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Old 02-18-2008, 1:27 AM   #31
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Re: Police Officer Indicted for High Speed Motorcycle Chase

Originally Posted by lanbrown View Post
Has anyone seen the video? I have yet to find it or hear from someone that has. It must be very damaging to the police officer and that is why it has not been made public. You hear about the speeds, but the biker could have been going a constant speed and the cop was the one that had to slow down and then go over 100 MPH to try to catch up to him. With the cop being on the other shoulder, I don't know what he was going to try to do. It would be almost impossible to slow to the traffic speed and merge two lanes over.
Sorry, Ian, I forgot to add my 10 bahts worth on this issue. Surely, with modern technology, the police should be able to radar and target one particular vehicle to obtain an accurate speed. By saying that I was doing 150 mph in order to catch up with you is a statement in irrelevance. It's quite clear to me that even a half-wit lawyer would be able to get that thrown out.
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Old 02-18-2008, 6:26 AM   #32
 
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Re: Police Officer Indicted for High Speed Motorcycle Chase

ok, u got a point but the fact is there are some persons in (croatian) police which are not doing their job corectly. if a biker goes 30mph and has all the documents and gear then there is no reason to give him hell without any reason. and about police chase there has to be some other way to deal with this because this is not good either. maybe if that police officer didnt chase this biker nobody would have died. maybe this biker would have come back home. maybe he would die himself some other day because of the speeding but then it wouldn't involve other innocent persons. im not defending that biker cause he is also guilty for killing people but this police officer is guilty also because i don't think he began chasing that biker because he wanted to stop him from hurting somebody. i think that he wanted to stop him because of his ego. if he wanted to stop him because he didn't want that biker to hurt someone then he would quit chasing this guy.

tell me what do you think about this video:
YouTube - Bike crash copcar
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Old 02-18-2008, 9:50 AM   #33
 
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Re: Police Officer Indicted for High Speed Motorcycle Chase

Originally Posted by Surffrog View Post

We bikers also have to take responsibility for our actions. Nay, we must take responsibility for our actions, both individually and collectively. Speeding already has fines set in place, I believe, however, it should be an automatic prison offense if a rider 'runs'. No if's or but's - prison. Plain and simple. As I said on another thread somewhere around here, two wrongs don't make a right. Unlike the chicken and the egg scenario, we know which came first. The biker got the horn and then the police gave chase.
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Old 02-18-2008, 9:52 AM   #34
 
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Re: Police Officer Indicted for High Speed Motorcycle Chase

low-rider, that video was messed up.
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Old 02-18-2008, 10:06 AM   #35
 
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Re: Police Officer Indicted for High Speed Motorcycle Chase

yeah, video doesn't look good at all but can someone tell me doesn't this police officer deserve to go to jail cause he did something to kill that biker on purpose. right? so can someone tell me that it is justified what this policeman did???

yeah, bikers are speeding and stunting many times but you can't control who is buying sport bike but you can control who is working in police department and i think police officer should make us all proud and be there to help people and not to try to kill them if they are speeding or as this guy on the video wheeling. nobody can tell me its the right stuff and it is justified. then why r they trying to stop us...then they should pull out their gun right away and shoot us ded. they will save their time with one bullet which costs about 1 dollar.
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Old 02-18-2008, 1:13 PM   #36
 
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Re: Police Officer Indicted for High Speed Motorcycle Chase

I guess I should drop my two cents in. In my area...NY...most officers are ok with bikes and for the most part we have good relationships with them. There are a few officers that are over the top though. They have threatened us at times even when we are not breaking the law...harrassed us...etc...but then again this is the minority. It seems that the good ones are good and the bad ones are really bad. Every year we get one or two officers that pull up at our hang out spots and tell us if we or anyone else on two wheels run they will hit us off their bikes (without their lights or Christmas tree lights on) if we do 1 mph over the speed limit. The funny thing is another officer will pull up five minutes later and we will hang out with them, laugh and joke just like we would any friends. We respect them and they respect us. Dont get me wrong we are not innocent and if those same officers catch us doing 100+mph they will do their duty.

