[LoopyLee]

Originally Posted by Surffrog

With the current improvements in design and build quality, I would be surprised if the power output doesn't increase quite a bit too

Sounds good to me... I just starting to really get used to my bike now. My 125 was a cruiser style bike so going up to a 400cc sports bike was totally unnvering to start with.. Today was the first day I really felt better on her..

There I was, quite happily riding to work, the sun was shining, the birds were singing (not that I could hear them) and all was good with the world...

So took it steady through the villages (obeying the speed limits!!), took it steady through the twisties (I'm still learning how she handles on bends) and then.... opened her up (just a bit, honest!! ) and watched the cars behind me fade into tiny dots in my mirrors..... It was such fun...

And the ride home tonight was even better, the corners felt much easier to take.. and boy.. she don't 'arf shift

[scorpi810]

My wife is learning to ride and that would be perfect to start out with. Something that beginners could ride for a while before getting bored with it. I started out on a 600rr, been riding for about a year and still dont ride my bike to its full potential.

[NDMBlackBlade]

if it was say a 400RR as in like the 6 and 1000 i would buy it

[Doomwitha929]

Honda could easily take the CRF 450R dirtbike put shorter forks on it, street wheels and tires and body work. Cost would be kept low because of use of an existing platform and parts. Should be able to produce them for around 7K max I would think. Cutting edge super light 450 sportbike for 7K? I would buy one.

[Gothy]

well good news!

Honda's brand new CB400 Super Four,
Has had VVT for several years now, and now comes with Fuel injection!
So lets take a look, 400cc naked bike, is fast (you'd be supprised actually), and now has fuel injection.
Just fit a power commander and different exhaust and it will keep up with a cbr6. Get one imported from japan. unless they decide to be nice and sell it over here!
Honda may have plans to build a cbr400 or vfr400 with fuel injection. Everyone is expecting a big supprise this year possibly by unveiling a new bike because its honda's 60th birthday this year!

OR or or,
failing that shoehorn a cbr600rr motor into the frame of a CBR400RR.
Im in the process of putting a 918 blade motor in my cb400.
Yes thats right, a real steet sleeper.
"oh a naked bike, woosh, wow thats not a 400!"

[babisgr]

cb400 super four are very old bikes,they were meant for Japan only,and were grey imported on europe from 92+ .Here in Greece is a very common bike.It has diferent motor from the cbr400 (honda CB1-400 had the same motor as the cbr400).Super four is a nice,easy to ride bike,with boolet proof engine...but in no whay it can keep up with a 600,it makes about 40hp.

[Gothy]

52bhp standard, (mines pushing 60bhp), I have access to a dyno too.

Also the cb-1 is not the supior version, since it has 1 disc up front, and IS slower, lower revving,
The SuperFour has twin discs and has a higher revving engine, and is faster.
They both use the NC23 motor from the CBR400RR.

Also they do still make them, infact they havnt stopped making them since 92.
But a the new ones are fuel injected, and they have had variable valve timing, since 98 i believe.
And my point was that they would bring fuel injection to other 400 bikes, if they were to build a new cbr400 or vfr400.
Which looks increasingly like they might.

Also i've been on a rideout with 2 busa's, a gsxr1000, and a ninja600, yes we wernt gunning it everywhere like we normally do when I have my blade out.
But they are quite capable of riding fast, and taking corners well too, i mean knee down.

[Doomwitha929]

I wouldnt mind buying a CBR400 if I could get one in the states that wasnt a pure race bike or beat to heck. Any of you out of towners feel like selling me a 400 and shipping it to the US?

[Gothy]

trade my cb400super four for your blade!

[Doomwitha929]

yeah I think not If I had not just put 3K worth of work into it I would consider it.

[Gothy]

ow well it was worth a try,
You could always come over here on holiday, buy a 400 then get the shipping sorted out.
If you can handle the cold weather, and constant rain we get (not today, yay).

[babisgr]

cb-1 and sf dont use tha same motor.
cb-1 has the cbr400 motor which has a gear driven cam,sf has a chain.
And yes cb-1 has one front brake disc,but it also has a normal rear suspension,sf has 2 rear that bolts right to the swing arm.

[Gothy]

really!?
I don't suppose you have any pics showing the two motors? Its interesting why they didn't put twin discs on the cb-1 then, if the rest was to a higher spec.
I knew about the suspension too, i forgot to meantion it in my comparison.
The engines look the same (except its missing a few cooling fins), and has the cb-1 really got gear driven cams?
Thats quite interesting because I always thought they were all the same engine since all 3 bikes motors are called the nc23. (i hope)

[ptlcb1]

There is no need for twin disk on the CB-1. That single disk is very strong. I race my CB-1, and have more bhp than stock, and that single disk along with steel braided lines, works great! There is no need to switch to dual disks. I prefer to not have the added weight of duals up front. Yes the CB-1 has gear driven cams.

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by Gothy

really!?
I don't suppose you have any pics showing the two motors? Its interesting why they didn't put twin discs on the cb-1 then, if the rest was to a higher spec.
I knew about the suspension too, i forgot to meantion it in my comparison.
The engines look the same (except its missing a few cooling fins), and has the cb-1 really got gear driven cams?
Thats quite interesting because I always thought they were all the same engine since all 3 bikes motors are called the nc23. (i hope)

CBR 400rr is gear driven. The Super 4 is definitely chain driven. The valves aren't variable on the CBR either.

