[08cbr600rr]

Is downshifting harmful to a motorcycle or is it ok as long as the rpms become low enough?

[slickwill]

You have to downshift, otherwise you'd be riding around in 6th gear all the time.

Do you mean downshifting to get more engine braking? As long as you match your revs on the downshift then you won't cause any problems. You should just always match your RPM's to the situation. In hard braking situations there isn't any point to downshifting because you won't have any weight on the back tire anyway and downshifting before you get slowed is just more likely to lock the rear tire. In a pure panic stop, brakes only. About the only time that I downshift to control is speed is in traffic on the freeway. Say I'm cruising along in 6th and traffic starts to slow then I will downshift to 4th or 5th. More so that I am ready to accellerate with traffic again if it speeds up than for the sake of braking. However, if you do downshift just for the sake of slowing down you want to at least tap your brake lever to warn traffic behind you. To many people on MC's just use engine braking to slow and it is hard to judge that if you are in a car behind them. Generally I always use my brakes to slow down and then downshift as needed to make sure I'm in the right gear for the speed I'm going.

Obviously you also don't want to be at 15K RPM's and then downshift because you will just send your RPM's through the redline.

[Twincam]

Originally Posted by slickwill

Obviously you also don't want to be at 15K RPM's and then downshift because you will just send your RPM's through the redline....

... and probably lose control of the tail.

Wouldnt a slipper clutch banish this problem? I must have heard or rear somewhere that no matter what rev you are doing, what speed, you can drop say into 1st and it will NOT lock up/throw you off/go to the red line or anything like that?

[HondaGalToo]

Just blip the throttle to match the revs when downshifting. Good technique to master.

Yeah, a slipper should help, but if you're really hamfisted, you can still lock the rear wheel.

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by 08cbr600rr

Is downshifting harmful to a motorcycle or is it ok as long as the rpms become low enough?

Do it all the time, as others have said, match the revs the best you can and go with it. I downshift on the track and do not get the revs right all the time. Little sliding, no big deal.

Originally Posted by HondaGalToo

Yeah, a slipper should help, but if you're really hamfisted, you can still lock the rear wheel.

Not really, On Kawboy's bike (04' ZX 10) you could drop it into 1st from the end of the straight and let go of the clutch, no slippage.

[Doomwitha929]

brakes are for slowing down. Clutch is for transmitting engine turning force to the rear wheels via the drive train etc. Just use the parts for what they were designed, that usually works the best. This of course does not always apply to certain parts of women.

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by Doomwitha929

brakes are for slowing down. Clutch is for transmitting engine turning force to the rear wheels via the drive train etc. Just use the parts for what they were designed, that usually works the best. This of course does not always apply to certain parts of women.

Not exactly true:
The engine can be used as a braking devise
The brakes can help you steer

[sospelotudo]

Downshifting is great, I think that Slickwill has the most relevant advice here. I probably tend to use it too frequently, personally. Slipper clutches come in many forms and work to varying degrees, no need to argue about it, ladies and gentlemen. Just like some LSD diffs (department of redundancy department) in cars use clutch plates and shims to control the amount of power transfer to the wheels, slipper clutches can be setup for different uses. Now about the women's parts...please be more specific, send pictures or video if at all possible

[Doomwitha929]

LOL Sospeloyudo!
Originally Posted by Doomwitha929 http://www.fireblades.org/forums/ima...s/viewpost.gif
brakes are for slowing down. Clutch is for transmitting engine turning force to the rear wheels via the drive train etc. Just use the parts for what they were designed, that usually works the best. This of course does not always apply to certain parts of women.

you will notice I said "usually" and the fact is that is "usually" true

[08cbr600rr]

Matching the Revs? Do you mean that I should only down shift when the revs are low enough to? I hear of people downshifting and locking up the back wheel;is this because the revs where high when they decided to downshift? I haven't put but 400 miles yet on my bike and its my first, I appreciate all the advice. I'm learning more and more everyday. I just didn't want to harm my engine by doing it the wrong way. Also, any advice on lowering the seat height? I'm only 5'6" and on my toes. Thanks

