[Skeleton]

Hello from England Fireblades , please allow me to introduce myself.

I'm Josh, I'm seventeen years old and I currently ride a WR125X (Supermoto). I've been riding for nearly a year now, having started on a Derbi Senda 125 (Enduro). Despite my age and the fact I ride hard, I'd like to think of myself as a non-stereotypical 17-year-old rider. I'm not in the game for pure speed or power or extending my ego, just for the thrills, spills and atmosphere .

Before I ask for your advice, I apologise for jumping straight into your forums with questions. Having being a member of Supermoto Junkies (a similar community-style bulletin board) for some time now, I know it can sometimes be insulting when you get members who show little involvement in any but their own affairs - especially younger lads like myself. I hope I'm not causing you too much trouble, but after browsing the internet for answers for the best part of 2 weeks - alongside contacting numerous riders - I thought I'd contact the experts directly.

My situation is a simple and predictable one. I passed my bike test over here in England around 6 months ago. This entitles me to ride any capacity bike, as long as the power output doesn't exceed 33bhp. Due to being surrounded by Sportsbikes locally and through the magazine I subscribe to I've come to the conclusion that a sportsbike willl be the natural progression. I'm looking for something which will be able to keep me smiling throughout the two year restriction period, and hopefully even after. I've really come to love the shape of the CBR400RR, the VFR and RFV. Needless to say, the 400 sportsbike options are extremely limited - the only other 400 sportsbikes I've discovered are the ZX-4R and the GSXR400.

I'll be using the bike very frequently, and my main concern is reliability. I'm a huge fan of Honda engineering, but I'm still a little apprehensive when it comes to a 10-20 year old machine.

Without dragging this on any further, I'm calling on the general experience(s) you all have had with your 400's, be they CBR's, VFR's or RVF's. I'd desperately love to own one of these but have my concerns. Should I forsake the pipe dream and steer myself towards a Kawasaki 250R instead?

Thankyou very much Blades, I hope you have some answers out there for me .

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by Skeleton

Hello from England Fireblades , please allow me to introduce myself.

I'm Josh, I'm seventeen years old and I currently ride a WR125X (Supermoto). I've been riding for nearly a year now, having started on a Derbi Senda 125 (Enduro). Despite my age and the fact I ride hard, I'd like to think of myself as a non-stereotypical 17-year-old rider. I'm not in the game for pure speed or power or extending my ego, just for the thrills, spills and atmosphere .

Before I ask for your advice, I apologise for jumping straight into your forums with questions. Having being a member of Supermoto Junkies (a similar community-style bulletin board) for some time now, I know it can sometimes be insulting when you get members who show little involvement in any but their own affairs - especially younger lads like myself. I hope I'm not causing you too much trouble, but after browsing the internet for answers for the best part of 2 weeks - alongside contacting numerous riders - I thought I'd contact the experts directly.

My situation is a simple and predictable one. I passed my bike test over here in England around 6 months ago. This entitles me to ride any capacity bike, as long as the power output doesn't exceed 33bhp. Due to being surrounded by Sportsbikes locally and through the magazine I subscribe to I've come to the conclusion that a sportsbike willl be the natural progression. I'm looking for something which will be able to keep me smiling throughout the two year restriction period, and hopefully even after. I've really come to love the shape of the CBR400RR, the VFR and RFV. Needless to say, the 400 sportsbike options are extremely limited - the only other 400 sportsbikes I've discovered are the ZX-4R and the GSXR400.

I'll be using the bike very frequently, and my main concern is reliability. I'm a huge fan of Honda engineering, but I'm still a little apprehensive when it comes to a 10-20 year old machine.

Without dragging this on any further, I'm calling on the general experience(s) you all have had with your 400's, be they CBR's, VFR's or RVF's. I'd desperately love to own one of these but have my concerns. Should I forsake the pipe dream and steer myself towards a Kawasaki 250R instead?

Thankyou very much Blades, I hope you have some answers out there for me .

First off, to the forum, Skeleton I very much doubt anyone's going to have any issues with you firing a question off the bat, but they might if you then leave having got your answer and not helped anyone else.

