Tiered Liscensing, what do you think??

Baketech · 02-28-2005, 2:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuss929

You would always fail the "Wave" test and would be only allowed to ride Harley's or Vespa's.

Or the fishing contest, and be relegated to casting from the bank....

Baketech · 02-28-2005, 2:21 PM

[crickets]

So anyway....I'm still waiting for that link to data showing that the tiered system is superior.....

Newfie TLR · 02-28-2005, 2:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baketech

A time based system is bunk imho.....if we wanna talk skills testing...then I am all ears....

Skills testing IS a part of a tiered system.

Right now, in the province I live in, before someone gets s full M license, he / she has to:

Pass a written test to ensure they are familiar with the rules of the road.
Pass a riding test (or satisfactorily complete an MSF course) to get to the next level of restrictions (Ie: roads in excess of 80 kms / hr, after dark, passenger allowed, etc)
Complete the Ministry road test (that includes tasting on a highway with a speed limit of 100 KMPH) or satisfactorily completes an advanced MSF course.

Now, I believe this is Skills Testing, don't you think??

But according to some of you guys, anyone who has never straddled 2 wheels should be able to buy whatever they want, right??

Baketech · 02-28-2005, 2:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newfie TLR

Skills testing IS a part of a tiered system.

Right now, in the province I live in, before someone gets s full M license, he / she has to:

Pass a written test to ensure they are familiar with the rules of the road.
Pass a riding test (or satisfactorily complete an MSF course) to get to the next level of restrictions (Ie: roads in excess of 80 kms / hr, after dark, passenger allowed, etc)
Complete the Ministry road test (that includes tasting on a highway with a speed limit of 100 KMPH) or satisfactorily completes an advanced MSF course.

Now, I believe this is Skills Testing, don't you think??

But according to some of you guys, anyone who has never straddled 2 wheels should be able to buy whatever they want, right??

The term "Tiered" system is generally used to describe one that classifies bikes according to displacement or horsepower.

Baketech · 02-28-2005, 2:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newfie TLR

But according to some of you guys, anyone who has never straddled 2 wheels should be able to buy whatever they want, right??

How about giving each person the opportunity to espouse their view instead of trying to pin them into your predetermined box....

luvtolean · 02-28-2005, 2:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baketech

A time based system is bunk imho.....if we wanna talk skills testing...then I am all ears....

I've been waiting for some reason. This is exactly how it should be IMO. Here in our socialist "state" we have a tiered system that is based on age, if you've taken MSF or not and displacement that issues M1(>175cc) and M2. It helps NOTHING! If you want to make sure people riding bikes are skilled, set the test up as such.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baketech

The term "Tiered" system is generally used to describe one that classifies bikes according to displacement or horsepower.

Or riders according to age or years with a certain license.

Newfie TLR · 02-28-2005, 3:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baketech

How about giving each person the opportunity to espouse their view instead of trying to pin them into your predetermined box....

How do you mean Bake?

Newfie TLR · 02-28-2005, 3:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baketech

The term "Tiered" system is generally used to describe one that classifies bikes according to displacement or horsepower.

Agreed, but in this case we have a Socialistic Government who's fence sitting on the issue. The system we have here isn't a real true "Tiered" system, just a make-believe one.

Here, (and on your side of the border, I believe) anyone with no experience can still go out and buy whatever displacement and horsepower he wants. That is exactly my issue.

Bake, call this hypothetical if you wish, and Luvtolean, call it stupid if you wish, but there is no way anyone with no motorcycle experience has the skill set necessary to handle modern sport bikes.

Baketech · 02-28-2005, 3:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newfie TLR

Agreed, but in this case we have a Socialistic Government who's fence sitting on the issue. The system we have here isn't a real true "Tiered" system, just a make-believe one.

Here, (and on your side of the border, I believe) anyone with no experience can still go out and buy whatever displacement and horsepower he wants. That is exactly my issue.

Bake, call this hypothetical if you wish, and Luvtolean, call it stupid if you wish, but there is no way anyone with no motorcycle experience has the skill set necessary to handle modern sport bikes.

So explain why your system is better....and why your insurance is so high....

luvtolean · 02-28-2005, 3:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newfie TLR

Bake, call this hypothetical if you wish, and Luvtolean, call it stupid if you wish, but there is no way anyone with no motorcycle experience has the skill set necessary to handle modern sport bikes.

A tiered system, as you envision it, has no way of proving skill or experience!

Just test it. Don't mandate age. Don't mandate years with a certain license. Just test to see if they can ride or not. No new laws are needed. The DMV, or whatever you call it up there, just needs to change their incredibly stupid test.

Focusing on paperwork is a bureaucrat's way of dealing with a problem.

Newfie TLR · 02-28-2005, 3:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baketech

So explain why your system is better.......snip

Ahhhhhhh, I didn't say it was better. True Tiered System?? IMHO, yes, would work better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baketech

snip....and why your insurance is so high....

That is probably for 2 reasons:

The low value of the Canadian dollar compared to yours
The fact that insurance companies are permitted to rape us freely as they wish.

Here's an example of the second point:

In Michigan (I can't speak for the rest of the country), if you have 1 licensed rider in a house, but he / she owns 2 bikes, he pays full premiums on the highest rated bike, with a token charge on the second. I mean, you can only ride one at a time, and they understand this.

Now, here in the land of Taxes, and I'm speaking personal experience here, I am the only licensed rider in the house. I pay $937 / yr on the TLR, and the Sprint should be $906 / yr, but because insurance companies here are so generous, they gave me a $50 multi-bike discount, so the Sprint is a bargain at $856.

