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post #1 of 64 Old 02-26-2017, 8:26 AM Thread Starter
 
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Graduated licensing

You bought a 1000cc motorcycle as your first bike?
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post #2 of 64 Old 02-27-2017, 1:01 PM
 
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Re: Honda CBR1000RR 06' smoking when rev and idle is uneven. PLEASE HELP!!! :)

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Originally Posted by CBR929RRY View Post
You bought a 1000cc motorcycle as your first bike?
600 or 1000, what's the difference?

I started on a 600, but if I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't recommend it.

-2006 CBR1000RR- Jardine RT-1 CF, GP Shift rearsets, GP Suspensions 20mm revalve, Penske 8987 triple clicker
-2002 CBR600F4i (was mine and now hers)
Ohlins, Racetech, Showa custom Suspension

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post #3 of 64 Old 02-27-2017, 10:30 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Honda CBR1000RR 06' smoking when rev and idle is uneven. PLEASE HELP!!! :)

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Originally Posted by Jaybird180 View Post
600 or 1000, what's the difference?

I started on a 600, but if I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't recommend it.
I think you just answered your own question.

This is one of those things people outside the USA find amusing; that anyone can legally ride a supersports motorcycle as a learner rider in the USA.
Australia requires about 3 years of riding (depending on state) on less than 659cc capacity motorcycles AND below a certain power/weight ratio before. After the probationary period you can ride whatever you want. Licensing is graduated depending on age and past road experience. Certain older 2-strokers like the Honda NSR250 are also prohibited for learners due to their power delivery.

I think the laws in UK are stricter, and probably the rest of Europe. Definitely Japan.
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post #4 of 64 Old 02-27-2017, 10:39 PM
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Re: Honda CBR1000RR 06' smoking when rev and idle is uneven. PLEASE HELP!!! :)

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Originally Posted by CBR929RRY View Post
I think you just answered your own question.

This is one of those things people outside the USA find amusing; that anyone can legally ride a supersports motorcycle as a learner rider in the USA.
Australia requires about 3 years of riding (depending on state) on less than 659cc capacity motorcycles AND below a certain power/weight ratio before. After the probationary period you can ride whatever you want. Licensing is graduated depending on age and past road experience. Certain older 2-strokers like the Honda NSR250 are also prohibited for learners due to their power delivery.

I think the laws in UK are stricter, and probably the rest of Europe. Definitely Japan.
That is because our laws are far different than yours, just as how our government is setup. You don't get a federal drivers license, you get one from a state. Vehicles are not registered federally either, they are registered at the state level.

Does your country also force new drivers into an econobox or could they drive a supercar? I find it odd in that some countries have GDLS's but it is only for motorcycles. The ones that use displacement as the sole basis is also quite odd given that displacement doesn't mean power. If that were the case, HD's would be outrunning everything.
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post #5 of 64 Old 02-27-2017, 10:41 PM
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Re: Graduated licensing

Topic moved to it's own thread.
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post #6 of 64 Old 02-28-2017, 12:05 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Honda CBR1000RR 06' smoking when rev and idle is uneven. PLEASE HELP!!! :)

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Originally Posted by lanbrown View Post
That is because our laws are far different than yours, just as how our government is setup. You don't get a federal drivers license, you get one from a state. Vehicles are not registered federally either, they are registered at the state level.

Does your country also force new drivers into an econobox or could they drive a supercar? I find it odd in that some countries have GDLS's but it is only for motorcycles. The ones that use displacement as the sole basis is also quite odd given that displacement doesn't mean power. If that were the case, HD's would be outrunning everything.
Firstly - good idea on creating a separate thread.

There is no federal licence in Australia either - it's by state. However certain aspects of automotive licensing applies nationwide. Such as Heavy Vehicles.
If you read what I said: motorcycle licensing is based on displacement AND power/weight ratio., so yes using displacement as the sole basis is odd and that's not how the government does it. There is no federal registration here either.

Certain 2-strokers are also banned as an exception such as the NSR250 despite them being within displacement and power/weight ratio - reason is due to the difference in power delivery compared to 4-strokes. Probably based on evidence that young learner riders try and find loopholes, get something they eventually crash due to inexperience or unfamiliarity.

As for your second point; funnily enough learner drivers can drive a supercar since they would be supervised by a fully licensed driver in the process. This is another potential "loophole" but in practice it rarely happens because a $400,000 Supercar is obviously worth a hell of a lot more than a Superbike despite similar performance. How many parents would gladly handover the keys to a Ferrari to their son whilst they are learning? That being said I remember an incident where there was an accident with a learner driver behind the wheel of a Ferrari. Idiocy like this is what causes more paperwork and more regulations.

Probationary drivers are allowed to drive by themselves and hence are subject to restrictions - so in other words they can't drive whatever they want. They are restricted depending on power/weight ratio of the vehicle.

Leaving aside government regulations - the bigger question would be more along the lines of common sense. Is it reasonable to allow an inexperienced rider to learn on high powered motorcycles? The answer is a no. It's down to probability:

Likelihood of crash
1) Inexperience + high-power motorcycle
2) Experience + high-powered motorcycle

Out of a sample of 1000 riders in each group, how many more do you think would be crashing in the first group compared to second?

Seeing as most of the world follows graduated licensing including countries where most Superbikes come from...Japan and Italy, I'd say they are getting it right.

Oh...and Youtube videos are evidence enough for me that inexperienced riders should be nowhere near motorcycles north of 600cc.
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post #7 of 64 Old 02-28-2017, 12:21 AM
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Re: Honda CBR1000RR 06' smoking when rev and idle is uneven. PLEASE HELP!!! :)

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Originally Posted by CBR929RRY View Post
Oh...and Youtube videos are evidence enough for me that inexperienced riders should be nowhere near motorcycles north of 600cc.
Youtube videos in general show that many people should never have had kids to begin with. Further evidenced by the movie Idiocracy. Stupid people breeding and having stupid children.

