plus the old cc rears its lame head again , who cares if the cubic capacity of your bike is 50cc or 5000cc I'd like to add I was nearly fekin killed on the back of a c50 stepthrough..well I could have had a very nasty moment...evil deathtraps in my book ...fiirst thing that touches down is my fekin left foot ok i was 17 a long time ago :idk:

[vville123]

Shoot, I was at the DMV (in the states) the other day. And they let some lady 80-90 years old retake the freaking eye exam like 20 times till she passed. I was sitting there in gear, as the crowd grew larger waiting for her. I just shouted "thats why I'm going to get hit and die, right there".

While writing this I heard a horn/crunch out my window. Car just rear ended a truck, hence my point.

Fine line, too many laws, not enough.

[StrumminRonin]

Originally Posted by vville123

"thats why I'm going to get hit and die, right there".

Yup. That little old woman is going to be a danger to herself and those around her, and letting her retest till she passes is as irresponsible as saying to people that they need not worry about protection.

Originally Posted by vville123

Fine line, too many laws, not enough.

All of these stupid laws dance around the problem and not one of the grab problem by the balls *because there isn't a co-ordinated system that support these ideas that are meant to do good*.

If you break a rule, you get punished, but the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

If you go to school, you don't necessarily get an education.

You can have a kid at 16 (may e different in some countries) but you can't get an alcoholic drink at the bar.

You can be employed, but some could often get away with doing hardly any work... and some dumbass endup working their fingers to the bone...

[vville123]

Originally Posted by StrumminRonin

You can be employed, but some could often get away with doing hardly any work

You mean like a politician?

[dr256]

Thursday is European elections polling day people - USE YOUR VOTE

You don't vote, you can't complain.

[vville123]

Originally Posted by dr256

Thursday is European elections polling day people - USE YOUR VOTE

You don't vote, you can't complain.

I'll speak just for voting in the states, but most the time I want to vote for none of the above. It's always more of the same, no matter what party takes the seat.

If I'm stuck in the desert and have not eaten in days and I walk into you. You say I have two sandwiches and I can have my pic. But there both made out of sh*t, I'm not going to choose either one.

Which is alot like voting these days, which one going to to f*ck you the least.

[dr256]

Originally Posted by vville123

Which is alot like voting these days, which one going to to f*ck you the least.

None of the above is like not voting. Some twat still gets in but even less people have voted for them.

These particular elections are for members of the European parliament and there are parties standing that are specifically against the European parliament, so really we have the chance to turn your proverbial **** sandwich back into a nice dainty cucumber one!

Please people in the UK, don't fall the Sun newspapers campaign to get you all to vote "none of the above." This is specifically due to the rise of independent parties and an attempt to gain further power for the conservative party...

[vville123]

Sorry just speaking from the my point of view in the states.

[dr256]

no need for apologies my friend - you are quite right!
9 times out of 10 all we do get is a **** sandwich.....and given the recent load of crap going on here in the UK all we are getting at the moment is the **** without the bread!

[vville123]

Originally Posted by dr256

no need for apologies my friend - you are quite right!
9 times out of 10 all we do get is a **** sandwich.....and given the recent load of crap going on here in the UK all we are getting at the moment is the **** without the bread!

Try a tea party, oh wait. Never mind, JK

[LoopyLee]

Originally Posted by vville123

Try a tea party, oh wait. Never mind, JK

Brilliant comment... and worth rep!!!