That said, lets get the ball rolling and try to help you with your decision. The CBR 400rr is generally a very good bike and with very little modification (i.e. restrictor plates) will comply with your legal requirements. I've never ridden one with those plates in so I'm not going to try and tell you that it will still feel rapid after a year, but it will help you move into your next phase of riding (i.e. faster) at little or no cost when you are entitled to.

I would say that when new these bikes were probably exceptionally reliable, as can be evidenced by the fact that so many are still being used today some 20-odd years later. However, as you probably know, people do like to play around with their bikes and, after all these years, they may have been subjected to a lot of abuse. That abuse can come in a number of forms, ranging from idiots bodging up the wiring to others thrashing the hell out of them or a combination of the two.

Problem areas to look out for
As, it would seem, with all Hondas the regulator/rectifier isn't particularly good. Signs of one about to go tend to be fuses blowing regularly a long with light bulbs. Do try and catch this early as they can sometimes take out the main fuse wiring and/or the ECU with them.

The gearboxes tend to be hard-wearing and a clunking box can usually be greatly improved with nothing more complex than an oil change. However, they will nearly always clunk going into first gear. That's just what they do. 6th gear is also usually quite whiny.

Look out for the swing arm bearing showing play. One side is a roller bearing type, but the other side rarely gets changed because it's a static (or one piece) bearing. If, when you take one of these bikes out for a test ride, the back end is feeling a little too loose it's probably because that static bearing is shot.

Check that the temperature gauge does take a while to get up to temperature. If all is working the way it should in the cooling department, these bikes should take a while to warm up, even here in Thailand where it's far hotter than the UK. Pay close attention to the quality of the coolant colour and that the radiator is full. The 400 CBR has gear driven cams, so there's not a lot of margin for shimming the head if you blow the gasket and warp the head.

Stator coils can be a bit of an issue. Japanese spec came with 35/55 watt bulbs. Unfortunately, a lot of us can't get our hands on these anymore and the 55/65 watt bulbs draw too much current for the stator to handle. It's not serious but it can be a pain in the backside. Try and find the upgraded UK spec stator, which can handle the greater drain.

Conclusions
Get a good one and you will fall in love with it very quickly; get a dog and you'll hate it. Spend a lot of time hunting for the best one you can find, even if you have to pay a lot more for it. It will save you a fortune later on.

Hope that helps get you started. Good luck in your search and I'm sure someone with experience of the VFR's will be along to help you with them.

[Skeleton]

Thanks very much for the detailed reply Surffrog . I've heard a lot of different stories about how well they're treated - I know that enthusiasts like you people look after them and make sure they're in a good condition, despite their age, but on the other hand due to their size they're a prime target for kids around my age who want a fast bike and moderate insurance. Not a great combination - supposedly it'd be easy to be lured into buying a bike that's been totally thrashed, which is understandable.

Any rough gears I can handle, I don't mind as long as the bike will be able to get from a to b without having to make any crash course modifications, . After riding off-road the rougher gears are second nature, haha.

As for the electrical issues, I'd never even heard of them before you just mentioned them. Unfortunately, it's not something you can properly identify when you're going to have a look around the bike but I'd definitely keep it in mind while becoming familiar with it.

Taking a little time to cool up doesn't surprise me, I know a lad who discovered it the hard way - rode like a lunatic from the word go and ended up blowing his end bearing. Poor CBR .

Is there a particular price range you'd recommend? Some people I've spoken say I shouldn't be looking at more than £1000 for a perfect bike - which makes sense due to the year. But dealers are aware of the decline in 400 sports and have begun to insist that the bikes are apreciating in value, anything from £2000-£4000.

[minkie1]

Hi glad to see another rider looking at a 400, there's a group of us that ride 400's CBR 400 & VFR400 and we all have a difference of opinion on which is the best. I think for a reasonable bike that's not been thrashed you may pay a bit more than £1000. You sound like you know what to look for but these are some of the general things we look at first to give us an overall idea when we are buying bikes.

Tyres, how much treads left, any cracks between the tread.
Chain & Sprocket check to see if there's no stiff links
Brakes
Overall up keep is it clean & tidy.
Last oil & filter service ?
Check all fairing parts ( especially the inners in the side of the nose cone) it will do your head in if they rattle.


