This is why insurance is so costly:

Heavy-Dee · 07-16-2006, 2:45 PM

clutchslip · 07-16-2006, 3:07 PM

Now, since virtually all insurance studies are flawed, I will wager that this one is, too. I'll bet there is no accounting for the number of bikes sold or for the number of miles driven.

These bikes make both least likely lists.
Okay - Everybody, run out and buy one of the following:
1. Suzuki Savage
2. BMW R1200C
3. Honda Rebel Series

Then my rates will go done on my fireblade. Whoo-hoo.

Heavy-Dee · 07-16-2006, 3:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clutchslip

Now, since virtually all insurance studies are flawed,

Never heard that before. What makes insurance stuies flawed any more than some other type?

ihatecrashing · 07-16-2006, 4:18 PM

So they have a study to make you feel like it's okay to pay outrageous premiums for your bike. And because insurance companies are the only companies that are corrupt in this world.... duh!

I agree clutch, they probably are flawed. If they look at the raw numbers of crashes, i.e. 200 CBR's totaled versus 1 Suzuki Savage totaled, then yes, there are obviously more CBR's that are crashed, but if they look at percentages, i.e. 200 CBR's crashed/3500 sold = 5.7% crashed versus 1 Savage Crashed/ 10 sold = 10% crashed. Then CBR's are nearly 5% safer than a Savage.

Statistics can be played with so much, it is actually pretty scary!

Now if only I could make up some stats showing how my wife spends more money on make-up in a year than I would on a track bike....

KJ's RR · 07-16-2006, 6:25 PM

This is why I couldn't believe all the posts about "superbike" on speed stating that the show will cause ins imcrease. Insurance co.'s answer to STOCK HOLDERS, That's all they care about, look @ their 1/4 profit's they're right in line W/banks EVEN when they had RECORD payouts back in the 1 year of Midwestern Floods, west coast earthquakes & fires. They still had record profits.It's a fact. Ins are in business to MAKE $$$ & that's all. It's a nasty evil we have to have

My

nothing more

kawboy69 · 07-16-2006, 6:34 PM

Suzuks are #1 ther you go Hammer....Squids bike of choice..

SpikedLemon · 07-16-2006, 7:45 PM

Sweet!!!! I crashed the #1 bike that's least likely to crash!!!

ihatecrashing · 07-16-2006, 8:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpikedLemon

Sweet!!!! I crashed the #1 bike that's least likely to crash!!!

How did you ever manage that?!? According to stats, maybe you should buy a lottery ticket, and when you win, split the winnings with me for suggesting the idea...

clutchslip · 07-16-2006, 9:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kawboy69

Suzuks are #1 ther you go Hammer....Squids bike of choice..

It may have nothing to do with "squids" since it is also the #1 bike sold. (See ihatecrashing's example of what I am talking about.)
Remember for years they told us "fifty-five saves lives", until a real study was done that proved that was bull-rear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpikedLemon

Sweet!!!! I crashed the #1 bike that's least likely to crash!!!

Talent baby.

I think I have some of those tendencies, too.

Scout · 07-17-2006, 2:19 AM

Progressive can bite me.

And statistic's are "Bullshit":

Penn & Teller: Bullshit!: Numbers - TV.com

clutchslip · 07-17-2006, 2:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scout

Progressive can bite me.

And statistic's are "Bullshit":

Penn & Teller: Bullshit!: Numbers - TV.com

this was a great episode

rb1 · 07-17-2006, 1:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihatecrashing

Statistics can be played with so much, it is actually pretty scary!

No. Statistics are simply numbers that record what happened. The problem is not with statistics; it is with their misinterpretation by the ignorant masses, and with their misapplication by dishonest people with ulterior motives. (I don't think either applies to Progressive in this case.)

The Progressive article cited above says it was a "study of claims data on more than two million motorcycles insured over the past three years by The Progressive Group." This means that, of the group of motorcyclists who chose to use Progressive insurance in the past 3 years, the bikes with the highest number of (crashes/thefts) were..."

If that group of motorcyclists accurately represents all motorcyclists, then you can generalize this to all motorcyclists. If all types of bikes rode the same number of miles (on average), then you could conclude something about the per-mile probability of crashing. If, ... (whatever)

The good news in this study is that, of the 5 most often crashed bikes, CBR's crashed the least, and they were only stolen third-most often, and therefore for any given person, they will probably cost less to insure at Progressive than (for example) a GSX-R, which is #1 in crashing and theft.

onevcs · 07-17-2006, 1:14 PM

I could have guessed that same information without spending the money on a study.

ihatecrashing · 07-17-2006, 9:34 PM

rb1, I stand corrected.... I guess I should have said,"The numbers put into statistical equations can be adjusted and changed to affect the result in such a way to favor one side or the other."

