[FB1000inPA]

I am in the process of buying a new bike and it seems the business changed since I bought my last bike in 2005.

Just wondering if you could help me a little understanding what's really going on in your industry.

I understand some of these questions you probably don't want to answer but I ask them anyway. What I want to say is that I rather see a "no comment" than a "well, this is different from dealer to dealer" reply.

1) When I see a MRP of $11,599, how much is the actual mark-up?
I am asking because I see the 2008 CBR 1000RRs advertised between $10,099 and the MRP. In other words, I believe the dealer with the low price is still making money which leaves the dealers with MRPs price as a rip-offs.

2) Why is it that cash deals are no longer good and don't get you a better price?
Is it that dealers make more money when customers finance? What about dealerships that don't own their own finance companies - how does it work? Are finance companies approaching you and tell you I pay you x amount which will be more than the MRP and we do the rest with the customer making some money as well?

3) Why are older models not drastically reduced?
I see 2007 models are still $9G. What happens to the 2006 models that are left over?

4) What's up with all these dealer fees?
Title fees I can understand but set-up fees? What exactly is a set-up? Is it just a way to squeeze more money out of the customer?

5) Why is the trade in value deducted from the MRP and not from the price the dealer is willing to accept?
Are you suggesting customers come the first time and ask for a price without a trade-in and come back requesting a price with a trade-in to see what the difference is and how much a dealer really is giving you for your old bike?

6) What are crate sales?
I believe the shipping crates were damaged during transport. How good are these bikes and can these bikes still be sold as new ones?

I understand that customers have no choice if they want to buy a new bike. They need to pay. Frankly, lately every dealer wants to have a home run with every sell they make. Is this pushing the customers away from buying new bikes and causes a tendency to look at last year models and used bikes?

Thanks for your help.

[nedro]

[FB1000inPA]

Originally Posted by nedro

Why you laughing so hard?
If you know answers to these questions feel free to share them with us.
Maybe you don't care and don't care to get ripped off every single time you buy a bike.

[CrazyFreddy]

Originally Posted by FB1000inPA

I am in the process of buying a new bike and it seems the business changed since I bought my last bike in 2005.

Just wondering if you could help me a little understanding what's really going on in your industry.

I understand some of these questions you probably don't want to answer but I ask them anyway. What I want to say is that I rather see a "no comment" than a "well, this is different from dealer to dealer" reply.

1) When I see a MRP of $11,599, how much is the actual mark-up?
I am asking because I see the 2008 CBR 1000RRs advertised between $10,099 and the MRP. In other words, I believe the dealer with the low price is still making money which leaves the dealers with MRPs price as a rip-offs. Bikes need to be sold with enough of a gross profit to compensates the salesman, managers, overhead, interest etc... 2008 CBR 1000's are a hot new bike. They will be sold close to MSRP or more by most dealers.

2) Why is it that cash deals are no longer good and don't get you a better price?
Is it that dealers make more money when customers finance? What about dealerships that don't own their own finance companies - how does it work? Are finance companies approaching you and tell you I pay you x amount which will be more than the MRP and we do the rest with the customer making some money as well? I don't know 1 dealer including myself who owns a finance company. Dealer's get very small (usually 1% or $100 per $10,000) back from the banks that finance the motorcylce's. Customers who finance usually are more likely to spend more in Accessories and extended service plans at the time of sale.

3) Why are older models not drastically reduced?
I see 2007 models are still $9G. What happens to the 2006 models that are left over? We drastically reduce all leftovers. I don't know why other dealers would not do that.

4) What's up with all these dealer fees?
Title fees I can understand but set-up fees? What exactly is a set-up? Is it just a way to squeeze more money out of the customer? Charging for Freight and set up helps the dealer be able to discount the bike more to the customer and stay profitable at the same time. There is more to it than just the cost of the bike when you sell it. Business's have overheads, staffing, advertising etc..., and need to make profit in order to stay give good service and stay open.

5) Why is the trade in value deducted from the MRP and not from the price the dealer is willing to accept?
Are you suggesting customers come the first time and ask for a price without a trade-in and come back requesting a price with a trade-in to see what the difference is and how much a dealer really is giving you for your old bike?

The bottom line when you are trading in a bike is the difference between the new bike and the trade in. For example. if a new bike is $10,000 and your trade in is $7000 then the difference would be $3,000. If the same bike was $100,000 and the dealer was giving you $97,000 for your trade then the difference would be the same $3000. Dealers always have an esitimate in the deal on what he can sell your trade for. But, we've all been wrong more than we like.

6) What are crate sales?
I believe the shipping crates were damaged during transport. How good are these bikes and can these bikes still be sold as new ones? Once in a blue moon a bike will get a scratch or a dent during shipping, but we always fix it first, and the factory pays us to do so. It's part of business.

I understand that customers have no choice if they want to buy a new bike. They need to pay. Frankly, lately every dealer wants to have a home run with every sell they make. Is this pushing the customers away from buying new bikes and causes a tendency to look at last year models and used bikes?