Good luck and let us know what you have decided on.

[Skeleton]

Thanks very much for the general checks . I recently got a supplement with my bike magazine which gives a very detailed explaination of what to look out for on used bikes and covers all of the areas possible. It's really helpful, and should I end up going to view one of Honda's 400's, I think it'll be my bible, haha.

I know that any bike can have it's issues with age - it's inevitable - but getting a broader perspective on the machine should help me make the decision. Like I said, I already find it absolutely gorgeous, and if it wasn't for money/age concerns there'd be one sitting in the garage!

[babyblader400]

Hi,

just to give you a bit of a steer, I bought a NC23 on an 89 F plate about a month ago with 38,000km on the clock and paid £800 for it. The bike is tidy, with just a few minor cracks / marks on the fairing.

The engines are pretty indestructible but if it's too noisy (or too quiet) the shims could need doing which is pretty expensive as they're difficult to get to and it takes time - 3hrs for an experienced mechanic.
I've had a full service done on mine, oil, air, plugs, and a good quality new chain which was all it needed for a couple of hundred quid. I've just ordered some new tyres (Bridgestone BT-92s) which are setting me back £188 inc. the vat. So all in the bike owes me about £1200.
Having ridden a much newer CBR600 previously (it had only 2000m on it when I bought it) I'm really impressed with the 400. It's slower lower down but just as much fun in the power band and is easier to handle in the twisties. Couldn't recommend it highly enough!!

[Skeleton]

Thanks for getting in touch Babyblader. This is really reassuring news and it's good to hear about the good condition and reasonably limited expense. I wouldn't mind forking out £1,200 for an example in a similar condition to yours, post-parts.

Just two questions for you: Did the bike feel as though it had 38k on the clock? Is there anywhere you would recommend looking for these models? Currently have my eye on Pistonheads and Bike Trader. Pistonheads seems to have better value bikes up for sale.

[Destructo]

skeleton, good intro mate! Good to see a new rider who seems to have his head screwed on, unlike most of the teenagers riding around!

Good luck with your hunt, I hope you find a good bike! If you keep it nice, you'll probably be able to sell it again once your restriction is over and get your money back!

[Skeleton]

Thanks very much .

Yeah, that's the way that I see it too - too many kids my age who want to buy the biggest bike they can afford and use it to show off and earn bragging rights. It inevitably starts with "what's the top speed?". I went to a local meet recently and several members fit this bill perfectly, I walked away wondering why everyone had their own hero story and why hitting 160 was the highlight of a day.

Admittedly it's not everyone, but I wish there were more people who were in it for the experience as opposed to the rush. Stereotypes stick unfortunately.

On the other side though, biking's all about the memories, the adrenaline, the attitutde and atmosphere. I wouldn't want to portray myself as a moody rider with something against the world, haha. I just love riding too much to be able to tolerate extremes of character wherein over-confidence and a distinct lack of modesty are rife .

I'd love to be able to do that. After owning a new bike I've learnt the hard way about how to care for your machine and the do's/don'ts. The next bike along will be treated like two-wheeled royalty .

[Sideshow bob]

..... is there any perticular reason you looking for a 400....

you can restrict any* bike to 33bhp

*most have restrictor kits available, not all but a good selection
the guy who had my (er... old) duke had a 33bhp kit fitted to that

[Sideshow bob]

ooops!

[Skeleton]

Hey Sideshow, thanks for the welcome .

I know that you can get any bike (within availability) restricted (including that duke which is phenomenal, haha) but there are a few different reasons I'm interested in 400s.

1] In my eyes the jump from a 125 to a 600 is illogical. It seems like a huge power increase and I don't think I'd really be ready for it.

2] I'd rather progress through the different capacities. It'll give me more experience and more to look back on/look forward to in the future.

3] The market is limited at the moment with sportsbikes. The only other options would be a Kawasaki 250R (which would be no use to me after the restriction period - I also wouldnt have much faith in the riding position and 130 rear tyre) and 600's (which I personally feel is too large a leap from 33bhp up to 70-100+.)

4] I really, really love the look of Honda's 400s .

