Maby some of you Honda gurus can tell me why........

MrFurious · 05-29-2005, 4:00 PM

Why Honda in 2000-2003 made the CBR under 1000cc's? Everone else made thier big superbike 1000cc's except for Honda. Whats the story behind that?

nomad · 05-29-2005, 4:09 PM

CBR 929 would be a misnomer if it were 1000cc's.

SpikedLemon · 05-29-2005, 4:58 PM

Wasn't the history/lore that they were shooting for a 750 and they overbored the motor to 900 and kept rest of the bike as compact as possible?
The 929/954 were just a continuation of the 900 engine. The 1000 is a whole new bike.

stegen · 05-29-2005, 10:23 PM

the 1000rr is still only 998 ccs

TAZ · 05-29-2005, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFurious

Why Honda in 2000-2003 made the CBR under 1000cc's? Everone else made thier big superbike 1000cc's except for Honda. Whats the story behind that?

It's a 'philosophy thing'. The project leader for the 900RR/929RR/954RR (Tadao Baba, better known as Baba-san) believed - perhaps to a fault - that "light is right". He believed that by keeping the rest of the bike more compact and lighter than the competitors' bikes, that Honda could afford to give up a little displacement and still match the acceleration of the larger-bore bikes. His theory was that the smaller, lighter bike would handle better (think 600-like flickability), and that even if the power was similar, the lighter, smaller 900-ish bike would rule the class.

It worked, until the 1998 R1. In 2000, the 929 was a fine update for Honda's superbike entry, but the R1 had proved that it could be done with larger displacement. Suzuki then joined the party with the GSX-R1000, and then Kawi's ZX-10R upped the ante again. Honda stretched the 900's engine to 954 (what Honda believed to be the displacement limit for a reliable machine), before Baba-san retired and Honda finally went ~1000cc with the newest RR.

MN NICE · 05-30-2005, 2:20 AM

I think the Suk 1000 was only 988 cc's until this model year.

CBR929RE · 05-30-2005, 12:40 PM

well the 929/954 engine was a completely new engine from the 900rr. and most "1000cc" bikes aren't actually 1000ccs, more like 996-999. Just like most 600s are actually 599. Wouldn't it sound weird to have something such as a GSXR988 or GSXR599 (Honda has already used funny numbers like the 929 and 954 so it wouldn't be too far fetched for them to call it a CBR998RR)

phobiaphobe · 05-30-2005, 12:52 PM

How about 60 cubic inches?

SomeStrangeGuy · 05-30-2005, 11:13 PM

Wasn't the 900rr actually 916cc as well?

JAMI6989 · 05-31-2005, 1:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stegen

the 1000rr is still only 998 ccs

Maybe that's why it's so damn slow and can't win a race anymore? Ducati never had a problem being clear on exactly how many CCs their bikes have/had. 996/998/999, what's the big deal?

deftones156 · 05-31-2005, 1:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SomeStrangeGuy

Wasn't the 900rr actually 916cc as well?

Actually I believe it was 899cc from its conception until 1996 when it became 918cc.

SpookyjacK · 05-31-2005, 2:15 PM

600's are under 600cc for racing same with the 1000's

SpookyjacK · 05-31-2005, 2:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deftones156

Actually I believe it was 899cc from its conception until 1996 when it became 918cc.

I think you are correct

Pete · 05-31-2005, 3:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAMI6989

Ducati never had a problem being clear on exactly how many CCs their bikes have/had. 996/998/999

But those were all v-twins.

showmethebombs · 05-31-2005, 3:08 PM

simply put:

Honda was low on the CC's only because more motor = more weight. Weight = loss in flickability and speed. So the added fat would have to carried by the added HP, and the added HP would have to more than make up for the fat.

They were using the Less is more approach...yeah, it didn't work in any of the shootouts.

MrFurious · 05-31-2005, 6:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpookyjacK

600's are under 600cc for racing same with the 1000's

Yeah but they are usually just a cc or two off. Not 60 to 70.

cbr99xx · 05-31-2005, 8:33 PM

Might be that there used to be a 900 class... That Honda used to dominate, dare I say, even helped to create. (Open class power with middleweight weight)

Baba San's 900RR was an extremely light 900cc (+/- a few cc's) with the weight of a 600... (Actually when the CBR900RR was first introduced it was lighter than the CBR6).

Yamaha has had a 1000cc sport bike in the hunt for quite a few years (FZR1000) and was actually the leader in the "Super bike" category for a few years until dethroned by the light weight Honda.

Kawasaki tried with the ZX9 and it was a very nice bike with hella power BUT it was a porker. Suzuki continued to develop its award wining (Sportbike of the year in '93 (Motorcyclist)) GSXR750... it was heavy and didn't seem to have the power to weight ratio that the Honda was able to display. Suzuki did throw out a RF900... IMHO just to appease the media. The RF wasn't a bad bike but it wasn't up to the task of taking on the CBR. Yamaha stuck with its FZR1000, which was way overweight, and tried to develop the YZF750... This came out heavy. (We are talking street bikes here guys so, please, no one throw up a OW1 or equvil. in my face.

)

So.... Honda had introduced a 900cc motorcycle that would outperform any motorcycle out there. There was the ZX11 (heavy) the GSXR1100 (heavy) and the before mentioned Fizer.
Hell... Honda invented the light weight open class powered sport bike. So kiss Baba San's ass!!!!

BTW... Honda has the mindset that they let no outside influence change where the expect the Co. to go. (IMHO) So, as we have all been patiently waiting, we always expect great things from Honda.

MrFurious · 06-01-2005, 1:06 AM

thanks for the info cbr99xx

AndyL · 06-01-2005, 7:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deftones156

Actually I believe it was 899cc from its conception until 1996 when it became 918cc.

I think it was 893cc originally wasn't it?

deftones156 · 06-01-2005, 8:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyL

I think it was 893cc originally wasn't it?

Now that I've looked into it, you are correct sir!