[lanbrown]

What a crock. A dirt bike is not legal on the road, are they banning them too? So using the verbage of "In our view, if it's not legal to ride on the street, it shouldn't be legal to sell," is a crock.

As for this moron:
"It's especially important to the Latino community," Sousa said. "Please take these things off the street so our children don't die on them."

Then don’t buy them for the kids! The government doesn’t need to make decisions for you. If you need someone to control your life, move to China.

[.OrgOwner]

Originally Posted by lanbrown

Then don’t buy them for the kids! The government doesn’t need to make decisions for you. If you need someone to control your life, move to China.

For this comment I was forced to add to your reputation - well said.

[dicknose]

The problem is when 99% of its use is illegal and anti-social then its probably a good thing to ban them.
I guess having them on sale but illegal to use in most places wasnt working.

I do agree that laws arent a replacement for responsible parenting, but I think this is probably a bigger issue than that. Its not just that that some kids are getting hurt, its more that the use of things is nearly always illegal, dangerous and annoying to others - a pretty reason to ban something.

Now maybe it could have been done by banning their use in suburban areas and leaving them to be legal in dedicated areas (a bit like most offroad riding)

[FB1000inPA]

Philly, City of Brotherly Love. I rather call it 'cest pool.

[dicksneeed]

So much for a free country. My 8 year old son wants one but as a good parent I'll take him to a local pocket bike track here in CA. Any one remember the old YSR's? I heard you cant register them any more but if they've been registered continuously you can still buy them and ride them on streets.

[dicknose]

Originally Posted by dicksneeed

So much for a free country.

There are plenty of things that are banned. How does one more change the country from free to restricted?

If you think you are free to do anything then you are sadly deluded.

[lanbrown]

Originally Posted by .OrgOwner

For this comment I was forced to add to your reputation - well said.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by dicknose

The problem is when 99% of its use is illegal and anti-social then its probably a good thing to ban them.
I guess having them on sale but illegal to use in most places wasnt working.

I do agree that laws arent a replacement for responsible parenting, but I think this is probably a bigger issue than that. Its not just that that some kids are getting hurt, its more that the use of things is nearly always illegal, dangerous and annoying to others - a pretty reason to ban something.

Now maybe it could have been done by banning their use in suburban areas and leaving them to be legal in dedicated areas (a bit like most offroad riding)

Then call the cops, have them confiscate the pocket bikes and the kids and parents learned a lesson. If they buy one and then lose it to the police, they may not buy another one to replace it. So why punish all for the actions of a few? I would not say 99% are used illegially. Also, 98% of all statistics are just pulled out of the air.

[dicknose]

Originally Posted by lanbrown

Then call the cops, have them confiscate the pocket bikes and the kids and parents learned a lesson. If they buy one and then lose it to the police, they may not buy another one to replace it. So why punish all for the actions of a few?

Do the cops have the power to confiscate them?
If they arent illegal then I dont think the cops could take them.
Maybe give you a ticket for their illegal use, or tell you to stop.
From what Ive seen locally the best the cops do is drive by and get the people to either hide or stop for a while - they are back out buzzing up and down within the hour.

And if you dont like it use your democratic rights and vote in politicians who will repeal the law!

I would not say 99% are used illegially. Also, 98% of all statistics are just pulled out of the air.

Yeah I pulled a number out of the air.
But Id still argue that the vast majority are used illegally, the problem being that there are very few areas you can use them.

[lanbrown]

Originally Posted by dicknose

Do the cops have the power to confiscate them?
If they arent illegal then I dont think the cops could take them.
Maybe give you a ticket for their illegal use, or tell you to stop.
From what Ive seen locally the best the cops do is drive by and get the people to either hide or stop for a while - they are back out buzzing up and down within the hour.

And if you dont like it use your democratic rights and vote in politicians who will repeal the law!



Yeah I pulled a number out of the air.
But Id still argue that the vast majority are used illegally, the problem being that there are very few areas you can use them.