[HondaGalToo]

Originally Posted by 08cbr600rr

Matching the Revs? Do you mean that I should only down shift when the revs are low enough to? I hear of people downshifting and locking up the back wheel;is this because the revs where high when they decided to downshift? I haven't put but 400 miles yet on my bike and its my first, I appreciate all the advice. I'm learning more and more everyday. I just didn't want to harm my engine by doing it the wrong way. Also, any advice on lowering the seat height? I'm only 5'6" and on my toes. Thanks

By matching revs, I'm talking about "blipping" the throttle right before downshifting. What that does is bring the revs up to what the next gear requires. You could wait and downshift when the revs are low enough, as you stated, because if the revs are still too high for the next lower gear, the rear wheel will lock. You're right about that. Blipping is a good skill to learn. It's a bit hard to explain online, but the idea is, that just prior to downshifting, you pull in the clutch, give the throttle a blip to raise the rpms, downshift, smoothly let out clutch. You do all these things almost simultaneously. When you get it right, you'll hear the rpms go up on your bike, and feel it slow just a bit, but there will be no jerk, no rear wheel lock.

If you just slam it down to the next lower gear without matching revs, it can lock the rear wheel in the worst case scenerio, or at least it'll jerk pretty badly. Just like a car if you dump the clutch too fast. The other way is, as you stated, to roll off the throttle, slowing down and letting the rpms drop, then downshifting. This works, but isn't as efficient. If you ever get into track riding, learning the blip will be a necessity.

Lower your bike? At 5'6"? I'm 5'4" and have never lowered anything. Lowering will decrease your ground clearance and can make the bike handle improperly.

First bike is a brand new 600rr? Whew, you'd have been better off with something older and used! Take it slow!

[Dave213]

^ I agree. You can flat foot it..... 1 side at a time. You're good to go. As for blipping, it seems like this is your 1st bike and you have very few miles of experience. Don't worry about blipping yet. Concentrate on not crashing.

[HondaGalToo]

Originally Posted by Dave213

^ I agree. You can flat foot it..... 1 side at a time. You're good to go. As for blipping, it seems like this is your 1st bike and you have very few miles of experience. Don't worry about blipping yet. Concentrate on not crashing.

Yeah, I agree. Blipping's good to learn, but I just realized you have very few miles under your belt. I'd not worry about blipping just yet. Slow down before you downshift to let the rpms drop. Get proficient at starting, stopping, steering. Worry about blipping after you've got a good season under your belt. Did you take an MSF class? If not, I highly recommend it.

[sospelotudo]

"If only we had slipper clutches in our cbr 600 rrs," he said bitterly...Anyway, yes learn to ride to live before worrying about details. Let it suffice to say that you shouldn't downshift above 7 or 6 grand in a turn...and even then release the clutch as though you were just taking off in first. Let the engine catch up with the gearbox.

[Gothy]

yeah,
then when you get onto the straight,
drop down a gear (or 2), keep the clutch in,
Then really give it some, then dump the clutch.
Lets see a good wheelie

[Ol' Gravy Leg]

it's his first bike, don't post crap like that!

and, he shouldn't be leaning that far over in a turn (nor with rpm's that high) to even has most of this discussion.

OP, you do have your motorcylce license, right? Like HG2, I *strongly* recommend a MSF course! And don't go ridding with anyone unless it's an instructor.

I just read about a guy with the same experience as you dying. (just got his MC permit the day before).

[Doomwitha929]

stop trying to do the wrong thing with the wrong part. If you are down shifting so hard you have to play tricks like throttle matching you are down shifting too far. If you down shift and are locking up the tire or getting loose you are down shifting too hard. None of that BS is needed for street riding. If you are in a given gear at a suitable RPM to down shift to the previous gear there is NO need for any racer boy tricks. You are not helping prolong the clutch either by doing that. You put more wear and stress through the clutch in one good hard full power up shift then in a day of down shifting.

