1st post, and yes, it's a problem

slickwill · 01-07-2008, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaneda_77

Hey,
You should post on here about the fact that your idle/mixture screws were messed with. These guys probly have some pics they can put up and you can do it yourself instead of taking it to your dealer. If they do, I may be able to help you.

His info says he is on an '02 F4i. There aren't any idle/mixture screws on an F4i. The "i" is for "injected."

kaneda_77 · 01-07-2008, 11:58 AM

Umm... there are still screws that you can adjust on the throttle bodies just like you can sync them as well. I may not call it the right thing, but they have them. Here is some of the comments from another site(it's not my wording and tough to read because of the pigeon here):

"is the stock idle screw still in its stock position or did someone jus unscrew it an moved it to the throttle stop with out replacing an adjuster screw... the stock idle screw goes to a diaphram looking thingy that controls air fuel or something like that, but i've heard of guys jus taking it out an not replacing it an ran fine an other ran like **** off bottom. my bike ran like **** of bottom so i have 2 idle screws... but yea the diaphram thingy is under the throttle body connected to the throttle body..

if the idle screw is on the rear side of the stator cover it should be connected to the diaphram thingy unless the previous owner got an extra long 1 an ran it to the throttle stop but kept it in the stock location... but for mines i set it to 1k-1.25k at running temp (180-225).. an leave it alone, an to adjust my idle for stunts with my second idle screw cable that goes to my throttle stop... romeoner said u was wanting to learn to stunt? well jus let 1 of us kno when u ready to set urs up theres a bunch of sensors to bypass an we already know wuts the good parts to get.. an i'll tell u now it ain't cheap..."

sospelotudo · 01-07-2008, 11:51 PM

the diaphragm thingy is, if I am not mistaken, the cold start enrichment. tomorrow I'll look at the service manual and give details on what can and cannot be adjusted.

sospelotudo · 01-08-2008, 6:47 PM

OK, the cold start enrichment circuits, which double as air bypass circuits, can be synchronized. The #1, or left most cylinder, is the base and should not/cannot be adjusted, the other three cylinders all have adjustment capablities. You will need to disconnect and plug the reed valve on the valve cover. Leave the hose open to atmosphere. Connect your carb sticks to the vacuum ports on the intake runners/ throttle bodies and sync' them all to match the #1. Make sure your bike is at operating temp, and keep the idle near 1300 RPM by adjusting the throttle stop screw. After you have finished, reconnect the reed valve hose and adjust the idle back to 1300.

kaneda_77 · 01-08-2008, 11:24 PM

He doesn't need to know how to sync his throttle bodies. I was using that as an example.

His plugs and coil packs were to blame according to honda(and his update on another forum.)

-Z- · 01-08-2008, 11:48 PM

So is the problem fixed then?

I had an 01 F4i, and it didn't behave that way.

I was about to suggest a 3-dollar bottle of fuel injector cleaner just in case.

Other than that, I was also thinking air filter...assuming that the engine is okay, and nothing has screwed up the injectors or plugs, it's possible that if the air filter were clogged, it wouldn't allow the proper amount of air in when at WOT, and the engine would struggle and/or die like when you flood the engine on a lawnmower/weed-wacker.

sospelotudo · 01-09-2008, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaneda_77

Hey,
You should post on here about the fact that your idle/mixture screws were messed with. These guys probly have some pics they can put up and you can do it yourself instead of taking it to your dealer. If they do, I may be able to help you.

Your post states "fact" so I thought maybe you actually knew for a "fact" that his "idle/mixture screws" had been messed with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaneda_77

He doesn't need to know how to sync his throttle bodies. I was using that as an example...)

Since the start enrichment circuits adjustment and the sync'ing procedure are one and the same, and believing that it was a "fact" that his "idle/mixture screws" had been messed with, he would have needed to know how to sync' his throttle bodies. (How was that used as an example by the way? Please note that it wasted lots of time since around 10 posts are referencing your post.) There is only one idle screw and it is adjusted with a knob isn't it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaneda_77

His plugs and coil packs were to blame according to honda(and his update on another forum.)