How about this, they are being used on a public road and they are not legal for the public road. The kid wouldn't have ID, so a ticket is a little bit hard. The police could impound it and take the kid in and call the parents. Impounding would be the same as confiscating. Then what you do is make the fine $1,000 and the parents will either need to spend the cash to get it back or just never go get it and then it becomes the property of the impound yard. Problem solved.

So the police are not doing their job. So why create new legislation when the police are not enforcing the current laws? More laws is NOT the answer.

[praylood_93]

how the hell could they ban you from registering a bike that was street legal when it was made? I'm talking about YSRs. I have one (project) and if I can't register it I might as well toss it out. For city commuting you couldn't find something that was better on gas. Oh but the evil of two stroke gas, people falling down dead everywhere from a little oil stink. gimme a break.

[dicknose]

Originally Posted by lanbrown

How about this, they are being used on a public road and they are not legal for the public road. The kid wouldn't have ID, so a ticket is a little bit hard. The police could impound it and take the kid in and call the parents. Impounding would be the same as confiscating. Then what you do is make the fine $1,000 and the parents will either need to spend the cash to get it back or just never go get it and then it becomes the property of the impound yard. Problem solved.

So the police are not doing their job. So why create new legislation when the police are not enforcing the current laws? More laws is NOT the answer.

What you described is probably the current situations in most places - its illegal on the road or footpath/sidewalk. But its also hard for cops to catch the people, it could be kids and then you get into other issues of cops having to deal with minors.

So whats wrong with bringing in more laws if the current laws are proving hard to enforce?

[lanbrown]

There are no issues in dealing with minors. Take them to the police station and have the parents come get them. Guess what, problem solved. Parents won't like having to go get their kids at the police station.

Next, try a unmarked car. If you know where the kids ride them, realy easy to send someone over.

Most laws are not enforced, but people want new ones. More laws just mean more that are not enforced. Why not just change the existing law? Since this country deals with money, make the fine $500 for riding one on public roads. Get a few kids down to police station and give the parents the tickets when they come to pick them up. Do you think little Billy will be out riding his pocket bike the next day? When one parent tells another, pretty soon none of the kids will be out on the road with them.

What about all of the laws to help protect the stupid? Are you sure you want the government controlling every aspect of your life? There are countries like that and the citiziens yearn to leave.

[dicknose]

Originally Posted by lanbrown

Most laws are not enforced, but people want new ones. More laws just mean more that are not enforced.

Enforcing a ban on sales is probably easier to implement than catching people riding these bikes.

Why not just change the existing law? Since this country deals with money, make the fine $500 for riding one on public roads.

If the law isnt working then a bigger fine probably isnt going to help.

Are you sure you want the government controlling every aspect of your life? There are countries like that and the citiziens yearn to leave.

Im from a country that has a lot more of these sorts of laws and I dont see people rushing to leave.

Guns - very restricted, many are banned (you cant a pistol license)
You can be charged with carrying knife.

Drivers/riders can be randomly stopped by the police and checked for alcohol.

I see a law like this as sensible. If there is a problem with these bikes then ban them. Easier to do than getting police to turn up and not be able to find the people causing problems only for them to come back out 10 mins after the cops leave.

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by dicknose

The problem is when 99% of its use is illegal and anti-social then its probably a good thing to ban them.

As Winston Churchill said, "There are lies, damn lies and statistics!"

Originally Posted by dicknose

...I guess having them on sale but illegal to use in most places wasnt working.

It could be argued then: 'that even though it is illegal to steal the law isn't working. So, lets ban ownership of all the things that get stolen. That will stop those thieves sure enough.'

Or will it? They'll surely just go and find other things to steal. To put this in context, those individuals that are riding these pocket bikes in illegal areas are just going to find something else to use/do that will disturb the peace/kill themselves/others. So lets try to find the root cause of the problem.

Originally Posted by dicknose

I do agree that laws arent a replacement for responsible parenting...

Absolutely. So lets stop messing about looking for irrelevant things to change and focus on the real problem. Far too many people having children when they are not ready/ill-equipped or far too irresponsible to do so.

