Make your own brakes?

06CBR1KMFNRR · 08-28-2007, 12:58 PM

I'm due for new brakes and I'm very interested in Dattaway's previous comments on making his own brakes.

I have two questions. The first is about the material you use for the pad. Where do you get it and is there a part number? I'm not familiar with the material and therefore I want to make sure I'm getting the same stuff you have already tested.

Second, which JB Weld do you use?

I thought about PM'ing you, but I think others may want this information and I couldn't find it in your earlier posts.

Thanks in advance.

cvc14 · 08-28-2007, 1:23 PM

I wish you luck but that is something that I would not want to TRY and make myself.

06CBR1KMFNRR · 08-28-2007, 1:32 PM

Quote:

The worst that can happen if it goes wrong is the material will burn or break away from the pad. I've been using my own brakes for several years and haven't had one fail yet. You'd be amazed at the temperatures required to burn JBWeld. I've only had one set wear enough to require a "refill."

I believe him.

tikki50 · 08-28-2007, 3:54 PM

dude just buy the pads you'd be an idiot to make your own brakes, if they fail, your dead. My life is certainly worth 50$ for some pads, come on.

saf · 08-28-2007, 4:03 PM

This thread is going to get funnay !.

Making exhaust, frame sliders, axle sliders, clip ons, rear sets, fairing stays .... etc, yea sure i agree. Brakes ?. Ok ill go as far as making your own braided lines, i run all my bikes on lines ive made, but the physical brake, thats crazy.

ConqSoft · 08-28-2007, 4:14 PM

I'm still trying to collect enough pencil erasers to mold my own tires.

Phadreus · 08-28-2007, 5:47 PM

Let the games begin?

The original post asked for technical information on how to fabricate / home brew brake pads, not judgments of the decision to proceed with said process. One would have to assume if "06CBR…" guy has enough where-with-all to MacGyver his own pads, he also should posses enough where-with-all to access all the risks and make a sound decision on weather to proceed. It's a simple equation he will be considering; money saved compared to potential money lost in cost of accident, (which would probably be: insurance deductibles, medical co-pays, legal fees and fines, law suits and so forth). Let’s give 06CBR some credit here, huh?

06CBR1KMFNRR · 08-28-2007, 6:16 PM

Thanks, Phadreus. I like dattaway's logic and I feel like it's not really a stretch. I understand all of your concerns, but I believe that the material the manufacturer uses is probably available in a cheaper form that requires some assembly.

I understand the importance of brakes, but I also understand that I'm just as qualified as a manufacturer to cut the material and bond it to the metal. If it really only costs 25 cents a pad to do so, that will save me $50 a year. It's not a lot, but it ads to the money that I save by doing the rest of the work on my bike.

I have over 1,000 hours flying on helicopters that I maintained. I'm pretty comfortable with my ability, and dattaway has already done the scary part.

SpikedLemon · 08-28-2007, 9:52 PM

I've taken brake pads off my car before only to have the pad material just fall off in my hand. I bet if I made them: they'd be better than those OEM Chevy pads.

saf · 08-28-2007, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 06CBR1KMFNRR

If it really only costs 25 cents a pad to do so, that will save me $50 a year.

As Phad said that its not about judgement, but a technical Q, well sorry last word, as the above line is something ive not ever heard someone say.

Years ago i remember there being a batch of pads that had a recall. I worked at the wholesaler at the time, and spoke to one of our racers, who had these pads, and at the time we couldnt supply a new pad. His words were "not all de-laminated, what are the chances of this set ??? . million to one".

Well, tuning day the week later, his was the millionth. The only thing that saved him is that he was on the track, and had the kitty litter slow him up. If he were on the street, he would be dead. Under braking, the pad flew off the backing plate, and to get brakes you need to pump the lever so atleast you get metal to metal on one half .... the time it took for him to pump it, he was now in the kitty litter, cart-wheeling. Result, broken shoulder and some damage to ankle, bike, pretty trowled.

Now if this was on the street, not only can you crash, but crash into someone else. I belive you are not only putting your own life into your creation, but someone elses too, and thats really selfish. If i lived in Albuquerque id send you some pads each year .... cause id be horrified to know someone on a near new 1000RR blade is riding around like that looking to skimp $50 a year.

06CBR1KMFNRR · 09-03-2007, 8:47 PM

Quote:

If i lived in Albuquerque id send you some pads each year

How about if I pay shipping?

Just kidding. Dattaway, for one reason or another, has not yet answered my questions, and I no longer have any pads left. I actually missed a beautiful 88 degree riding day today because I don't have parts. So I'm going to buy some pads and spend their life span investigating this question. I still don't think it's a bad idea.

saf, you're obviously a very experienced rider and I value your oppinion, however I don't find your argument compelling. Your friend had pads that were under a recall (due to a lack of quality control at a production facility) and chose to roll the dice on whether or not he got a set with bad adhesive (just like someone on this forum did with a set of 2ct's and was not the recipient of heartfelt as*-chewings).

