F2 vs F3 vs F4?

Rickracer · 05-19-2009, 12:55 PM

I prefer to be gone down on, but that's another subject...

Check out this site: Gearing Commander: Motorcycle Gearing Ratio Sprocket RPM Speed Chain Calculator
According to that site, with stock equipment, the F3 theoretically could get to 169 at redline, but doesn't look like it would with -1 tooth, unless it had a taller tire, and enough power to turn it.

Rickracer giveth, and Rickracer taketh away,

Rickracer · 05-19-2009, 1:01 PM

BTW, my '93 F2 will hit 14,000+ in high gear on the dyno, and it's a stock long block, jetted bigtime, with my own home brewed shorty exhaust with a shortened D&D muffler, -1 on the front, stock rear sprocket. It goes 11.20s at 120 in the 1/4 mile.

Also, weight doesn't matter much on top speed runs, but it matters a lot for handling and acceleration, aerodynamics matter a lot past about 120~130 too.

whiteknuckled08 · 05-19-2009, 2:17 PM

Now if you run the custom option on the calculator up to 14550 rpm to where my BIKE would rev. with the powerpack. theoretically the top speed is 183 mph. And down 1 tooth on the front it says 170.8 mph.
And i did squeeze a 190/55/17 tire with about 1/8-1/4" of room to spare from rubbing on the chain.

THANK YOU RICKRACER FOR THE AMMO TO PROVE MY POINT...

Skikamukazi · 05-19-2009, 2:24 PM

Fine. Theoretically I'm done arguing this.

You said there are two kinds of riders, I hope you don't ride at those speeds all the time, or you will be the latter.

Rickracer · 05-19-2009, 2:33 PM

I currently run a Shinko 190 on the rear of my F2 too, but I'm due for a new one soon, so I'm looking for an F3 wheel (1/2" wider), and I'll probably drop down to a 180 to get a little rounder profile on the tire. The 190 "looks like a car tire on there" according to some folks, and it's great for drag racing, but my bike is a daily driver also, and the 190 doesn't corner quite as well as I'd like it to. I think going with a little wider wheel and a little smaller tire will get me where I wanna be.

whiteknuckled08 · 05-19-2009, 2:53 PM

yeah i agree about the 190 tire not cornering as well as a 180 will, but that was a last minute before a ride purchase because my old tire was down to canvas.

And i enjoy a quick burst of speed now. but like i said in my earlier post i wreck that bike three times. Back when i was young, dumb, full of... well you get the point.

Skikamukazi · 05-19-2009, 4:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiteknuckled08

And i enjoy a quick burst of speed now. but like i said in my earlier post i wreck that bike three times. Back when i was young, dumb, full of... well you get the point.

Haha I haven't heard that one in a while!!

tumminello123 · 05-30-2009, 12:22 AM

Did you see my pics of my F3? It's a 1996 F3 with a 1997 engine I got for $850 on Craigslist. Ugly, but unreal fast since it has been jetted and 20,000 miles.

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/p...3/SSPX0041.jpg
http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/p...3/SSPX0042.jpg

Nates01929 · 05-30-2009, 12:52 AM

I'd say if you can find a good deal on a F3 then go for it, like 2k or less. I started on a 98 F3 and loved it!

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2771/cbr5mq5.jpg

jneedee · 06-27-2009, 11:30 AM

I have owned 2 F2, 2 F3s, and and F4 and F4i. (other Hondas include VFR's, Hawk NT650s, NSR a VTR an RC51)...

Bottom line:

The fastest (top speed) of the above has been my 91 'F2. As has always been typical of Honda, the first rendition of a major engine overhaul has been the best. Honda's, almost as a rule, lose between 1-3% of the original horsepower of the "original" engine, every rendition, and sometimes every year.

The biggest difference in these bikes is generally the handling characteristics. Some are lighter, some have better brakes, some are jetted better out of the box, etc, etc.

Owning some of these bikes side by side allows me to make a very fair comparison and even moreso, interchanging some of their parts made creating the best hybrid possible.

Although I still own an F3, F2, R6 and YZF600, my favourite (and fastest, best handing, strongest motor - although unfair comparison), is my F2. I decided that the F2 motor was the strongest and then went on to install a 637 big bore kit, upgraded the front suspension to f3 internal (I kept the F2 lowers since the F2 brakes were superior), the rear suspension to F4 and a few other minor mods. I can honestly tell you that if you are so inclined, such a bike will do more than simply "keep up" with today's machines, fuel injected or not. The power and flickability of my F2 is unbelievable. I listed it for sale twice this spring since I'm trying to make some space in my garage but after having been pushed by the wife and offered my asking price twice, turned it down each time. I just couldn't get around how much bike there is and how I would go about replacing my F2 should I choose to. I ended up selling my f4i instead for only $200 more than I was asking for my F2 because I felt so bad for one of the buyers. Essentially, what I'm saying is, when it comes to Honda's, the earlier bikes are EXTREME gems that people (who have ridden the family of bike), come to appreciate over time and the facade of technology.

I read on here somewhere on this thread that the "technology" of 90's bikes don't compare (and I believe the comment was directed to the engine technology). Whomever said that doesn't have a clue. The "technology" of the newer bikes relies simply on weight and handling, the engines themselves have absolutely no new technology that would put them over on 90's bikes and even some 80's bikes. Basically, the last real effective technology introduced to bike engines was liquid cooling; being that overhead cams existed long before.. Other than that (piston and chamber design, materials, fuel injection and any other "technology" introduced in the new millennium) any functions other than lowering unsprung weight, could be defeated by going on a diet and working out.