Originally Posted by dicknose

Now maybe it could have been done by banning their use in suburban areas and leaving them to be legal in dedicated areas (a bit like most offroad riding)

Agreed, along with strict enforcement of those laws already in place, QUALITY pre-parent planning and control, decent incentives to keep these bikes in a safe environment and you'll be on track. It will take a while to filter through, but as we've all seen anything worth doing takes time. We just need a little patience and perseverance.

[TattooedGQ]

Personally I'm not a fan of pocket bikes, for kids or adults.

Just for good measure here's an experience, The guys from Long Island will know where I'm talking about.

About 2 years ago, before my bike days, I took my 71 Camaro to Deer Park Avenue to go show all the "10 second" mustangs that they can lose to a 12 second Camaro....So I'm going northbound and some moron on a pocket bike wearing a half helmet, who appeared to be an adult by the size of him, pulls out into decent traffic and then makes a right onto a side street straight into an oncoming panel van. I was in the left lane so I didn't stop immediately, but I called 911 after pulling over. There was a crowd of people around the guy so I really didn't stick around. Considering the bike went under the van, and he was wearing a half helmet, you can imagine what happened to his face when it met the van.

Sooo basically the lack of responsibility and training that is typically observed with pocketbike riders, young and old kinda overshadows the fun aspect for me.

[dicknose]

Originally Posted by Surffrog

It could be argued then: 'that even though it is illegal to steal the law isn't working. So, lets ban ownership of all the things that get stolen. That will stop those thieves sure enough.'

Or will it? They'll surely just go and find other things to steal. To put this in context, those individuals that are riding these pocket bikes in illegal areas are just going to find something else to use/do that will disturb the peace/kill themselves/others. So lets try to find the root cause of the problem.

Thats a bad comparison.

A better one would be making tools used for breaking and entering illegal. They might have legal uses or simply possessing them doesnt mean you will use them illegally.
Hey - lots of places make them illegal as its easier to police. Catch someone with them even if they arent in the act but are doing something suspicious then you can make a reasonable assumption they are about to commit a crime.

How about banning spray can paint sales to under 18s - thats been done here. While it wont stop graffiti it helps.

Now will these people with these pocket bikes find other things to do?
Probably - but I doubt they will be as dangerous or anti-social.

I lived in a quiet street for 7 years and in the last year I was there some kids started riding these things up and down the road. They are a very annoying sound. Someone (not me) called the cops once and the cops drove in, the kids scampered and nothing happened.
If they couldnt easily get this bike would the kids do something else. Definitely.
Would it be something that would annoy the neighbourhood - probably not.

This isnt like trying to solve drug related thefts. There is no great underlying problem that needs solving. The problem is simply a combination of a stupid device and people without much common sense. You arent going to fix the people, its much easier to remove the other half of the problem.

[lanbrown]

Originally Posted by dicknose

Enforcing a ban on sales is probably easier to implement than catching people riding these bikes.

That is where you are wrong. You can leave Philly and go buy one. Buying them in Philly is illegal, but you can leave, buy it and bring it back. Wow, what a law.

[blue1000rr]

well im going to advocate exactly the opposite of this thread. if you are looking for good pocket bikes to screw around on look at one of these Blade Pocketbikes. i have this one and it's pretty fast and cheap. also very reliable

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by dicknose

Thats a bad comparison.

A better one would be making tools used for breaking and entering illegal. They might have legal uses or simply possessing them doesnt mean you will use them illegally.
Hey - lots of places make them illegal as its easier to police. Catch someone with them even if they arent in the act but are doing something suspicious then you can make a reasonable assumption they are about to commit a crime.

Actually, Dicknose, the comparison was sound when taken in context. The fear being that if we allow the build-up of laws, which end up being strictly enforced, the government's control becomes far too great. If we're lucky these new laws only end up costing more money and still being ineffective, usually because there are aren't enough police to enforce them in the first place.

Originally Posted by dicknose

How about banning spray can paint sales to under 18s - thats been done here. While it wont stop graffiti it helps.

This just adds substance to my argument.