I do believe thought that LEO have a higher responsibility to the general public and should be held to a higher standard. They should know when a chase is too dangerous to continue it and also know when to ask for backup, let a person go, determine whether the crime warrants the chase, etc...I dont know what to say about that case where the officer is being indicted, but he should have followed procedure IMHO, and in the video the officer should not have pulled out. Even if the rider was breaking the law I dont think the action of officers (pulling out in front of him) should possibly endanger someones life if they culprit is not doing something that will necessarliy endager someones elses life.
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Old 02-18-2008, 1:50 PM   #37
 
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Re: Police Officer Indicted for High Speed Motorcycle Chase

Remember just like a rider police officers have different levels of experience as well. It is sad and unfortunate this happened and an officer will be held responsible his actions in this event.

Ultimately the person who breaks the law to begin with should hold the final responsibility if he is ever found.

So if you unknown rider are on here I hope your conscience never allows you a moments rest knowing that all you had to do was pull over and face the music.

Everytime I have thought of running I remind myself what would I feel like if some guy just doing his job died or killed someone because of me.
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Old 02-18-2008, 4:40 PM   #38
 
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Re: Police Officer Indicted for High Speed Motorcycle Chase

Originally Posted by Renegade929 View Post
you miss the point my friend....i have zero problems with cops doing their jobs, why don't you try reading my post again this time, and pay attention.But pulling up to a pack of sport bike riders and telling us " he's going to try and ram us off the road " is quite f*cked up...the guys an asshole, PERIOD ! And my " Hero" ? who the f*ck is that supposed to be ? Fact is, most of the cops around here are actually pretty damn decent guys, but there's a few who just have a problem with ANYONE on a sportbike...THOSE are the ones i have a problem with ,and apparently others here do also....
Nope I didn't, the cop was not right. However you need to get better friends. I would have nothing to do with people that acted that way and thus would not have had a cop mad at me. It does not excuse his loss of control but you never know he might had to peel some squid off the pavement the day before But the thing that stands out is that you CHOSE to associate with people that are doing 100+ on the road by a cop. Lie with dogs and you will get fleas
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Old 02-18-2008, 4:43 PM   #39
 
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Re: Police Officer Indicted for High Speed Motorcycle Chase

Originally Posted by Surffrog View Post
Sorry, Ian, I forgot to add my 10 bahts worth on this issue. Surely, with modern technology, the police should be able to radar and target one particular vehicle to obtain an accurate speed. By saying that I was doing 150 mph in order to catch up with you is a statement in irrelevance. It's quite clear to me that even a half-wit lawyer would be able to get that thrown out.
That is just it, where is the video. We have no idea if the cop even got the actual speed. All we know is the cop broke the department’s policy and he is being punished for it. The video must clearly show the officer was in the wrong and the motorcyclist was breaking the law but not anything remotely close to requiring a high speed pursuit. So they video is being kept under wraps because of that.

I also think the term high speed pursuit is used way too often. They consider 90MPH high speed. It’s is only 20 MPH over the speed limit; or 30%. In some places it would also only be 10 to 15 MPH over the speed limit; or around 10 to 15%.

Originally Posted by low-rider View Post
maybe if that police officer didnt chase this biker nobody would have died.
There is a very good chance that no one would have died as it was the officer who caused the accident.

Originally Posted by rokitt51 View Post
, i think that more cops need to be examples now-a-days. Where i am from, the cops do dam near what they want cause they have the city backin them up. Hell all it took was just a couple of sportbike riders for us all to be labled right? Put his ass prison. I dont condone dumb shyt that a lot of us bikers do (i said us because im no angel on two wheels) but i am glad that the biker got off. We dont know the circumstances behind it.
Some police forces allow way too much leeway in what the officers can do. In this case, the department had a policy and the city cannot back the officer as he broke it. For those that think why should one person be punished for one stupid mistake? The reason is simple; it is part of the job. Just like if you are a doctor and make a mistake, it can cost you your job and a good sum of money. Obviously doctors are paid more, but the fact still remains that both were trained. They both accepted the risks as well.

So maybe the days that some cops think they can’t be touched are over. They two must follow the law.

Originally Posted by Surffrog View Post
Ian, while I completely agree with you that this method of so-called "catching" the speeding biker is utterly crazy and needs to be brought to an end immediately, I've got to ask why (in your opinion) so many police are behaving in such a manner? What is it about sports bikes that gets the police so fired up? The answer to this might help us find a way forward with the problem. You see, I'm living in a country where the police do exactly what you've described. If you're lucky, they'll come and pick up your carcass before the wild-life get to it. They certainly don't ever stop you for speeding or riding recklessly. If they tried they'd have to stop the vast majority of the population. As a consequence, the number of deaths on the road here, per day, are beyond belief.

