Honda Motorcycle Forum
Honda Motorcycles

General Discussion General Motorcycle Discussion. If it's related to motorcycles in any way, and doesn't fit into a more specific forum, it goes here.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-06-2007, 12:13 PM   #1
 
Join Date: 10-16-2007
Location: Des Moines, IA
Age: 37
Posts: 15
Reputation Power: 0
bgcheese is on a distinguished road
Rewinding Stator

Well I have been reading through some threads in here about rewinding your own Stator for the Alternator. I am sure I can do it so that isn't much of an issue, I have rewound industrial motors when in a pinch so it should be fairly easy.

Anyhow here is my question What should the Voltage AC output of a Stock Stator be?

It really shouldn't matter what kind of bike it is. But from reading some people say that they are getting 50VAC plus that seems a bit high since the rectifier is just swapping the arcs of the AC voltage and it pretty much becomes DC maybe minus a Volt for Diode power loss. So that would give you about 49VDC, so I am guessing the Voltage regulator has to chop off the rest to get it to 14VDC.

That seems poorly engineered, but I see other bikes that don't have that problem. So I am at a loss of why would it be better to go with high voltage and run the regulator hot all the time or just wind the stator with less wraps which reduces the voltage. Either way what should my goal be for voltage and Amperage output max, My plan was to make 16VAC with 16AWG magnet wire. The 16AWG should give me more than enough amperage capacity, so I am sure I will have to experiment with the length of the wire to get the correct voltage.

So is 16VAC a good number?? that would make my regulator chop off 1 volt after the rectifier has had it normal 1 volt loss. The Regulator and Rectifier I am using I bought from Oregon Cycle so it can handle what ever I feed them instead of the stock ones that would burn out most like during my experiments. I might swap my old ones back in after the experimenting.

Thanks for any advice I am will keep you updated of my progress.
bgcheese is offline   Reply With Quote
Remove Ads
Old 11-07-2007, 8:15 PM   #2
 
Join Date: 07-20-2004
Location: Canada
Age: 35
Posts: 723
Reputation Power: 11
SpikedLemon will become famous soon enough
Re: Rewinding Stator

Neat idea but have you thought about having a shop re-wind your stator for you?

Your stator, unlike most motors, is bathed in oil. All the windings are coated on my stators. I did just pick up a new stator for my 929 for $100 from rmstator; they also advertise re-winding your OEM stator if you'd prefer.
__________________
---

-Rob.
SpikedLemon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 10:38 AM   #3
 
Join Date: 10-16-2007
Location: Des Moines, IA
Age: 37
Posts: 15
Reputation Power: 0
bgcheese is on a distinguished road
Re: Rewinding Stator

Thanks, I will check out rmstator I figured it would cost alot more than $100 for new one. Hopefully rewinding is cheaper yet. The Local shops I have called around to they won't do it for less than 200 bucks. That was why I looked at doing it myself.
bgcheese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2007, 6:18 AM   #4
 
Join Date: 06-22-2007
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 514
Images: 3
Reputation Power: 8
Ol' Gravy Leg is on a distinguished road
Re: Rewinding Stator

I'm confused. Are you trying to turn your stator into an alternator?
Ol' Gravy Leg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2007, 10:34 AM   #5
 
Join Date: 10-16-2007
Location: Des Moines, IA
Age: 37
Posts: 15
Reputation Power: 0
bgcheese is on a distinguished road
Re: Rewinding Stator

A stator is part of a alternator.

Alternator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
bgcheese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2007, 11:18 AM   #6
 
Join Date: 01-11-2005
Location: Kansas Citeeeee, MO USA
Age: 46
Posts: 902
Reputation Power: 10
dattaway will become famous soon enough
Re: Rewinding Stator

50 volts? You haven't seen anything yet! That's at idle under an open circuit. Peak voltage is higher. You should try hitting redline with a stock stator unconnected. You should see several hundred volts peak to peak with an oscilloscope.

Our regulator/rectifiers use shunt type regulation. What is not used is shorted back to the coil. When your coil is plugged into the regulator, you will only see battery volts. Unplug it and you can have some fun with high voltage.

Stock wiring uses 17 gauge with 59 turns on each pole. I've tried 14 gauge and was able to squeeze 20 turns on each, but to maintain battery voltage required nearly 2,000 rpm. And it gave me over 30 amps on each phase, or 50 amps through the wiring harness. If the battery was discharged at all, the wiring harness would get very hot. Since the rpm's would get low frequently, you can bet connectors melted. My 14 gauge stator failed during the first warm days after winter. And melted the solder inside my stock regulator/rectifier.

I'm currently using 16 gauge, but am going back to 17. These stators put out too much power in such a small area that they burn up.

So why the unusual high voltage? We use old technology shut regulation. That's because our charging systems do not have a field excitation like a car alternator. This is to make our charging systems much smaller. You can imagine the size of a slip ring/brush assembly would add. So why not a switching voltage regulator? Transistors can switch very fast with high rpms, but have a problem doing that with high voltage. That's why our regulators have an SCR inside them to clamp down on the high voltage peaks. Its cheap and easy to make these. At all times, about one horsepower is being shorted back to the coil. I don't see Honda spending much more money on our charging systems.
dattaway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2007, 1:29 PM   #7
 
Join Date: 10-16-2007
Location: Des Moines, IA
Age: 37
Posts: 15
Reputation Power: 0
bgcheese is on a distinguished road
Re: Rewinding Stator

Wow Thanks for the post, that is the info I was trying to figure out.

Yeah it sounds like the engineer didn't care about the output voltage since they figured they could just shunt it to ground. Sounds like you and I are on the same track to get the charging system to make sense.