I've been riding for a long time and still consider myself an aggressive rider; someone with plenty of experience, both in motorcycling, motorcycles, technology and hearing B.S. and most of what I read on these threads are Opinion. Everyone has one so it's value is limited to Zero. What common sense should tell you is that if a bike made in the very early 90's can do a 11.14 quarter mile time and it's great grandchild can only muster a tenth faster with similar top speeds, then you are splitting hairs and worrying yourself with things that truly will never matter to you.

This isn't rocket science. Go with your gut.

Regards to all those who KNOW...

Cbrfrenzie · 07-07-2009, 6:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jneedee

Although I still own an F3, F2, R6 and YZF600, my favourite (and fastest, best handing, strongest motor - although unfair comparison), is my F2. I decided that the F2 motor was the strongest and then went on to install a 637 big bore kit, upgraded the front suspension to f3 internal (I kept the F2 lowers since the F2 brakes were superior), the rear suspension to F4 and a few other minor mods.

I'm currently building my 1992 F2 up for a race bike, since I just got a 929 for the street. I've been struggling with the F2 solid front brake rotors, as they keep warping on me. I'm currently on my 3rd set and these are now warped too.

I know the F3 cartridge style fork innards are better then the F2 style, however I'm curious about your comment on the F2 brakes being better then the F3's larger full floating two piece rotor design. Do they offer an aftermarket rotor for the F2 that makes them better then the F3?

F2: Solid 276 mm rotor and 2 piston caliper
F3: Floating 296 mm rotor and 2 piston caliper

I'm also curious about your F2 that you stuffed the 636cc big bore into. What else have you done to the motor? (ie. ported and or shaved head, aftermarket cams, over-sized valves, Ignition control, lightened crank.... and so on). Was jetting the high compression 636 big bore pretty straight forward? Also, is this the Wiseco 13.0:1 636cc big bore kit? Have you dynoed the bike since these mods have been applied? I'll be starting a thread with my buildup, just curious about your response on the F2 brakes, and curious about your setup

jneedee · 07-07-2009, 6:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cbrfrenzie

I'm currently building my 1992 F2 up for a race bike, since I just got a 929 for the street. I've been struggling with the F2 solid front brake rotors, as they keep warping on me. I'm currently on my 3rd set and these are now warped too.

I know the F3 cartridge style fork innards are better then the F2 style, however I'm curious about your comment on the F2 brakes being better then the F3's larger full floating two piece rotor design. Do they offer an aftermarket rotor for the F2 that makes them better then the F3?

F2: Solid 276 mm rotor and 2 piston caliper
F3: Floating 296 mm rotor and 2 piston caliper

I'm also curious about your F2 that you stuffed the 636cc big bore into. What else have you done to the motor? (ie. ported and or shaved head, aftermarket cams, over-sized valves, Ignition control, lightened crank.... and so on). Was jetting the high compression 636 big bore pretty straight forward? Also, is this the Wiseco 13.0:1 636cc big bore kit? Have you dynoed the bike since these mods have been applied? I'll be starting a thread with my buildup, just curious about your response on the F2 brakes, and curious about your setup

My mistake for omitting the bit about EBC's floating rotor kit. The ebc's give better feel without the initial bite of the F3's stock brakes. And yeah, those solid rotors do not do anyone any good off the street. For the street they are fine, but take them to the track and ... warp city.

As for the Wiseco kit, it is the 13:1 big bore kit. Jetting was a cinch (although I can't remember what I did at this time). I didn't want to bother with anything else (porting: too expensive and hit/miss, cams - too unstreetable - I didn't even go with a thinner head gasket.). I basically wanted a fun project and a faster street bike which is what I achieved. I have not dynoed it and probably won't unless the dyno comes to me (on a track day perhaps).

Good luck with your project!
dynoed

Rickracer · 07-07-2009, 7:36 PM

My 93 has drilled rotors, but they are not vented, I don't think they are floating, it has two piston calipers that float. I don't think I've ever seen vented rotors on a bike. I just bought a set for my race kart though,

Cbrfrenzie · 07-08-2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jneedee

My mistake for omitting the bit about EBC's floating rotor kit. The ebc's give better feel without the initial bite of the F3's stock brakes. And yeah, those solid rotors do not do anyone any good off the street. For the street they are fine, but take them to the track and ... warp city.

Ok, that makes allot more sense!! The EBC floating rotor conversion kit takes it to 310mm, which is bigger then both F2 and F3 setups. This would be ideal for my setup, as I already have the 94 F2 upgraded cartridge style forks. The only draw back is the cheapest I can find these rotors are for $191 EACH (with free pads), making it a $382 upgrade. I've been aquiring F3 front end parts to do the swap, but I still need to purchase the F3 forks.

Sooo, $382 for the EBC kit, or a set of F3 forks and run the F3 setup. Anyone want to sell me some 95+ F3 forks for cheap

?

jneedee,
One thing I did to my F2 that netted the biggest gain so far was a Dynatek programmable ignition controller, the Dyna2000. It replaces the factor CDI box and lets me program 4 different timing curves (Timing vs RPM) with a max advance of 40 degrees. It also lets you set the rev limiter to whatever you want. Adding timing sooner and more timing up top netted a 7.4 ft-lb increase in torque

, as well as shifted the torque curve slightly to the left on my most aggressive curve. I'll bet with your big bore you could get even more then that!