Interesting that it was the plugs and coil-packs, was it all four cylinders? Coil packs usually don't go bad too often, and all four definitely didn't go bad. If his plugs were fouled then he will be visiting the dealer again shortly, because that is a symptom of another problem and not the problem itself.

kaneda_77 · 01-11-2008, 4:11 AM

It's kind of a moot point now, but I wasn't making a court case there Perry Mason. You have no idea how many questions we had to ask to get that much information.. lol. It's been a very confusing interrogation.

There is some adjustment screw that some f4i guys remove or adjust that was apparently messed with. I was only relaying information from a local forum so that he could get help. Another f4i guy was using that as speculation from his own experience. I was hoping to get more info on it to see what kind of similarities it has with my 929.

Also, I was saying that you can sync your throttle bodies just like you can sync carbs or vice versa. I was just making the point that throttle bodies have similar functions as carbs and adjustments can be made.

Like I said, I am only relaying information that I read from another forum and was interested in the solution. The plugs were not the right kind AND I think he just ordered all new coil packs.

sospelotudo · 01-12-2008, 5:18 PM

I am not trying to make a court case either, I was just trying to help. Unlike many people that respond to these requests, I work at a Honda (Multi-line) dealer as a tech for a living. There is a logical sequence to troubleshooting and I was just trying to base my advice on the information provided. No worries.

kaneda_77 · 01-12-2008, 6:37 PM

I appreciate it.. the funny thing is I don't know if he'll return here to even see the suggestions that people gave him. lol.

since you are a tech, the throttle bodies on the f4i should be pretty similar to a 929 correct?

sospelotudo · 01-13-2008, 1:38 AM

Kaneda: They are very similar, but may not interchange. I would never need to try it since I work at a dealership. We usually use new Honda parts and order them by part number for the bike we are working on. The three main things to look at are the distances between bores, the diameter of the bores, and the setting of the TPS. If the TPS and the bore centers are the same, then it will work, but the diameter will have an effect on the performance, if you go larger you will probably have more lag on acceleration. Also the start enrichment circuit will probably not be setup right.

kaneda_77 · 01-14-2008, 1:19 AM

Thanks for the info. I was wondering mostly from the perspective that if the setup is the same or similar, that little adjustments done on the f4i's could theoretically be done on my bike.(ie that screw that they are talking about) I'm gonna check back with the guy in the other forum and see if he has the proper identification of that screw that he is mentioning.

So as a tech, can you reprogram ECU/CDI's? could you theoretically adjust the ecu to do what a power commander does when someone puts on a custom exhaust ... etc? I mentioned on another post that some yamahas can be programmed from the guages to richen or lean a bike, but learned that hondas can't. I'm always interested to learn from someone who has working professional knowledge of systems.

sospelotudo · 01-15-2008, 1:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaneda_77

Thanks for the info. I was wondering mostly from the perspective that if the setup is the same or similar, that little adjustments done on the f4i's could theoretically be done on my bike.(ie that screw that they are talking about)

They are essentially the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaneda_77

So as a tech, can you reprogram ECU/CDI's? could you theoretically adjust the ecu to do what a power commander does when someone puts on a custom exhaust ... etc?

As a tech...no. Theoretically, however, the eprom might be flashable. I am at Honda HQ training tomorrow, I'll ask. Some manufacturers sell a programmable ECU/ECM (Kawi does), but they are off-highway only in CA(so are Power Commanders and jet kits, no one seems to give a mad F@#!.) I can't really believe that Yamaha has programmability off the shelf, sounds like an emissions violation to me, and I don't even care (imagine if I were EPA or something). As A tech, we can be held personally responsible for emissions violations and fined 25,000 per violation. Remember that when a shop declines installing some aftermarket kit...

kaneda_77 · 01-15-2008, 1:26 AM

Very interesting. Thank you.

Hahah... I totally jacked this thread.

sospelotudo · 01-15-2008, 1:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaneda_77

Hahah... I totally jacked this thread.