I think 400's just seem sensible. My 125 feels fast already - I thought my 0-60 was about 6 seconds, when in fact I recently found out that it's more like 12.5

[LoopyLee]

Originally Posted by Skeleton

Hello from England Fireblades , please allow me to introduce myself.

I'm Josh, I'm seventeen years old and I currently ride a WR125X (Supermoto). I've been riding for nearly a year now, having started on a Derbi Senda 125 (Enduro). Despite my age and the fact I ride hard, I'd like to think of myself as a non-stereotypical 17-year-old rider. I'm not in the game for pure speed or power or extending my ego, just for the thrills, spills and atmosphere .

Before I ask for your advice, I apologise for jumping straight into your forums with questions. Having being a member of Supermoto Junkies (a similar community-style bulletin board) for some time now, I know it can sometimes be insulting when you get members who show little involvement in any but their own affairs - especially younger lads like myself. I hope I'm not causing you too much trouble, but after browsing the internet for answers for the best part of 2 weeks - alongside contacting numerous riders - I thought I'd contact the experts directly.

My situation is a simple and predictable one. I passed my bike test over here in England around 6 months ago. This entitles me to ride any capacity bike, as long as the power output doesn't exceed 33bhp. Due to being surrounded by Sportsbikes locally and through the magazine I subscribe to I've come to the conclusion that a sportsbike willl be the natural progression. I'm looking for something which will be able to keep me smiling throughout the two year restriction period, and hopefully even after. I've really come to love the shape of the CBR400RR, the VFR and RFV. Needless to say, the 400 sportsbike options are extremely limited - the only other 400 sportsbikes I've discovered are the ZX-4R and the GSXR400.

I'll be using the bike very frequently, and my main concern is reliability. I'm a huge fan of Honda engineering, but I'm still a little apprehensive when it comes to a 10-20 year old machine.

Without dragging this on any further, I'm calling on the general experience(s) you all have had with your 400's, be they CBR's, VFR's or RVF's. I'd desperately love to own one of these but have my concerns. Should I forsake the pipe dream and steer myself towards a Kawasaki 250R instead?

Thankyou very much Blades, I hope you have some answers out there for me .

Skeleton

I ride a 92 CBR400 and I absolutely love her.. I bought her in March of last year and while her fairings aren't in the best of nick (aftermarket ones) she runs just great which is the important bit. I had an issue with the fuel pump being tempremental when I first got her but a replacement soon sorted that.. Other than that it's just been normal wear and tear running costs (tyres, fork oil seals, servicing costs, etc) For an 18 year old bike she runs beautifully and will get me about in all weathers

BTW....... Surf said about the clunk into 1st gear.. Personally I love that clunk

When I was looking for a bike after passing my test I was looking at the GSXR, VFR, RVF and CBR 400's.. I asked the local garages what they thought and they all recommended the CBR as the engines last better and they are also easier to work on, definately something worth considering if you plan on doing your own maintenance

Originally Posted by Skeleton

Is there a particular price range you'd recommend? Some people I've spoken say I shouldn't be looking at more than £1000 for a perfect bike - which makes sense due to the year. But dealers are aware of the decline in 400 sports and have begun to insist that the bikes are apreciating in value, anything from £2000-£4000.

I paid £1400 for my bike in March last year and she had done 43,000km at that time, now she's done over 51,000km (approx 31,000 miles) and she is doing great..

[Sideshow bob]

Fair play..... sounds very sensible*..

mind you.... I would never of been able to ride for 2 years with a 33bhp restriction.. but I did the different bikes/sizes things witch i really enjoyed
even had a 400 for a while... & loved it, unfortunatly the phisical size of it played havoc with my knees

*you sure you on the right forum

[Skeleton]

Hello there Lee . Thanks for the welcome!

Great to hear about the condition of your bike - I already knew you were desperately with her from the posts I've seen already . It's amazing to think that a bike with so many miles still runs beautifully - it's really reassuring to hear from several diffferent people that their machines are standing the test of time. And as for the clunk... I have the same reaction to the sound of my pistons priming (or so I've been told that's what the sound is) when I turn the ignition on. I'm glad I'm not the only with with unusual taste . Maintenance... ergh. I'm not a natural mechanic, but I'd lke to learn at some point... maybe a CBR/RVF/VFR would be a good place to start?