If we take Youtibe videos, then we should get rid of the following:
Cars, motorcycles, skateboards, skates, guns, anything that explodes, chemicals, tools, among a long list of other items.
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post #8 of 64 Old 02-28-2017, 2:41 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Honda CBR1000RR 06' smoking when rev and idle is uneven. PLEASE HELP!!! :)

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Originally Posted by lanbrown View Post
Youtube videos in general show that many people should never have had kids to begin with. Further evidenced by the movie Idiocracy. Stupid people breeding and having stupid children.

If we take Youtibe videos, then we should get rid of the following:
Cars, motorcycles, skateboards, skates, guns, anything that explodes, chemicals, tools, among a long list of other items.
What about my points preceding the Youtube statement?
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post #9 of 64 Old 02-28-2017, 10:35 AM
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Re: Graduated licensing

Well, many HD riders wouldn't be able to buy a Harley if those rules were in place.

Two strokes haven't been here in a very longtime, so no need to worry about those.

If someone can go and buy a high performance car off the lot, but not a motorcycle, then why bother with the smaller market of the two? Are bikes cheaper? yes. But used powerful cars can be even cheaper.

If you want to live where people can tell you what you can and cannot buy, etc. be my guest. If someone wants to buy a 1000 and they kill themselves on it, they could do the same in a car, a smaller displacement motorcycle or even a scooter. Never underestimate the power of stupidity.
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post #10 of 64 Old 02-28-2017, 10:43 AM
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Re: Graduated licensing

Test drive car crash:

Didn't even get off the lot:

Now for the obvious. Just because someone has experience doesn't mean they are safe either.
Elderly person crashing into cars on a dealer lot:

That person had years of experience driving.
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post #11 of 64 Old 02-28-2017, 1:10 PM
 
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Re: Graduated licensing

Ian I am 100% with 929rry on this, I understand your point when it comes to large HD's and metric cruisers but how can you and Jay say there is no higher risk between a 600 and a litre bike??? I love a spirited discussion but this one is just seems ridiculous, there is nothing to argue, it is what it is.......litre bikes are more dangerous in the hands of novice riders...case closed.
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post #12 of 64 Old 02-28-2017, 1:55 PM
 
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Re: Graduated licensing

Quote:
Originally Posted by lanbrown View Post
Topic moved to it's own thread.
Ah! You're the one who did that!

-2006 CBR1000RR- Jardine RT-1 CF, GP Shift rearsets, GP Suspensions 20mm revalve, Penske 8987 triple clicker
-2002 CBR600F4i (was mine and now hers)
Ohlins, Racetech, Showa custom Suspension

Because 12,000 RPM makes me feel better
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post #13 of 64 Old 02-28-2017, 2:11 PM
 
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Re: Graduated licensing

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Originally Posted by oxman1196 View Post
Ian I am 100% with 929rry on this, I understand your point when it comes to large HD's and metric cruisers but how can you and Jay say there is no higher risk between a 600 and a litre bike??? I love a spirited discussion but this one is just seems ridiculous, there is nothing to argue, it is what it is.......litre bikes are more dangerous in the hands of novice riders...case closed.
Seems obvious, then where's the data? Good luck with that one. I can show you data showing the opposite...but you first. HA!

There was a study years ago that tested the obvious assumption that "speed kills". In the study, they removed the speed limit from a US highway. As expected, deaths spiked up, but what no one expected is that they then went down below where they had been before. They also noted that people became more courteous drivers (no idea how they got data on that).
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-2006 CBR1000RR- Jardine RT-1 CF, GP Shift rearsets, GP Suspensions 20mm revalve, Penske 8987 triple clicker
-2002 CBR600F4i (was mine and now hers)
Ohlins, Racetech, Showa custom Suspension

Because 12,000 RPM makes me feel better
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post #14 of 64 Old 02-28-2017, 2:36 PM
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Re: Graduated licensing

Quote:
Originally Posted by oxman1196 View Post
Ian I am 100% with 929rry on this, I understand your point when it comes to large HD's and metric cruisers but how can you and Jay say there is no higher risk between a 600 and a litre bike??? I love a spirited discussion but this one is just seems ridiculous, there is nothing to argue, it is what it is.......litre bikes are more dangerous in the hands of novice riders...case closed.
Case closed? You haven't even presented your argument yet. If you were an attorney, you would either be:
1) Fired
2) Disbarred
3) Sued by your clients
4) All of the above

You have provided no evidence that proves your point. Provide a research study.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaybird180 View Post
Seems obvious, then where's the data? Good luck with that one. I can show you data showing the opposite...but you first. HA!

There was a study years ago that tested the obvious assumption that "speed kills". In the study, they removed the speed limit from a US highway. As expected, deaths spiked up, but what no one expected is that they then went down below where they had been before. They also noted that people became more courteous drivers (no idea how they got data on that).
+1
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post #15 of 64 Old 02-28-2017, 2:58 PM
 
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Re: Graduated licensing

I didn't find the one that I referred to earlier, but this seems interesting and makes a point at the end about human social structures and government regulation
Do We Need Speed Limits to Drive Safely?

-2006 CBR1000RR- Jardine RT-1 CF, GP Shift rearsets, GP Suspensions 20mm revalve, Penske 8987 triple clicker
-2002 CBR600F4i (was mine and now hers)
Ohlins, Racetech, Showa custom Suspension

Because 12,000 RPM makes me feel better
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