It seems to me, given the number of complaints made by so many members here, that a large number of police in the US (and Croatia according to Lowrider) are hell-bent on making sportsbike riders life a misery. So we need to collectively put our heads together and assess just what the hell it is that makes us public enemy number one and try to find a solution.

(Individuals such as Maholi must be considered exempt from blame as quite clearly they love sportsbikes as well as own them. However, I personally welcome their input, which has great value to us because they are police officers and have an insight into the less public opinions of those "other officers".)

First and foremost, I think it should be made law (not just policy) that any bike stop/check scenario should be carried out by an officer on a bike, not in a car. Where a bike chase has been engaged (if we are only talking about speeding and/or tickets) patrol cars should only act in a supporting role and not engage directly in the chase.

Secondly, I believe the bike patrol officers should be given bikes that are up to the task assigned to them. It's pointless trying to chase a CBR 1krr with a Harley (sorry to any HD riders here, no offense intended its just a fact of life that an HD isn't going to catch a 1krr if its rider has the bit between his teeth).

And thirdly, those riders should be so highly-trained (and refresher trained regularly) that the onus is completely on them to ensure either a safe stop or safe abortion of a chase. I also believe from the comments made here that if egos are a problem then new methods of evaluating an individual's suitability as a patrol officer have to be implemented. Having a thinly veiled ego maniac at the controls of any vehicle while armed and given permission to engage in a chase is (imho) worse than the nutter who's steaming full tilt down a public road on his two-wheeled crotch-rocket trying to beat the land speed record. But only just.

We bikers also have to take responsibility for our actions. Nay, we must take responsibility for our actions, both individually and collectively. Speeding already has fines set in place, I believe, however, it should be an automatic prison offense if a rider 'runs'. No if's or but's - prison. Plain and simple. As I said on another thread somewhere around here, two wrongs don't make a right. Unlike the chicken and the egg scenario, we know which came first. The biker got the horn and then the police gave chase.
Take the bike portion out of it. Some cops like to have their ego stroked and they like abusing their power. In Baltimore another cop has been suspended with pay as internal affairs is investigating. He used way too much force getting a skateboard from a kid and also yelled and threatened physical violence. This same cop also on video was shown kicking an R/C car around and threatening the owner to leave immediately.

The videos apparently will be used to train new recruits and the officer may very well lose his job. He was under investigation for the skateboard incident and then another video was turned in of the same officer. This officer never had any complaints. I highly doubt it, they were probably swept under the rug or people just didn’t report him as usually it doesn’t do much.

I know I have had an issue with an officer or two. Both of them were clearly in the wrong and they just thought I would roll over and take it. Both found out that they messed with the wrong person. One left to go to another post as he couldn’t get promoted and the other suffered even worse consequences. Mainly because the chief tried to protect him and I was going to have none of that. By the time I was done with the mayor and their city council and they were none too happy with the chief or the officer but the chief was still standing tall. Next was my attorney talking to theirs and the chief lost all footing he had. The only reason why I pushed was because it was obviously ok with the chief and the officer that they can violate some ones civil rights and get away with it. That officer was still there a few years after the incident but he hasn’t been able to go anyone else (I sent a letter of his apology to me) to the surrounding areas. It is also in his file and will have to pay the price for years to come. He was also told to leave me alone as they didn’t want him to try to make up for it.

Not all areas have motorcycle patrol officers and the ones that do usually use them for traffic enforcement only.

As for a bike to carry the job out. The patrol officers need to be on a comfy motorcycle as they are on it most of the day. They also need room for all the electronics and their accessories like a ticket book. So they would need a sport bike with saddlebags; which isn’t going to work.

As for someone that mentioned automatic prison sentence. The jails are already full and criminals are let go before they should because of the lack of space. Most of those criminals have done far worse things than run. I don’t condone running though.

Does the public really have a say in that speeding is enforced? If the cops try too hard then we complain. The cops started a week long citation area and rather than about and 1/4 to a 1/2 mile backup every day, it was 5 miles long. They kept at it until enough people complained they quit. This was all because people would drive on the shoulder to get on another major road. So rather than fixing the road and making an on-ramp that could be used (there was a light 100 feet up the road, so when people stopped for the light you would either need to use the shoulder or wait) they decided to ticket people. All they did was make traffic proportionally worse.