[Gothy]

a bit more research leads me to an interesting point of discovery.
The earliest models of the cbr400 had the engine labled the nc23, however later models changed to the nc29.
SO did they put the orginal nc23 in the superfour. - with chain driven cams.
Then the cb-1 got the nc29 motor with the newer cbr400. - with the gear driven cams.

So the question is, did the early nc23 motor from the orginal cbr400 have chain driven cams too? ( i think the early ones are pre 1990 )

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by Gothy

a bit more research leads me to an interesting point of discovery.
The earliest models of the cbr400 had the engine labled the nc23, however later models changed to the nc29.
SO did they put the orginal nc23 in the superfour. - with chain driven cams.
Then the cb-1 got the nc29 motor with the newer cbr400. - with the gear driven cams.

So the question is, did the early nc23 motor from the orginal cbr400 have chain driven cams too? ( i think the early ones are pre 1990 )

My motor is an NC23 and it's definitely gear driven. I've seen it with my own eyes.

[LoopyLee]

Mines a NC29.. and I cant be ar*ed to go and look!!!

She runs.. in fact she ran very well on the way home tonight its lovely out there and perfect for running about...

[babisgr]

gear driven cam should be easy to identify.First you would hear a "whining" sound from the motor (not exhaust),it wouldnt have a CCT (cam chain tensioner) on the back side of the engine block.

[ptlcb1]

The US CB-1 was only sold here in '89 and '90. The engine came from the Jap. '89 CB400RR. which had gear driven cams.

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by babisgr

gear driven cam should be easy to identify.First you would hear a "whining" sound from the motor (not exhaust),it wouldnt have a CCT (cam chain tensioner) on the back side of the engine block.

[Hornhonker]

Originally Posted by ptlcb1

The US CB-1 was only sold here in '89 and '90. The engine came from the Jap. '89 CB400RR. which had gear driven cams.

The main difference from the Japan domestic model was the exhaust pipes were painted coming to North America but stainless in Japan. We are seeing quite afew of these and others coming to Vancouver now with the nice stainless pipes.

It's interesting how the HP is much lower now in the 250cc bikes like the Kawasaki 250 compared to 1990 model MC19 and MC22 CBR's. They were rated at 45 hp vers the new bike at a claimed 32 (27 in this months Cycle World). I just sold my CBR250R to (to help finance my NC30) and it had a 18000 rpm redline ! Think I'll look for another when I can afford it.

[babisgr]

45hp from a 250cc engine is a bit false.....if you think about it,it would make 180hp from 1000cc !
Back then they were very optimistic with these bikes,the truth is the 400 would make about 45-50hp (with the exception of a zxr 400 edition that made nearly 60hp) and the 250 were about 30-35 revving to the stars!

[marty_400]

I'd love to see a new CBR400 come out!
Give it a good few years, and I'd be looking to get a minter second hand.


Martin

BTW:
Rode the cbr600 yesterday.
Christ she is heavy off the side stand!
Rides ok/good, but a bit detached compared to the CBR4.
bit feel like I'm coasting in a big fat comfy armchair, bit bland really.

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by babisgr

45hp from a 250cc engine is a bit false.....if you think about it,it would make 180hp from 1000cc !
Back then they were very optimistic with these bikes,the truth is the 400 would make about 45-50hp (with the exception of a zxr 400 edition that made nearly 60hp) and the 250 were about 30-35 revving to the stars!

And even those figure are highly optimistic. I reckon the 400 CBR is more like 30-33 hp in standard trim.

[marty_400]

Originally Posted by Gothy

well good news!

Honda's brand new CB400 Super Four,
Has had VVT for several years now, and now comes with Fuel injection!
So lets take a look, 400cc naked bike, is fast (you'd be supprised actually), and now has fuel injection.
Just fit a power commander and different exhaust and it will keep up with a cbr6. Get one imported from japan. unless they decide to be nice and sell it over here!
Honda may have plans to build a cbr400 or vfr400 with fuel injection. Everyone is expecting a big supprise this year possibly by unveiling a new bike because its honda's 60th birthday this year!

VVT
- Someone remind me of the use of "variable Valvle Timing"?
- How well has it gone down with the VFR800?
- VVT with a Cam Chain??? Why not gear driven!


FI
- over complicating things?



Hope you can advise!
Martin

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by marty_400

VVT
- Someone remind me of the use of "variable Valvle Timing"?

It does exactly what it says on the tin. It varies the timing to suit the driving conditions at the time, making the bike far more flexible in traffic, for example.

Originally Posted by marty_400

- How well has it gone down with the VFR800?

No idea. Sorry.

Originally Posted by marty_400

- VVT with a Cam Chain??? Why not gear driven!

Space is needed for the cams to move. It's far easier (let alone possible) to adjust for that movement with a chain than it is with two gears meeting. When you need the cam height higher or further away from the valves (less aggressive cam for traffic conditions), slack is taken out naturally. However, when you need the cam/s to be lower and therefore closer to the valves (or more aggressive for hard acceleration), then the slack can be taken out with tensioner type control.

Originally Posted by marty_400

FI
- over complicating things?

In some senses. However, FI helps to clarify a problem quicker. From what I hear, it points you in the right direction for fault finding. I wish I had it on my bike at the moment