With the restriction, Bob, I'd probably keep the bike restricted for about a year and then derestrict it. I'm not very good at restraint - maybe not so sensible after all .

[Destructo]

Not that I want to turn you away from the 400, but have you thought about a Suzuki SV650? They are supposed to be very good first 'big' bikes, user friendly but good fun too.

Or if you really want a Honda (I would, but then I'm biased) then how about a 600 Hornet, or a CBF600? Both are good bikes, the CBF is pretty much a softer version of the Hornet. Both use a 'bulletproof' detuned old-model CBR600 engine, enough to keep you interested after your restricted period is over but without the intensity of a sports bike.

All of these bikes will be much newer than the 400's you are considering.

Just a few suggestions to think about... personally, I'd go for the Hornet

[Skeleton]

They're definitely good suggestions and I've seen all of the above bikes in my search but I'm really aiming at a Supermoto or Sportsbike. It's nothing against the SV or CB's - just a personal preference thing.

They're good bikes in terms of reliability and the amount of power they produce (with regards to the amount I'm looking for), but they're just not my style. I like the modern bike styles because they seem synonymous to youth. When I look at an SV or CB I can't help but think of the bikes my Mum used to ride, such as the RD and CBX. It's probably a generation thing!

Good thought though :thumbup:

[Destructo]

Originally Posted by Skeleton

When I look at an SV or CB I can't help but think of the bikes my Mum used to ride

You must have a pretty cool mum!

Fair enough, if you want a sportsbike then nothing else will do.... there will be plenty of time for sit-up-and-beg bikes later on, when your knees and back have packed in! (er, I hope they don't!)l

[Skeleton]

She's pretty cool! After getting a bike she got jealous and reminisced over her youth. I said she should get one and after a year she's taken note. After 25 years of no riding she's bought a YBR125, .

[babyblader400]

I'm not really familiar with pistonheads, but have used auto / bike trader before now with good results. Keep an eye out locally though too - ideally you don't want to be travelling loads of miles only to find the bikes rubbish!

To be honest, the bike doesn't feel as if it's done 38k - I was really surprised how similar it felt to my much newer 600, so I guess if you're tryin b4 u buy it should feel good - honda's are well built and shouldn't suffer from excessive vibration etc - if you have any concerns - don't buy! Good luck with the search.

[Skeleton]

Yeah, usually I check the bike trader listings because it's more well known and there seem to be more bikes on there. But compared to the pistonhad selection, the prices were far higher.

Trying before I buy? Do people usually let you take their bike out or something?

Thanks though, hopefully I'll be able to find a pretty example, I'll be aiming to get one sometime early next year.

[LoopyLee]

Originally Posted by Skeleton

Trying before I buy? Do people usually let you take their bike out or something?

Some sellers will let you run up the road and back on it, and others won't..

When I bought mine I couldn't test ride it due to my licence restriction, plus I wasn't insured for riding other bikes at the time, so Sideshow Bob tried her out for me

[Skeleton]

Now there's something. Never heard of that before - it'd be good of the seller to do it. Although I'm not sure my insurance would allow that either to be honest.

Sideshow Bob may need to do some more testing .

[Sideshow bob]

Originally Posted by Skeleton

Now there's something. Never heard of that before - it'd be good of the seller to do it. Although I'm not sure my insurance would allow that either to be honest.

Sideshow Bob may need to do some more testing .

SSB is always up for thrashi.... errrrr.... Testing other peoples bikes

[LoopyLee]

Originally Posted by Sideshow bob

SSB is always up for thrashi.... errrrr.... Testing other peoples bikes

You won't need to test ride bikes for me anymore once my licence restriction is up.. Plus I have riding other bikes on my insurance now

[Sideshow bob]

Originally Posted by LoopyLee

You won't need to test ride bikes for me anymore once my licence restriction is up.. Plus I have riding other bikes on my insurance now

you might want a second opinion

[LoopyLee]

Originally Posted by Sideshow bob

you might want a second opinion

And I might not