My oppinion is that the people in charge of assembling factory pads are probably less qualified than I am. Are pads important? Of course. Would it be irresponsible to ignore that importance? Of course. Is there a safety fairy at the factory that magically creates pads that don't fail? Obviously not (see saf's story for reference). I have used countless different sealants and adhesives (some I mixed myself, some didn't require it) to hold safety critical aircraft components together. You would be surprised at some of the people the FAA and the military allow to do that kind of work! I was a quality assurance inspector as well as an aircrew instructor. Never once did a part fail due to a decision that I made or an inspection that I did not adequately perform. I am not convinced that there is someone in a plant making brakes that is more qualified to bond a brake material to a metal than I am.

saf · 09-03-2007, 9:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 06CBR1KMFNRR

Your friend had pads that were under a recall (due to a lack of quality control at a production facility) and chose to roll the dice on whether or not he got a set with bad adhesive (just like someone on this forum did with a set of 2ct's and was not the recipient of heartfelt as*-chewings).

06, I totally 100% agree with you on that, he nickname was "penis" for about 6 months after that. The only reason i said what i said was the end result is the same. I know that off the shelf pads can fail, its highly unlikely as you dont hear of it, but i just wouldnt want to see you hurt over $50.

06CBR1KMFNRR · 09-03-2007, 9:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saf

06, I totally 100% agree with you on that, he nickname was "penis" for about 6 months after that. The only reason i said what i said was the end result is the same. I know that off the shelf pads can fail, its highly unlikely as you dont hear of it, but i just wouldnt want to see you hurt over $50.

I promise you that I don't want me to get hurt more than you don't want me to get hurt. I don't think your argument is unfounded, I just don't think mine is either.

As far as the cash goes, it's also a matter of paying ridiculous mark-ups for products assembled by people that I don't feel are as good as I am. In case you haven't noticed, I'm relatively arrogant

dattaway · 09-03-2007, 10:14 PM

The pad material is surplus refill pad for industrial electric motor brakes. It isn't bonded to a plate, so it is very easy to use. Now where do you get this stuff?

Electric Hoist Friction Plate (Linan Hualong Friction Material Co., Ltd.,China)

"Electric hoist brake pads" can be found in most industrial supply catalogs or retail surplus. Unfortunately, the distributors for these parts don't have their catalog pages widely visible in google yet. I believe Grainger should have them. What electric hoist? Every hoist model I've worked with has them. I believe that pad pictured is used in a two horsepower Budgit hoist. Not the pad I used, but very similar. Very high temperature pad with extreme long life and won't wear the plates at all.

Take a hammer to the stock Honda stuff and it will squish like lead....a very spongy feel. The fiber from a hoist pad is a very strong ceramic that doesn't feel flat under heavy braking. You can burn this stuff under a torch just like the Honda pads.

The epoxy for binding the pads to the plate doesn't get hot as you think. Even under full throttle at 150mph with the brake lever pushed to the point of fading, the epoxy hasn't burned on me yet. I believe if you stuck a sheet of paper between the pad and caliper, it wouldn't burn. The heat from a good pad radiates quickly and insulates the rotor from the caliper. I found the stock brake pads conduct heat too quickly. Stock pads fade quickly and eat rotors faster with a poorer recovery rate. I'm not sure why they use that squishy metallic stuff. Everyone seems to use it these days. I guess the stuff I use is the evil cancer causing asbestos everyone fears.

I don't know. It works for me. The stock Honda pads never lasted 10,000 miles, ate into my rotors hard, squealed like pigs, and I got tired of paying nearly $100 a set. Now I pay $0.25 for epoxy and last longer than the chain. JBWeld is some amazing stuff.

06CBR1KMFNRR · 09-03-2007, 10:17 PM

I greatly appreciate your input.

dattaway · 09-03-2007, 10:25 PM

Oh, I forgot to mention the steps how to do this:

1) Take old pads. Grind off all old brake pad material. Wear a GOOD respirator or high grade dust mask.

2) Use a chisel to cut donor brake pad material. A carbide cutting tool *might* be hard enough to cut this. A ceramic cuttoff wheel will die. A bandsaw blade will be ruined.

3) Epoxy. You can cure the epoxy in an oven at around 220F to speed curing time.

4) Install the pads. Get out the feeler guages. If you don't have at least 0.025" its too thick and your pads may bind and rotors will get hot. These pads take forever to wear down, so you'll have to take a surface grinder or something to fit them.

5) If you suddenly do a stoppie for some reason down the street and fly over a tall building and kill an innocent pedestrian on the sidewalk on 9/11 and Homeland Security reports it as a terrorist threat and WWIII starts, I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE IN ANY WAY!

06CBR1KMFNRR · 09-03-2007, 10:39 PM

Quote:

If you suddenly do a stoppie for some reason down the street and fly over a tall building and kill an innocent pedestrian on the sidewalk on 9/11 and Homeland Security reports it as a terrorist threat and WWIII starts, I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE IN ANY WAY!

jhonda41 · 09-03-2007, 10:41 PM

Nice disclaimer.

How much does that friction plate costs? I'm slow, I cant seem to find a price in that link you gave.

dattaway · 09-03-2007, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhonda41

Nice disclaimer.

How much does that friction plate costs? I'm slow, I cant seem to find a price in that link you gave.

