CBR charging/electrical fault. Grrrr

locksmithuk · 01-19-2009, 7:44 PM

Hello

Is anyone out there able to suggest an electrical check which may save my CBR600 from being launched over a cliff? Short of replacing the reg/rec (see below) I've tried almost everything I can think of to get this baby fixed.

Basics: while I'm riding, bike will start to behave in a way very similar to fuel running dry (i.e. spluttering, jerky movements) until the engine dies. When I try to restart, the engine will turn (strongly) but not fire. If I leave it for an hour or so it usually decides to start again. The bike will behave for another 4 weeks or so, then revert to type.

Possible diagnoses: faulty battery, faulty regulator/rectifier, faulty alternator (maybe - see no. 4 below), or faulty electrical circuit/wiring.

1. Battery is new (this problem existed with my old battery anyway). Have charged and
tested voltage & current of new battery to death. ALL is fine when on & off.

2. Reg/rec: no visible signs of frying, overheating or damage. In addition, ALL wiring tests
with a voltmeter on the reg/rec pass the most comprehensive faultfinding process known
to man (see diagram etc at http://www.electrosport.com/technica...g-diagram.pdf). There is NO test on here that my battery & reg/rec
fail.

3. Faulty circuit: always a possibility, esp a headlight check, as the circuitry here can
suck out electrical juice. A complete circuitry check (incl a check for loose wires &
connections) is something I've only done superficially, as it's a bitch to do.

4. Alternator: my lights do fade & flicker occasionally when I ride, and I know this can point
to alternator problem on cars. However, my mechanic (who's been servicing & racing
bikes for 25 years) claims he's only ever replaced one dodgy alternator on a Honda. So,
it's possible, but unlikely given the course of Honda history so far.

I've heard lots of cries to replace my reg/rec (based on the fact that it's a common CBR problem), but the evidence proves otherwise, and I'm not convinced. The alternator flickering seems plausible but the lack of fault history makes it unlikely.

Before I go and test everything to death (and spend money which I don't need to), does anyone have any other ideas on possible faults?

Many thanks
Darren

firebladeking · 01-19-2009, 9:16 PM

Darren,
I'm surprised you start by saying "bike will start to behave in a way very similar to fuel running dry " yet you don't list that as a diagnosis?
have you checked the fuel lines? any crap in the bottom of the tank? does the problem happen with full and empty tank? what model CBR600? ie carb or fuel injected, possibly dirty carbs? blocked main jet?

personally i would rule out the electrics first, next time it plays up, whip off a plug lead pop in a old plug and test for spark, if you have spark you are looking in the wrong place.

does the battery run flat? or does it keep it's charge? with the bike idling do you get +-15V across the battery terminals?

sounds like a fuel delivery problem to me

locksmithuk · 01-19-2009, 10:01 PM

FBK, I think I'd overlooked the problem as a fuel-related one because the problems started around the time that my previous battery conked out. In hindsight I think this was a coincidence & the battery's time was up anyway.

Fuel lines have been looked at but with the crap weather I'll re-examine for any clogging & perishing, and will shine a light inside the tank to check for muck (by the way the problem occurs irrespective of the level of fuel in the tank).

The bike is a '98 CBR600F, carb-injected. During the last service I asked my mechanic to check the carb area in light of the problem. No reason to believe he overlooked this, but I will inspect myself as well.

Battery definitely holds charge, and delivers 13.5V to just under 15V at 2,500 and 5,000 revs respectively.

Thanks for the advice - will look at the fuel system tomorrow.

RidAnyThatRuns · 01-19-2009, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firebladeking

Darren,
I'm surprised you start by saying "bike will start to behave in a way very similar to fuel running dry " yet you don't list that as a diagnosis?
have you checked the fuel lines? any crap in the bottom of the tank? does the problem happen with full and empty tank? what model CBR600? ie carb or fuel injected, possibly dirty carbs? blocked main jet?

personally i would rule out the electrics first, next time it plays up, whip off a plug lead pop in a old plug and test for spark, if you have spark you are looking in the wrong place.

does the battery run flat? or does it keep it's charge? with the bike idling do you get +-15V across the battery terminals?

sounds like a fuel delivery problem to me

firebladeking · 01-20-2009, 4:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by locksmithuk

Battery definitely holds charge, and delivers 13.5V to just under 15V at 2,500 and 5,000 revs respectively.

i would say nothing wrong with the altinator, regulator/rectifier with this info.