Tru dat

vietladin · 01-15-2008, 3:55 PM

I had my bike diagnosed at Honda, and they told me my coils were bad, and that the plugs that I bought from a local bike shop, were for the earlier year f4i. So, I have ordered the correct plugs, and bought brand new coil packs. I will update, after installation. Also, please read my other thread about my headlight issue, so that I can ride my bike again.

kaneda_77 · 01-18-2008, 12:46 AM

What do we look like? Your personal mechanics?.. lol. I'll take a look.

vietladin · 01-29-2008, 7:11 PM

Here's is the update: Put in brand new coilpacks, and changed my plugs, to the correct ones. Guess what happened? Bike still runs exactly the same. Here's another thing, that I find strange, bike bogs out waaaaaaaaay worse when it's cold. I was borrowing my friends cbr600rr, and even when I was riding it right after a cold start, it was tolerable. On my bike, I have a hard time keeping it on, when it's cold. Maybe it's my coolant temp sensor? If so, why would the bike feel good, only at 2500 rpm's and up? That doesn't make any sense.

sospelotudo · 01-29-2008, 11:03 PM

your bike is lean. it could be your temp sensor. also, make sure your cold start actuator is working and that the throttle bodies are adjusted right.

blue1000rr · 01-29-2008, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vietladin

I was borrowing my friends cbr600rr, and even when I was riding it right after a cold start, it was tolerable. On my bike, I have a hard time keeping it on, when it's cold.

i would suggest letting the bike warm up before riding it. i let mine reach 120 degrees before i even throw a leg over it. ive always been told it's hard on it to ride it cold.

sospelotudo · 01-29-2008, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue1000rr

i would suggest letting the bike warm up before riding it. i let mine reach 120 degrees before i even throw a leg over it. ive always been told it's hard on it to ride it cold.

, but it doesn't need to idle to that temp, you can rev it a little bit (<3000 or so) to help the progress. It should run by itself, however, even cold.

vietladin · 01-30-2008, 1:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sospelotudo

, but it doesn't need to idle to that temp, you can rev it a little bit (<3000 or so) to help the progress. It should run by itself, however, even cold.

I know it's not good to ride it cold. I live in a in the back of a 6 house community, and i'm sure they don't appreciate my bike starting at 500 in the morning. So, I ride it up the hill, then let it warm up. I was offered a decent amount for my bike, so i'm applying for a loan to make up the difference, to pick up another bike. We shall see after this weekend.

vietladin · 01-30-2008, 8:01 PM

How hard is it to adjust the throttle bodies?

sospelotudo · 01-31-2008, 1:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sospelotudo

OK, the cold start enrichment circuits, which double as air bypass circuits, can be synchronized. The #1, or left most cylinder, is the base and should not/cannot be adjusted, the other three cylinders all have adjustment capabilities. You will need to disconnect and plug the reed valve on the valve cover. Leave the hose open to atmosphere. Connect your carb sticks to the vacuum ports on the intake runners/ throttle bodies and sync' them all to match the #1. Make sure your bike is at operating temp, and keep the idle near 1300 RPM by adjusting the throttle stop screw. After you have finished, reconnect the reed valve hose and adjust the idle back to 1300.

please see above, the hardest part is finding the carb sticks.

vietladin · 01-31-2008, 6:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sospelotudo

please see above, the hardest part is finding the carb sticks.

Well, I called Honda, and they told me it would cost 100 dollars plus tax, so I think i'm gonna have them do it. On Monday, i'm gonna have them diagnose the bike again.

vietladin · 01-31-2008, 6:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sospelotudo

your bike is lean. it could be your temp sensor. also, make sure your cold start actuator is working and that the throttle bodies are adjusted right.

It could be too lean, or too rich, right? Either or, would cause the bike to bog, right?

sospelotudo · 02-01-2008, 1:02 AM

Incorrect. Rule of thumb: runs good cold=rich, runs crappy cold=lean

vietladin · 02-01-2008, 2:50 PM

Here's another question; When I start my bike and it's really cold, it doesn't idle higher, then drop when it's warmed up. I know my car does that, but do all bikes do that as well? I mean, it was rainy, and pretty damn cold today, when I started my bike up. It just idled the same, the whole time.