Baketech · 02-28-2005, 3:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newfie TLR

Ahhhhhhh, I didn't say it was better. True Tiered System?? IMHO, yes, would work better.

Again...show me where it works and I am all ears....

Baketech · 02-28-2005, 3:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newfie TLR

[*]The fact that insurance companies are permitted to rape us freely as they wish.

Exactly what's wrong with a tiered system...it villifies motorcycles by type and class, and gives the insurance companies a government mandate to ream you.....

Red Rider · 02-28-2005, 4:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newfie TLR

Holy Snappin' Forums, Batman, you could have waited until I finished the post!!!

How in Hell could you have possibly did that so quick??? I did a search on "Tiered Liscensing" and not one hit.

Maybe if you spelled "licensing" right you'd get more results!

*Mo Noyz* · 02-28-2005, 4:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baketech

So explain why your system is better....and why your insurance is so high....

Don't know if the system is better. Theoretically it "sounds" better. But that, in and of itself, sends up a bigtime red flag.

As for the insurance, don't bikes cost much more in places like Canada and Australia? I mean, all monetary systems being equal, I thought bikes in those countries simply cost more. If true, that would explain the insurance rates.

Newfie TLR · 02-28-2005, 4:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baketech

Exactly what's wrong with a tiered system...it villifies motorcycles by type and class, and gives the insurance companies a government mandate to ream you.....

OK, let me get this straight. You are now blaming our insurance woes on tiered systems, but yet we don't have a true tiered system here!!

OK, now I have it figured out. You are dead against (for some reason) any type of tiered systems to the point where you have an extreme predjudice against them so bad that you blame them for something they had no part in!!!

You also believe that tiered systems are to be blamed for the Classification of different types of motorcycles.

Hey Petey, Bake could teach you a few things about being a bigot!!!

Newfie TLR · 02-28-2005, 4:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Rider

Maybe if you spelled "licensing" right you'd get more results!

Picky picky picky.

Are you releted to my wife??

Bigbird · 02-28-2005, 5:22 PM

Not sure about the rest of Canada... but in Quebec insurance costs are generaly lower than Ontario. The only reason for this is the "Personnal/equipement" insurance part of the policy is not paid ou to the insurance companies. Insurance companies only insure the hardware. Actually.. the vehical. They do not insure the driver or pedestrian/other driver in the advent of an accident. The SAQ (Quebec Automobile Society) is a provincial entity that manages everyting with an engine and wheels that uses public roads or needs a license plate. We have a "No fault" system here that makes it impossible to drag a drunk driver into court and wipe him clean of all of his assests. If you get into an accident here, the Province will "take care" of you.

My 02 Blackbird cost me 800$ taxes included for a year coverage. The RR will cost me about 1000$... The Bird would of cost me about 1100$ this year (prices are going up!!) for full coverage (fire, theft, crash, 1,000,000$ liability, ...).

It is difficult to take sides on this. Obviously, nothing is perfect. In Quebec, If you do not insure a vehical for two years straight, your are done for it! You will no longer exist... so if you buy a car, they will handle your "account" like a newbie driver and charge you whatever primium that is normal for a newbie driver to pay... This system somewhat works... obviously, if you store your bike (and pay a small insurance primium) for 10 years and decide to take a full coverage in 10 years on a new bike... the insurance company will think you have been riding for 10 years+. So.. the "market" makes it difficult for young drivers drive/ride at risk vehicals, not the goverment.

FYI.. in 1998 a new VFR would of cost me 4000$ / year to insure. 1 year later, it was 1600$ (at 25 years old), 3 years later it was 600$ (no claims/no tickets for car or bike).

Luc

Baketech · 02-28-2005, 5:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newfie TLR

OK, let me get this straight. You are now blaming our insurance woes on tiered systems, but yet we don't have a true tiered system here!!

OK, now I have it figured out. You are dead against (for some reason) any type of tiered systems to the point where you have an extreme predjudice against them so bad that you blame them for something they had no part in!!!

You also believe that tiered systems are to be blamed for the Classification of different types of motorcycles.

Hey Petey, Bake could teach you a few things about being a bigot!!!

I don't feel we have insurance woes...

I am not prejudiced against a Tier system...I already told you I would change my vote if you could show me where it's better than a non-tiered system....and thus far you have not...

Quit trying to put words in my mouth, and show me the data where tier is better and you will have my absolute attention....

Zeeman · 02-28-2005, 5:40 PM

I agree with a tiered licensing system, especially after seeing so many "newb trys to wheelie R1 and flips it" or "newb rides SV650 into a tree" type vids. Admittedly, the guy on the SV probably didn't even have a license,as I think the SV would be a great learners bike... but anyway, you get my point.

The one thing I don't like is the "based one years experience". Let's face it, it should be based more on km/miles ridden. in my first year of riding, I had done over 35000km. surely, that would make me more experienced than someone who had been riding for 4 years and only done 4000km...

The problem I see is that to monitor how many km/miles YOU actually ride, there would need to be some sort of hi tech electronic monitoring system hooked up to your bike that would ID you every time you took it for a ride, and then presented this device to the relevent authority at upgrade time. This, of course, would truly be a nanny state device, and would be a huge loss in terms of personal freedom, as I bet the data recorded would end up being a lot more than just miles ridden.

So, for the time being, time based tearing is the best solution I can see if tiered license systems are brought in..

Apart from, maybe... better riders education/training?

Z...

EDDIE110171 · 02-28-2005, 5:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baketech

The term "Tiered" system is generally used to describe one that classifies bikes according to displacement or horsepower.

I find if funny that quad's carry goverment requires that a 15 year old, who is 6 foot tall and has been riding for several years must ride a 90 cc quad. But in a year he can buy a liter bike. WTF.