Good question. And I have a bad answer. I'm not familiar with the wacky ways of business industrial distributors deal their warez. They like to have complete control of their prices and have salesmen work "deals" for customers. I just got lucky in the scrapyard.

LITEITUP · 09-05-2007, 12:37 PM

Must have a lot of extra time on your hands to even worry about this. Craziness....

dattaway · 09-05-2007, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LITEITUP

Must have a lot of extra time on your hands to even worry about this. Craziness....

No. Took less than an hour. And I saved $90 for each bike. And my rotors aren't being worn down like they were by stock pads. Or squealing or clogging up the rotor dots anymore. Brakes grab better. Solved an old problem.

Some times manufacturers have it all wrong. Like the 1000rr stators.

LITEITUP · 09-05-2007, 12:56 PM

Ive just never had problems with my stock pads and rotors. I have almost 24k miles on my bike and my rotors look/feel new and my pads will need replaced here soon though. More power to you I guess.

dattaway · 09-05-2007, 1:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LITEITUP

Ive just never had problems with my stock pads and rotors. I have almost 24k miles on my bike and my rotors look/feel new and my pads will need replaced here soon though. More power to you I guess.

If you have 100,000 miles, you too might get tired of replacing them. I got tired of replacing mine every 10,000 miles. It took too much of my time and money.

rolandk · 09-05-2007, 9:12 PM

Are you guys serious? You spend $10K on a bike (which is basically a toy), hundreds on insurance, hundreds on riding gear, and you're trying to save $50 on something as critical to your life, your family, and the general publics lives as brake pads? I'm not one to judge other people but if this is for real you are complete f-ing idiots.

06CBR1KMFNRR · 09-05-2007, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolandk

Are you guys serious? You spend $10K on a bike (which is basically a toy), hundreds on insurance, hundreds on riding gear, and you're trying to save $50 on something as critical to your life, your family, and the general publics lives as brake pads? I'm not one to judge other people but if this is for real you are complete f-ing idiots.

I will restate my position that there is nothing magical taking place at the factories that produce these pads. If you think there is, you're sadly mistaken.

Many people who know shi* about bikes make the same argument about every level of maintenance that takes place on this bike. I'm sure you've heard someone say that they're bike is too important to them and there's too much at risk, so they're going to let the dealer do the work. Those of us who know better know that this false sense of comfort is based on misplaced faith in dealership mechanics. Is it so hard to believe that the same logic applies to the people that assemble your brake pads? Who do you think these companies have working in their facilities? How much do you think they get paid?

dattaway · 09-06-2007, 8:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolandk

Are you guys serious? You spend $10K on a bike (which is basically a toy), hundreds on insurance, hundreds on riding gear, and you're trying to save $50 on something as critical to your life, your family, and the general publics lives as brake pads? I'm not one to judge other people but if this is for real you are complete f-ing idiots.

Are you serious? The Honda engineers spent millions of dollars in research to come up with a perfect bike? If that were the case, we wouldn't have a thriving aftermarket community. I hope you didn't spend any money replacing parts on your bike with non-factory approved parts!

I've tested the pads I made where the stock pads fail. To me, the stock brake pads feel like greasy Dunlops and slide just as much.

slickwill · 09-06-2007, 9:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolandk

Are you guys serious? You spend $10K on a bike (which is basically a toy), hundreds on insurance, hundreds on riding gear, and you're trying to save $50 on something as critical to your life, your family, and the general publics lives as brake pads? I'm not one to judge other people but if this is for real you are complete f-ing idiots.

'06 has hit it on the head. I trust myself to do every single thing on a bike more than I would ever trust some hourly mechanic down at JiffyLube or the local Honda dealership. I guarantee I can read and follow directions better than just about any local mechanic. Unless we are talking about spending serious cash on a highly built race engine done by a nationally known engine builder there is no point to me not doing the work myself. I've never adjusted valves before but I guarantee when the time comes I'll be doing that myself. I don't have any immediate plans to build my own brake pads but that is only because I don't have the time to track down the material required. As soon as I am out of school and not spending my weekends studying I might give it a try.

Also dattaways bike is not a "toy." He racks up some serious miles every year.

MT Wallet · 09-06-2007, 4:52 PM

There's a lot of testing and testing and testing and testing that goes into brakes I would imagine.

Not something I'd trust myself to do. But that's been said here a dozen times already sorry.

rockyz1000rr · 09-06-2007, 4:59 PM

SIRENS AND PRETTY LIGHTS FORREST, SIRENS AND PRETTY LIGHTS!

dattaway · 09-06-2007, 5:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MT Wallet

There's a lot of testing and testing and testing and testing that goes into brakes I would imagine.

That's what makes it interesting. I doubt many riders would consider trying to find the limits of their own brakes. I tried testing to the point of destruction. Try 150mph, full throttle with the brakes until they fade. Repeat. I learned about the limitations of the OEM pads and the ones I made. These were also tested in the rain, snow, and down to 0F as I ride to work every day. I like the strong braking with minimal effort, lack of chatter, or grabbing of the rotors. I feel I can make an informed opinion about what makes a good reliable brake.