i would check the fuel filter, fuel pump, fuel cut off relay, and all breather pipes (for tank and carbs). maybe even a faulty fuel stop cock.

tricky3 · 02-05-2009, 9:16 PM

hi darren,i have same bike with very similar problems.only difference with me is i dont have a good local mechanic yet.i have changed regulator and still the same.i was gutted.did your bike when it was running rough have total speedo clock failure(not the speedo light)?as mine does.whatever is wrong with my bike is effecting the speedo supply.have you had any joy?if anyone can help i would be really grateful,richie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by locksmithuk

Hello

Is anyone out there able to suggest an electrical check which may save my CBR600 from being launched over a cliff? Short of replacing the reg/rec (see below) I've tried almost everything I can think of to get this baby fixed.

Basics: while I'm riding, bike will start to behave in a way very similar to fuel running dry (i.e. spluttering, jerky movements) until the engine dies. When I try to restart, the engine will turn (strongly) but not fire. If I leave it for an hour or so it usually decides to start again. The bike will behave for another 4 weeks or so, then revert to type.

Possible diagnoses: faulty battery, faulty regulator/rectifier, faulty alternator (maybe - see no. 4 below), or faulty electrical circuit/wiring.

1. Battery is new (this problem existed with my old battery anyway). Have charged and
tested voltage & current of new battery to death. ALL is fine when on & off.

2. Reg/rec: no visible signs of frying, overheating or damage. In addition, ALL wiring tests
with a voltmeter on the reg/rec pass the most comprehensive faultfinding process known
to man (see diagram etc at http://www.electrosport.com/technica...g-diagram.pdf). There is NO test on here that my battery & reg/rec
fail.

3. Faulty circuit: always a possibility, esp a headlight check, as the circuitry here can
suck out electrical juice. A complete circuitry check (incl a check for loose wires &
connections) is something I've only done superficially, as it's a bitch to do.

4. Alternator: my lights do fade & flicker occasionally when I ride, and I know this can point
to alternator problem on cars. However, my mechanic (who's been servicing & racing
bikes for 25 years) claims he's only ever replaced one dodgy alternator on a Honda. So,
it's possible, but unlikely given the course of Honda history so far.

I've heard lots of cries to replace my reg/rec (based on the fact that it's a common CBR problem), but the evidence proves otherwise, and I'm not convinced. The alternator flickering seems plausible but the lack of fault history makes it unlikely.

Before I go and test everything to death (and spend money which I don't need to), does anyone have any other ideas on possible faults?

Many thanks
Darren

locksmithuk · 02-06-2009, 6:26 AM

Hi Richie The weather, job hunting, a new bike, and general lack of time have stopped me from fixing the problem yet. My CBR currently sits in my garage waiting for TLC. However, I was never truly convinced the problem was the reg/rec (see my original post), and there's no visible sign of frying around the unit, so I haven't replaced it yet. I suspect the problem with my bike is probably going to be around fuel supply issues, not electrical ones. However, your speedo problem sounds odd, but I think you shouldn't assume it's directly connected to your cut-out problem, because your bike (like mine) doesn't have a digital speedo. You may be looking at 2 independent problems... or I would suggest you get a multimeter & do a battery test (see the link in my original post). Also check your connectors around the bike & in the headlight area, as I believe shorts around this area can suck your battery's juice. If all up to this point is fine then other electrical-related possibilities are the alternator & fuel pump (but I think Honda have a fairly good record in these 2 areas, so maybe leave this for now until necessary). Start thinking about checking your fuel system: check for sediment in the tank itself, as dirty fuel could block your carbs & fuel lines. Also check the fuel breather pipe. As far as your speedo problem's concerned maybe do a quick check on the fuel sensor connector (I think this is on the right-hand side of the bike just under tank level). If you need a service manual I have one on disc FOC. Good luck - it's a bitch trying to solve some electrical/fuel problems. Darren

flea001 · 02-08-2009, 4:06 PM

I would definitely check the breather lines. Totally different bike, but my Yamaha SRX6 was suffering from the same problem (choking, sputtering to a stall - took more than a few kicks to restart) and it turned out to be the breather on the fuel cap (found this out by riding with the key in the cap and popped it when it started to sputter -- came right back to life and kept going).

HTH

eamonhoffman · 09-23-2009, 1:14 PM

I'm having the same problem on my f4i and it IS electrical. The lights flicker when then engine acts up and the battery is almost entirely out of current once the Bike finally shuts off. If you've figured out a solution, please post it!