Is that better?

I hated Stats class.

Mojave954 · 07-17-2006, 11:56 PM

Ding, ding, ding we have a winner here folks....

If you choose a motorcycle that’s involved in more crashes or is stolen more often you’ll most likely pay more for insurance.

I wanna meet the genius that came up with that statement. I mean is revelations plain and simple.

SpikedLemon · 07-19-2006, 1:32 PM

On note that irks me is that they lump entire series of bikes into one category. The GSXR, for example, encompases 600, 750, 1000, 1100 versions and has been around for at least 10 years. The Suzuki 650Savage is a single bike that's been around ~6 years and that's it.

This goes beyond the whole: "The Suzuki Savage sold poorly" argument.

Purpdust · 07-19-2006, 1:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpikedLemon

On note that irks me is that they lump entire series of bikes into one category. The GSXR, for example, encompases 600, 750, 1000, 1100 versions and has been around for at least 10 years. The Suzuki 650Savage is a single bike that's been around ~6 years and that's it.

This goes beyond the whole: "The Suzuki Savage sold poorly" argument.

They also do not include the Number of each type of Bike insured. They really should use a #/1000 that have been stolen or totaled. Like you have said if they insure 3000 GSXRs and only 1000 CBRs then of course more GSXRs are going to be stolen and crashed.

These studies are so self serving

schnogg · 07-19-2006, 3:32 PM

I think that is is crazy to lump all honda sport bikes together. They generalize by saying "CBR series". It doesn't seem like they go to any length to look into the issue. It looks like they are looking for the most general rationalie for raising revenue. They don't make a distinction between 600,900,etc....

The CBR model prefix seems to be an insurance stigma associated with Honda GP bikes. I think Honda should drop the CBR to use something new.

rb1 · 07-19-2006, 3:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purpdust

They really should use a #/1000 that have been stolen or totaled. Like you have said if they insure 3000 GSXRs and only 1000 CBRs then of course more GSXRs are going to be stolen and crashed.

The article does not say anything about percentages of each bike. That does NOT mean they don't know the percentages, and that does not mean that the study referred to doesn't take percentages into account. However, if they did not do so, then the study is flawed.

Based on the words that appear on Progressive's web site, you can not draw any conclusions, one way or another.

If you want to know, rather than simply making up excuses to disregard what you've read, get a copy of the original study and read it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purpdust

These studies are so self serving

Who is being served what?

Purpdust · 07-19-2006, 4:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rb1

Who is being served what?

To me the study serves the insurance company (Progressive) by lumping all sportbike riders in the same basket. We are not all the same and we should not have to prove ourselves to them for 10 years before you get a decent rate.

I for one use State Farm, first they are friendly, easy to deal with and they do not classify thier policies by Sportbike, Cruiser, Tour. They only care about Value, Year, Displacement and Turbo.

ihatecrashing · 07-19-2006, 10:12 PM

Hey guys, I think rb1 works for progressive... (he seems to be a little sensitive about the subject)

tuffy6969 · 07-20-2006, 1:51 AM

Hmmm.....wonder why the GSXR is top on the list??? Could it be that all the squids and stunners ride them????

oldfogey · 07-20-2006, 7:34 AM

This is not an actuarial study about premium rates, it is a press release to gain publicity. The statistics are presented in a way a journalist will find interesting, not in a way a motorcyclist will find useful.

If you want to know how an insurance company rates you and your bike on risk, ask them to quote you a premium. There's no other way, because they won't give you (or their competitors) access to their proprietary database or how they analyse it, because that's a key competitive issue for them.

I've done this stuff as an actuarial student. You have to ask the questions in the right way:

What would be the risk of a claim (that's all they are interested in, though they'll split it by fire, theft, own damage and third party claims) and what would be the size of the claim for a person of this age, sex and type of motorcycle in this geographic region (post code in the UK)? Some will split per mile, or per mileage exposure per annum (risk period).

Biggest risk factors are age and region, then bike type.

ihatecrashing · 07-21-2006, 12:19 AM

Bravo Fogey!!!

MetalMilitia · 08-02-2006, 10:44 AM

Okay well first off you have progressive insurance phucking sucks. For one there probably the most expensive insurance company in the U.S. Secondly, if you have to file a claim it takes like 2 months for them to get off there ass and get your bike fixed.

Next Part.... You have a bracket of nice sport bikes that a lot of guys and girls like to have because of style and fun. So of course there going to be stolen over some hunk of **** honda rebel or savage, because frankly who the phuck wants them? Also the fact that if you go into any dealership what do you see more of? I believe you see about 2 to 3 GSX-R 600's, 750's, 1000's, Honda 600rr's, 1000rr's, and so on. Now look all the way in the back to the bike that