I don't know this to be true. We discount hard and push as much volume as possible to be profitable.

Thanks for your help.

Freddy

[FB1000inPA]

Thanks Freddy. Now tell me you match the $10,099 from Champion Honda and we are in business.

[CrazyFreddy]

Originally Posted by FB1000inPA

Thanks Freddy. Now tell me you match the $10,099 from Champion Honda and we are in business.

You will be buyng the bike from us. I will not negociate with you on the boards. We always will meet or beat a competitors price.

Give me a call @ 516-795-6400 Ext 133

[HondaGalToo]

Since you're in PA, I think you should also check out Montgomeryville Cycles in Hatfield.

[CrazyFreddy]

Originally Posted by HondaGalToo

Since you're in PA, I think you should also check out Montgomeryville Cycles in Hatfield.

Hey Honda Girl Trying to make a sale here...

[nedro]

Originally Posted by FB1000inPA

Why you laughing so hard?
If you know answers to these questions feel free to share them with us.
Maybe you don't care and don't care to get ripped off every single time you buy a bike.

You asked.
(Freddy this has no bearing on you personally. For all I know, you are the most honest person in the world)
I laughed so hard because, as a chicken, you are asking the wolf when he isn't going to be hungry so all the chickens can go outside of the coop to play safely.

[slickwill]

I was told by a local Honda dealer that Honda's MSRP includes freight and set-up, and they charge nothing above MSRP other than taxes and license fees. If you aren't buying January-July then you will actually pay a bit less than MSRP and can probably get out the door for quite a bit less than MSRP. The '08 is the "hot new thing" so most of them will probably go fast so getting a "deal" is probably less likely.

I was also told the same thing about Ducati's MSRP including freight and set-up. However Ducati Omaha adds $695 F&S and the local dealer here in Des Moines adds $440, so basically they can all do whatever they want. The 848 that I want is also the "hot new thing" so I am aware that unless I wait awhile I will be paying full MSRP plus their freight and set-up charges.

If you want to trade in your bike then you should never say a word about the trade, negotiate the bike to a price you are willing to pay, and then ask what they will give you on the trade. If you bring in the trade first they are more likely to not go as low on the price of the bike in order to make sure the trade is profitable.

[CrazyFreddy]

Originally Posted by slickwill

I was told by a local Honda dealer that Honda's MSRP includes freight and set-up, and they charge nothing above MSRP other than taxes and license fees. If you aren't buying January-July then you will actually pay a bit less than MSRP and can probably get out the door for quite a bit less than MSRP. The '08 is the "hot new thing" so most of them will probably go fast so getting a "deal" is probably less likely.

I was also told the same thing about Ducati's MSRP including freight and set-up. However Ducati Omaha adds $695 F&S and the local dealer here in Des Moines adds $440, so basically they can all do whatever they want. The 848 that I want is also the "hot new thing" so I am aware that unless I wait awhile I will be paying full MSRP plus their freight and set-up charges.

If you want to trade in your bike then you should never say a word about the trade, negotiate the bike to a price you are willing to pay, and then ask what they will give you on the trade. If you bring in the trade first they are more likely to not go as low on the price of the bike in order to make sure the trade is profitable.

If every dealer charged MSRP and Every customer paid MSRP, I think that there would be no reason to charge dealer freight and set up. On some bikes the factory pays us $22 to build the bike.

As for the trade theory, it still all boils down to the difference. Bringing the trade up in the beginning or the end doesn't matter to us. We still will figure the trade for what it is worth to us and what we think we can sell it for. We still need to clear a certain amount on each specific bike we sell.

I usually take shorter profits on deals that have a trade because I have a second selling opportunity with the trade which I wouldn't have if there was not one.

Freddy.

[slickwill]

I usually take shorter profits on deals that have a trade because I have a second selling opportunity with the trade which I wouldn't have if there was not one.

That's always how I figured it could (and should work) but I have yet to get a deal involving a trade that seemed to work out in such a way that would make you think that is how the dealer is viewing the opportunity.

[FB1000inPA]

Frankly, I believe most dealers try to take off the trade-in bikes from the customers for nothing to maximize the re-sell.

Freddy, thanks for the offer and phone number. I am still shopping. When will the '08 bikes be available?

[HondaGalToo]

Originally Posted by CrazyFreddy

Hey Honda Girl Trying to make a sale here...

Sorry, man, not trying to ruin your sale. It's just that he's in PA...

Carry on...

[CrazyFreddy]

Originally Posted by HondaGalToo

Sorry, man, not trying to ruin your sale. It's just that he's in PA...

Carry on...

That's ok.

My post was meant in humor.

[CrazyFreddy]

Originally Posted by FB1000inPA

Frankly, I believe most dealers try to take off the trade-in bikes from the customers for nothing to maximize the re-sell.