[CBR929RE]

Originally Posted by HondaGalToo

Lower your bike? At 5'6"? I'm 5'4" and have never lowered anything. Lowering will decrease your ground clearance and can make the bike handle improperly.

First bike is a brand new 600rr? Whew, you'd have been better off with something older and used! Take it slow!

he should be thankful he has those 2 inches on us.

Just as HGT said, take it slow. don't try to do anything to fast or it could lead to trouble. there's enough to worry about when riding on the street other than that perfect downshift. you probably aren't riding very high in the rpm range right now anyway so downshifting probably isn't a problem. once the revs are low pull the clutch in shift down a gear and slowly let the clutch out. same as you're doing when you upshift just its backwards.

[HondaGalToo]

Originally Posted by Doomwitha929

stop trying to do the wrong thing with the wrong part. If you are down shifting so hard you have to play tricks like throttle matching you are down shifting too far. If you down shift and are locking up the tire or getting loose you are down shifting too hard.

I agree with the locking up the rear wheel part being the result of a poorly executed downshift, but "playing tricks" like throttle matching?? That's not a trick, it's a good skill to learn (eventually, not for a noob) and it does not hurt the clutch at all. I use it all the time. Sure, it's a skill more necessary on the track, but I use it in street riding, too. Matching rpms with a throttle blip will prevent a rear wheel lockup.

[Doomwitha929]

My point being you SHOULDNT be locking the wheel up when down shifting at all there for if you are doing things right there is no reason for throttle blipping. You should be slowing the bike with controlled braking and "following" the decelleration with down shifts. As you know from racing you dont brake in the corner but befor it and accelerate out. At what point going into a turn or for any reason would using engine braking be better then the brakes? When you brake the bike loads the front end allowing you to brake even harder because of the greater force on the front tire. When you engine brake you are usig the limmited rear tire traction to slow you. Even worse the faster and harder you do it the more it unloads the rear making it more likly the rear will break loose.
I can think of no instance when using the engine over the brakes is a more efficent way of slowing the bike.

[HondaGalToo]

Gotcha, agreed on the engine braking. I don't use engine braking to slow the bike, I use the brakes (front), and simultaneously blip the throttle to downshift, so the revs are properly matched so I don't lock the rear wheel. This is on the track. No, it's probably not necessary to use this technique on the street. But on the track, in my opinion, you need to blip. When you ride/rode the track, you just slowed down enough to drop the bike into the next lower gear? No blipping? You'd be like the only one I know of who didn't use a rev match technique on the track. Since I don't race, I don't trail brake. All my braking and downshifting is done prior to turn-in. My gixxer has a slipper clutch, but I still use this technique, as it's become ingrained. To each his own.

[Donnyballgame]

The engine is the most expensive, and least precise brake you have on the bike. I prefer to match revs on the downshift to get into the correct gear for the corner however, I use the Brake Calipers to do the major braking for me when I get to my marks.

[oldnslow]

If you don't know how to downshift, what are you doing on an 08 600rr?
That is way too much bike for someone that doesn't know how to ride.

[CBR929RE]

blipping the throttle to match revs is intended to get the tranny and engine going the same speed before you connect them together with the clutch. its less wear on every part involved and its smoother. but yes not really necessary at street speeds. for a noob don't even worry about it, most likely you aren't riding hard enough to lock the rear wheel with a downshift anyway. and on a 600 you'd have to slam it into 1st at high revs to get it to lock.

so to the guy who started this thread. just concentrate on the basics of riding. if you have a friend who is patient and willing to help you learn and who will watch out for you rather than try to prove he's better go out and ride with them. I used to do this with some friends all the time. sometimes I'd follow them and sometimes I'd have them follow me making sure I stayed with them even though I was in front.