I will make sure I keep the stock size like you said it was putting out too many Amps and relationship between Amps and Volts meaning the lower voltage you go the more amps it takes. So If it set my Voltage to a lower Voltage it will be drawing alot more amps from the Stator and most like burn it up over time. So this is going to be a little trickier than I thought to balance this thing properly. My First move it going to be making a better Harness from the Stator to the Regulator and Rectifier. Most importantly I am going to get Circuit Breaker the pushbutton type so I can limit the current if it gets too high it will pop the breaker during testing and then I will find the weak link. Also from what you are saying and from looking at many different Motorcycle diagrams I see they really haven't changed over time. I am pretty good with electronics so I am sure I can build something to get this thing under control it definitely isn't very modern. I will have my new Stator from ebay today and will start the rewind and engineering. I am going to post the pictures and description on my website over the next couple weeks, I will summarize here as well!!
bgcheese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2007, 9:32 AM   #8
 
Join Date: 01-11-2005
Location: Kansas Citeeeee, MO USA
Age: 46
Posts: 902
Reputation Power: 10
dattaway will become famous soon enough
Re: Rewinding Stator

Yes, 17 gauge wire is easier to wind than the heavy stuff. The 16 gauge puts blisters on my fingers 1/3rd the way through. Its soft wire, but its a lot of work on the hands.

I wouldn't worry about fuses or anything protecting the regulator/rectifier. The maximum current is limited by the wire size. The failure will happen when the enamel breaks down enough to start really shorting out into red hot temperatures. The latest wire out now days is rated for 200C and is good stuff:

Applied Magnets :: Neodymium Rare Earth Magnet and Ceramic Blocks, Strips, Sheets and Magnet Wire

If you want to build a more efficient regulator, IGBT transistors should do the job well. They are a recent invention and still very expensive, but a very small one can switch thousands of volts at hundreds of amps. Incredible devices. One that can fit in your hand can switch a few megawatts at 20KHz. The big problem with building any kind of regulator is the mode of failure that will send full stator volts into the electrical system. I don't think the bike will like a hundred volts too well. So if we were to make our own regulator, it would have to have a protection circuit to clamp down on overvoltage like the stock regulator.
dattaway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2007, 9:30 AM   #9
 
Join Date: 10-16-2007
Location: Des Moines, IA
Age: 37
Posts: 15
Reputation Power: 0
bgcheese is on a distinguished road
Re: Rewinding Stator

I looking into the IGBT transisitors, they are pretty hard to find, but impressive little components.

I have built a Heavy duty Regulator just for my test using two Solid State relays one for high voltage and one for low voltage in series that way the high voltage will block the voltage before it get to the smaller one preventing it from burning up. I have bench tested it and works well, I like to go a bit overboard when engineering a project it keeps my risk lower of burning up parts.

Rewinding is slow going my fingers are pretty sore and I still have two more windings to do. One thing that I thought was worth mentioning on my stator they are all in parallel so I had previously thought that it would be impossible to know when one coil dies other than a decreases amount amperage output. But looking at the way the windings work, mine has 6 coils so it should have 6 pulses per revolution or three complete cycles. So if you switch a multimeter to Hertz you should be able to measure the hertz at idle and then compare at a later time to make sure all the coils are working properly. if you see a drop in the hertz you know you lost a coil. Pretty cool!!
bgcheese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2007, 10:25 AM   #10
 
Join Date: 01-11-2005
Location: Kansas Citeeeee, MO USA
Age: 46
Posts: 902
Reputation Power: 10
dattaway will become famous soon enough
Re: Rewinding Stator

I use simple three phase power. Its simple, yet efficient with reasonable low voltage peaks. Its easy to wind. Just three windings: three are tied together at one end and take the other three to your regulator. Wind a pole, skip two, wind, skip two... That's the WYE configuration.

I have some extra IGBT module pairs if you want one. PM me your address and I'll send one in the mail. They are fun to experiment with and act like a mosfet controlled diode. Wave your fingers over the gate and the static electricity will make the emitter and collector behave exactly like a diode. Good for very high currents, yet it can switch high voltages amazingly fast. The memory effect of the gate will last for months or years as it has perfect resistance. One of these days I hope to spend the time and make a good regulator out of these.
dattaway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2007, 9:59 PM   #11
 
Join Date: 06-22-2007
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 514
Images: 3
Reputation Power: 8
Ol' Gravy Leg is on a distinguished road
Re: Rewinding Stator

Originally Posted by bgcheese View Post
A stator is part of a alternator.

Alternator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
LMAO! Thanks for the link...haha

As well as many others, I don't know what you were asking/trying to do.

It sounded like you trying to retain excess votage instead of the it being shunted back to the R/R. Hence, my question.

I didn't read the rest of the posts, but it sounds like you found someone who figured out what you were talking about. GL
Ol' Gravy Leg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org > General Motorcycling > General Discussion


Search tags for this page
dirt bike stator rewind
,
honda stator rewind service sacramento
,
motorcycle stator rewinding
,
motorcycle stator rewinding service
,
motorcycle stator winding
,
rebuild stator motorcycle
,
rewinding a dirtbike stator
,
rewinding a motorcycle stator
,

rewinding a stator

,
rewinding stator
,
stator rewinding
,
stator rewinding motorcycle
Click on a term to search for related topics.

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New stator ratchetman Honda FireBlade 3 05-24-2007 11:25 PM
Stator Coating zfrilly2 General Discussion 20 05-24-2007 12:22 AM
Stator 954RR Fastrr Honda FireBlade 1 12-09-2006 12:53 PM
Stator / alternator l'timbré Honda FireBlade 2 05-06-2005 9:34 PM
Stator Replacement? seebeare929rr Honda FireBlade 11 04-08-2005 9:30 PM



1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109