There are also areas where the speed drops for a mile and then picks back up again. I know one place where the road went into another county for mile and in that space it went from 65 to 55 and then back to 65. There would always be a cop there.
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Old 02-18-2008, 8:56 PM   #40
 
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Re: Police Officer Indicted for High Speed Motorcycle Chase

Originally Posted by sheepofblue View Post
Nope I didn't, the cop was not right. However you need to get better friends. I would have nothing to do with people that acted that way and thus would not have had a cop mad at me. It does not excuse his loss of control but you never know he might had to peel some squid off the pavement the day before But the thing that stands out is that you CHOSE to associate with people that are doing 100+ on the road by a cop. Lie with dogs and you will get fleas
first off, i wasn't riding ' with them' when they flew by the cop (was in a parking lot watching them go by), and they didn't do it on purpose either, they didn't even know he was there...and you never speed on the road 'at all' ? Come on man....i can't force my friends not to speed,just like you could not with yours... alot of us do it....sorry bro, but i don't have a 'track' in my back yard to go fly around like many of you guys here....people are going to ride the way they choose, and i could show you quite a few guys that can hit some over 100mph corners around here, that are FAR from being 'squids'....the bike scene around my area is HUGE ! Would be awesome to have a track to go to locally and have fun...
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Old 02-19-2008, 1:50 AM   #41
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Re: Police Officer Indicted for High Speed Motorcycle Chase

Guys and girls, this is why some of us continue to have a problem. We can't even agree among ourselves. It is almost irrelevant as to who was at fault in this case. Why? BECAUSE BOTH WERE AT FAULT! If we want the police to change their attitudes towards us and the laws that govern us, we have to change first.

Put simply, we need to come up with some plain ground rules for bikers that ensure safety for ourselves and others as well as developing better relationships with LEOs. Once those rules are in place and bikers are following them, the change will be seen by those LEOs and those who have been complaining to them about our behavior on the road.

It will take a long time for this to happen, so it is imperative we start focusing on this issue now. Only by coming together as a collective entity that is following the rules will we have a stable platform to debate from and grounds for changes to be made within the law enforcement community.

I am a great lover of bikes (sports bikes in particular) and I truly enjoy the community spirit among us, both on this forum and on the open road. However, I fear that this freedom of expression will one day be closed to us because some feel that 'running' from LEOs is better/cool or just their god-given right. We must hold ourselves to high-standards, too.

Equally, I strongly believe that some LEOs need to address their egos. Therefore, in any debate I would ask that any LEO who exhibits signs of temper and aggression when in control of a police vehicle must be put up in front of an examining committee to assess whether changes in their lives would require a suspension from road patrol duties until the problem/issue is resolved.

As I said earlier, I would welcome our LEO members input of this matter as it may well help us determine what is required in order to make this grand change.
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Old 02-19-2008, 2:02 AM   #42
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Re: Police Officer Indicted for High Speed Motorcycle Chase

Originally Posted by lanbrown View Post
Take the bike portion out of it.
To what end? This thread is all about bikes and the way bikers are treated by the police. Why take 50% out of the equation?


Originally Posted by lanbrown View Post
As for a bike to carry the job out. The patrol officers need to be on a comfy motorcycle as they are on it most of the day. They also need room for all the electronics and their accessories like a ticket book. So they would need a sport bike with saddlebags; which isn’t going to work.
As I understand it, there are a number of bikers on this forum who carry additional kit on their bikes. What's wrong with a tank bag? Anyway, they don't have to carry so much if their task is sector specific! And as far as comfort is concerned, something can be done about that.

Anyway, Ian, you never answered the question. What in you opinion is it that makes cops act the way they do with us Sports bike riders? We have to answer these difficult questions in order to find a solution. Without understanding the reason we will only have a problem.