Originally Posted by dicknose

Now will these people with these pocket bikes find other things to do?Probably - but I doubt they will be as dangerous or anti-social.

That remains to be seen. You see, things like this or the drug issue you raise are just too attractive to those who wish to entertain them. Therefore, there is no point in tightening laws on the premise that this action will stop the crime, because, as history has proved, it won't. So, surely the best thing to do is to contain the problem. That's why I believe these pocket bike riders will be far less of a problem if they are given specific areas to ride them as it is with dirt bike riding.

Originally Posted by dicknose

I lived in a quiet street for 7 years and in the last year I was there some kids started riding these things up and down the road. They are a very annoying sound. Someone (not me) called the cops once and the cops drove in, the kids scampered and nothing happened.

Again, this adds further evidence to my argument.

[giza]

too many f@#$heads out there riding these things down main roads without helmets or any safety gear.
Of course people get pissed off,nothing worse than a piece of chinese **** pocket bike going flat out at 15kmh down your street at 10.30pm on a weekday,why do you think people are pissed about these bikes.
Most of them are cheap **** bikes not worth the money you pay for them.
Cant even get spare parts for them.

[TattooedGQ]

[quote=giza;652814}Cant even get spare parts for them.[/quote]

speaking of which, I was in my local honda dealership yesterday getting some spare keys and they had a sign by parts that basically said if you get a pocket bike from pep boys etc dont bring it there. they "dont service disposable vehicles" I was friggin dying.

[dicknose]

Originally Posted by Surffrog

Actually, Dicknose, the comparison was sound when taken in context.

No - it was silly for the sake of it.
Saying we should ban ownership because it will stop stealing is taking it to a silly extreme.

The fear being that if we allow the build-up of laws, which end up being strictly enforced, the government's control becomes far too great.

Well seems the current laws arent strictly enforced or are too hard to enforce.
The argument is more about is it better to have a law that is easier to enforce but more widespread than one that is less restrictive but harder to enforce.

That remains to be seen. You see, things like this or the drug issue you raise are just too attractive to those who wish to entertain them.

I dont think Id put "riding pocketbikes" in the same class as drug use.

Therefore, there is no point in tightening laws on the premise that this action will stop the crime, because, as history has proved, it won't.

History?
Come on - you are just making that up.

While it might be true with some things, its not something you can just make a sweeping statement about and say its true in all cases.

Again, this adds further evidence to my argument.

How so?
It just shows that enforcing the current laws banning there use on roads doesnt work. Isnt that a good argument to change the method of attack.

[Doomwitha929]

When I first read the story I thought the idea was BS but the more I think about it the more I see the point. The Govt has to do what they can in what manner they can to solve the problem for the majority. It sucks not to be able to have a little toy bike but seriously that is far out weighed by the down side of them being on the streets. Imagine being an adult that has to work every day at 8am like many of us and having some punk running up and down your street all night with one. I work some weekends too so if I was woken up by some jerk on one at 6am on one Sat morning I had off I would be pissed too. The problem is aside from the damger of them no one has any respect for anyone else. If people would have enough respect and sense to keep them quiet, ride them away from homes and ride them durring acceptable hours of the day it would be less of an issue.
The Govt can't really regulate them or how they are used so they are left controlling the one aspect they can and that is the sale. If they were really smart they would require you to get some sort of registration which you would pay for (they make some money on it) then if you get cought riding it in banned areas or a dangerous manner they get to ticket you ( they make some more money) and all the costs would keep the pocket bike population down a little and more controlled.

[rokitt51]

I know a lot of people that actually ride the things at tracks. I have one for my son and i and have all kinds of fun on them. As far as some people that are supporting that ban because of nephews and whatever dying on the bikes by running into ice cream trucks and stuff like that, i am sorry for ur loss but that also goes as far as a parent teaching the kids some sort of responsibility with the equipment that is bought for them. Hell, why not ban fast cars because of the people that die in them each year because of their stupidity. Or the dirtbikes and go carts that kill kids and grown ups alike. I think not. Pretty soon they will be tryin to ban us sportbikers too. Oh yeah it commin.