Freddy, thanks for the offer and phone number. I am still shopping. When will the '08 bikes be available?

Call me when you are ready.

Thanks for the opportunity

[FB1000inPA]

Originally Posted by HondaGalToo

Sorry, man, not trying to ruin your sale. It's just that he's in PA...

Carry on...

Hey Gal, I am checking US wide for the best deals. If I would stay in PA I would be screwed considering the places in my area such as North American Warhorse, Rusty Palmer, or Riders World.

Many in NEPA go outside the area because the arrogance of these places is earth shattering.

Now there is an opportunity for Freddy.

[BALDGONZO]

Originally Posted by slickwill

I was told by a local Honda dealer that Honda's MSRP includes freight and set-up, and they charge nothing above MSRP other than taxes and license fees. If you aren't buying January-July then you will actually pay a bit less than MSRP and can probably get out the door for quite a bit less than MSRP. The '08 is the "hot new thing" so most of them will probably go fast so getting a "deal" is probably less likely.

I was also told the same thing about Ducati's MSRP including freight and set-up. However Ducati Omaha adds $695 F&S and the local dealer here in Des Moines adds $440, so basically they can all do whatever they want. The 848 that I want is also the "hot new thing" so I am aware that unless I wait awhile I will be paying full MSRP plus their freight and set-up charges.

If you want to trade in your bike then you should never say a word about the trade, negotiate the bike to a price you are willing to pay, and then ask what they will give you on the trade. If you bring in the trade first they are more likely to not go as low on the price of the bike in order to make sure the trade is profitable.

You are right on the money Sickwill; buying a car or bike!

[nedro]

Originally Posted by slickwill

I was told by a local Honda dealer that Honda's MSRP includes freight and set-up, and they charge nothing above MSRP other than taxes and license fees. If you aren't buying January-July then you will actually pay a bit less than MSRP and can probably get out the door for quite a bit less than MSRP. The '08 is the "hot new thing" so most of them will probably go fast so getting a "deal" is probably less likely.

I was also told the same thing about Ducati's MSRP including freight and set-up. However Ducati Omaha adds $695 F&S and the local dealer here in Des Moines adds $440, so basically they can all do whatever they want. The 848 that I want is also the "hot new thing" so I am aware that unless I wait awhile I will be paying full MSRP plus their freight and set-up charges.

If you want to trade in your bike then you should never say a word about the trade, negotiate the bike to a price you are willing to pay, and then ask what they will give you on the trade. If you bring in the trade first they are more likely to not go as low on the price of the bike in order to make sure the trade is profitable.

Originally Posted by CrazyFreddy

If every dealer charged MSRP and Every customer paid MSRP, I think that there would be no reason to charge dealer freight and set up. On some bikes the factory pays us $22 to build the bike.

As for the trade theory, it still all boils down to the difference. Bringing the trade up in the beginning or the end doesn't matter to us. We still will figure the trade for what it is worth to us and what we think we can sell it for. We still need to clear a certain amount on each specific bike we sell.

I usually take shorter profits on deals that have a trade because I have a second selling opportunity with the trade which I wouldn't have if there was not one.

Freddy.

Originally Posted by BALDGONZO

You are right on the money Sickwill; buying a car or bike!

Again, this is why I laughed so hard.
$22 Freddy??? putting together a few CRF50s are we???

[FB1000inPA]

Originally Posted by nedro

Again, this is why I laughed so hard.
$22 Freddy??? putting together a few CRF50s are we???

That's what I don't understand. Is the $22 later the set-up fee of $400?

[CrazyFreddy]

Originally Posted by FB1000inPA

That's what I don't understand. Is the $22 later the set-up fee of $400?

I said on some units they give a $22 credit. My point was between un-creating, building, and getting it on the showroom floor was that they don't give us nearly enough.

There is profit in set up and assembly for the dealer. Dealers need to make profit to do business. It's a few hundred dollars. Remember we are supposed to be selling the bike you want for $11,599 (MSRP)

Dealer cost is over $10,000 on your bike plus our cost of assembly, transporting it, warehousing it, paying a driver to bring it to the showroom, a commission to the salesman who sells it, salary to the people who do your paperwork etc...

If Champion or any other dealer is charging you $10,099 for the bike, they are going to charge you other fees to make up for that deep discount.

Everyone should pay the least they can for something, I agree. Dealers also need a profit to do business. Yes, some dealers take it too far, but to pay cost for a hot bike and $890 profit to the dealer in the way of set up and assembly is a great deal.

When customers over shop a vehicle, they tend to have an uncomfortable buying experience, because dealers need to make it up somehow.

A fair price, good service, and a pleasant experience is worth every penny you spend.

[FB1000inPA]

Freddy, let me bring it to a point - the only amount that really counts for me is the out-the-door price. I know no matter how much a dealer sells the bike for money will be made. In other words, how much is enough? Is a dealer willing to go a little lower and keep the customer as a repeat customer?