Last edited by Surffrog; 02-19-2008 at 2:06 AM. Reason: Forgot a bit!
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Old 02-19-2008, 2:45 AM   #43
 
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Re: Police Officer Indicted for High Speed Motorcycle Chase

why do police officers act like that toward sport bike riders? maybe cause they know that they are not the most powerfull force on the road anymore when someone shows with a bike that can go 180 mph? or maybe he is jelaous for not having a bike? its all about ego or maybe he's jealous cuse chicks are looking at us and not at him? hehehe

you guys can't tell me that you have sport bikes and you have never done any speeding. come on. speeding can be 5mph above speed limit. so you are telling me you have never done any speeding?

the only way for cops and sport bikers to be happy is that to build more tracks and that is expensive.

and tell me how not to do speeding on my bike when speed limits here are:

- in town and villages speed limit is 31 mph and somewhere is 37,5 mph.
- on the open road speed limit is 37,5 mph and somewhere is 50 mph
- on the highway speed limit is 80 mph

i think your speed limits are not that low. am i right?
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Old 02-19-2008, 2:48 AM   #44
 
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Re: Police Officer Indicted for High Speed Motorcycle Chase

surffrog....cops don't like getting smoked by sport bikes, some write it off and say 'oh well,he got away', and leave it at that ....and then you got some who hold a grudge, and are determined not to be beaten at the game, and they pursue at any speed...they take it as an insult to their authority i guess....sport bike riders, they just don't want to get the ticket is all...some may hate cops, i don't ...i always ran because i did not want to get the ticket....one of the guys in our group just got a $213 ticket the other night for doing 100 mph, the cop picked him off because he was on the bike riding in the back of our group of probably 10 or so bikes...
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Old 02-19-2008, 5:23 AM   #45
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Re: Police Officer Indicted for High Speed Motorcycle Chase

Originally Posted by low-rider View Post
why do police officers act like that toward sport bike riders? maybe cause they know that they are not the most powerfull force on the road anymore when someone shows with a bike that can go 180 mph? or maybe he is jelaous for not having a bike? its all about ego or maybe he's jealous cuse chicks are looking at us and not at him? hehehe
Ok Lowrider, if that's the case then we have to add that to the 'better evaluation of police officers' category. It may well be an ego issue. If so, something can be done about it, if it can be proved and if there are enough witnesses to get behind the complaint.

Originally Posted by low-rider View Post
you guys can't tell me that you have sport bikes and you have never done any speeding. come on. speeding can be 5mph above speed limit. so you are telling me you have never done any speeding?
Lowrider, believe it or not I credit you with more intelligence than that. I would never tell you that I hadn't broken the speeding laws. In fact, even though I took my bike test and got the licence here in Thailand, I genuinely couldn't tell you what the posted speed limit is in most places because it isn't posted anywhere. In addition, even if you were to wheelie up and down a busy high street next to police officer here (which I never have before anyone starts on me) , the chances are you wouldn't get stopped. What I'm bascially saying is that I may well be breaking the law every time I go out. Everyone here certainly does, but that doesn't mean I ride irresponsibly.

You see, I'm of the opinion that a lot of police around the world are reacting not because you are doing 5 or 10 mph over the limit but because there are a lot of idiots wheelie-ing up and down public areas or charging around like Captain Kirk in built up areas. As a consequence, you and a lot of others here on this forum are getting busted even when you don't do anything wrong. They probably think, "Well, he's not doing anything now, but i'll bet he was the one giving me the one-finger wave at 160 mph earlier this week!" Just visit You tube to see how often it happens. For every video on that site there must at least 10 or 20 who don't post their videos.


Originally Posted by low-rider View Post
the only way for cops and sport bikers to be happy is that to build more tracks and that is expensive.
This is not the only way, but I do understand your frustration, Lowrider. Work with me here. This pre-planning could help bring about a change in attitudes if enough people get behind it. But it needs change from both parties, not just the police.

Originally Posted by low-rider View Post
and tell me how not to do speeding on my bike when speed limits here are:

- in town and villages speed limit is 31 mph and somewhere is 37,5 mph.
- on the open road speed limit is 37,5 mph and somewhere is 50 mph
- on the highway speed limit is 80 mph

i think your speed limits are not that low. am i right?
Actually, Lowrider, those posted speeds are close enough to Uk posted speeds that it makes no difference. I'm fairly sure you can refrain from speeding, if you put your mind to it.
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Verizon High speed to Cable High Speed, WOW SilverBullet Off-Topic 20 08-27-2004 10:25 AM
High Speed Chase Skully Off-Topic 3 07-26-2003 11:29 PM



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