190/50 vs 180/55

BigDawg · 05-12-2003, 1:56 PM

Question for those that have run them, what are the pro's/con's of going to the 180/55 vs the 190/50? Traction, cornering, etc? I noticed my buddies R1 kinda 'fell' into the corner where my 9 takes a bit more muscle to get leaned over. My 9 changes direction faster but requires more attension once leaned over where the R1 kinda steers into the corner itself. Felt a little more planted when pushing towards the edge. Wondering what kind of effect the 180/55 will have on the overall handling of the bike??? I know it'll help with initial turn in but how much straight line stability does it give up (for those that have ridden one vs the other)??? Just looking for overall impressions here. Thankx.

Trackho · 05-12-2003, 1:58 PM

The 180X55 gives better everything, except ultimate traction, stability should be unaffected---I run 180s everywhere--works great

CanyonCarver · 05-12-2003, 2:22 PM

I didn't find any loss in straight-line stability by going to the 180s, and did find the expected improvement in turn-in. Could be just my imagination, but seems that it holds a line in the corners better and also is less likely to stand up under braking when leaned over.

BigDawg · 05-12-2003, 2:38 PM

Sounds like what I might be looking for. Just not sure what type of overall traction losses you'll see running 180 vs 190. I may also be seeing a bit of 'looseness' from my highly worn 010 in the rear. Not much profile left and way past being happy on there. This is still a street ride so I need a nice balance for both track and street.

Speaking of profile, how much does the profile affect the way the bike feels in a corner? I notice the 207/08 seems to be a bit more triangle vs the 010's which are more rounded. How do the sportec's compare? Thankx for the help.

Trackho · 05-12-2003, 3:47 PM

Quote:

BigDawg : Sounds like what I might be looking for. Just not sure what type of overall traction losses you'll see running 180 vs 190. I may also be seeing a bit of 'looseness' from my highly worn 010 in the rear. Not much profile left and way past being happy on there. This is still a street ride so I need a nice balance for both track and street.

Speaking of profile, how much does the profile affect the way the bike feels in a corner? I notice the 207/08 seems to be a bit more triangle vs the 010's which are more rounded. How do the sportec's compare? Thankx for the help.

You wil never notice the diffrence in traction unless you are pushing it really, really hard, especially if you use a pretty sticky street/track tire like a Sportec(M1)

RacerCutie · 05-12-2003, 4:17 PM

Quote:

Trackho : Quote (BigDawg @ May 12 2003, 1:38pm)Sounds like what I might be looking for. Just not sure what type of overall traction losses you'll see running 180 vs 190. I may also be seeing a bit of 'looseness' from my highly worn 010 in the rear. Not much profile left and way past being happy on there. This is still a street ride so I need a nice balance for both track and street.

Speaking of profile, how much does the profile affect the way the bike feels in a corner? I notice the 207/08 seems to be a bit more triangle vs the 010's which are more rounded. How do the sportec's compare? Thankx for the help.

You wil never notice the diffrence in traction unless you are pushing it really, really hard, especially if you use a pretty sticky street/track tire like a Sportec(M1)
I like the 180 but I am noticing my rear losing traction sometimes when I'm cornering (with the Mez 1). I don't think I'm pushing it hard though, but I am sliding a bit.
I don't remember doing this with the 190.
*

BigDawg · 05-12-2003, 5:00 PM

Yes the plan is M1's. Also saw they had listed a 190/55. Wouldn't this kinda give you the same cornering characteristics with better traction?? Not sure how it fits in the swingarm but as I said above, I have a 520 kit on the way with 15/44 gearing so I can run a slightly longer chain to get it in there. Not sure what the extra wheelbase length will do but seems like it might be a good setup?

I like the idea of running the taller profile of the 180 but know I could use all the traction I can get. Just trying to get a feel for what people are finding. Thankx

Trackho · 05-12-2003, 5:11 PM

Quote:

BigDawg : Yes the plan is M1's. Also saw they had listed a 190/55. Wouldn't this kinda give you the same cornering characteristics with better traction?? Not sure how it fits in the swingarm but as I said above, I have a 520 kit on the way with 15/44 gearing so I can run a slightly longer chain to get it in there. Not sure what the extra wheelbase length will do but seems like it might be a good setup?

I like the idea of running the taller profile of the 180 but know I could use all the traction I can get. Just trying to get a feel for what people are finding. Thankx

You are waaaay overthinking this(as did I at first)---not sure what RCs deal is, but she aint pushing it very hard---so I think something else it up. Try the 180 and see what you think, a 190X55 is gonna be tough to fit w/your sprockets. I run a 180 on the 500lb Blackbird, and I push it pretty darn hard---so far no issues-I also run 180s on the 929, and turn some pretty decent lap-times--EVERYONE at the track runs 180s---remember you only need about 34psi in the rear on the street, 30(ish) on the track. Using correct tire pressure will make a big diff

BigDawg · 05-12-2003, 10:53 PM

Thankx Trackho, I really appreciate the help. Ya, I think I am over thinking this Just really unsure which way I want to go. Sounds like from what your saying (and others

the 180 is the better choice. Better turn-in with no loss of straight line stability. Does it for me.

Again, thankx for the help.

CanyonCarver · 05-13-2003, 12:38 AM

Quote:

BigDawg : Speaking of profile, how much does the profile affect the way the bike feels in a corner? I notice the 207/08 seems to be a bit more triangle vs the 010's which are more rounded. How do the sportec's compare? Thankx for the help.

The profile will affect the feel in a corner. *However, I believe that the profiles from mfg. to mfg. vary a bit, so it may have more to do with Dunlop v. Michelin v. Metzler.

One thing I found when I went from the stock 012s to the 208GPs is that the overall diameter difference in the tires had the practical effect of raising the rear of the bike by almost 10mm. *This made the steering even more twitchy than stock and made the head shake a bit more than usual. *I ended up dropping the forks in the triple-clamps by 10mm to compensate; back to normal twitchy mode now. *

BTW, I figured out the tire diameter thing from a post that Dan Kyle made a while back, listing actual diameters of various popular tires and mentioning the difference they will make on handling issues. *Way cool for him to post this valuable and hard to find information!

edit for spelling and gross stupidity pointed out by slowpoke.

Oz · 05-13-2003, 12:57 AM

Quote:

CanyonCarver : I didn't find any loss in straight-line stability by going to the 180s, and did find the expected improvement in turn-in. *Could be just my imagination, but seems that it holds a line in the corners better and also is less likely to stand up under braking when leaned over.

Same here

Metzeler Rennsport with street compound, and fairly round profile.

Joel · 05-13-2003, 1:16 AM

180s are cheaper

slowpoke · 05-29-2003, 3:00 PM

I just switched to a 180(Metz M-1's) before going to Jennings and like it a lot. No problems with traction at all. I believe a 180 has a bigger footprint when leaned over due to the profile of the tire. Not to mention they're cheaper and lighter(less unsprung weight-a very good thing) Canyoncarver, if you raised the forks 10mm to compensate for a taller rear(180 vs 190), you're making it worse!

lfg929 · 05-29-2003, 3:35 PM

The 190x55 will work with 15/44 gearing (that is what I have on the 929 at the moment). Those tires are toast and the next set will be 180x55. I can't comment on the differences between 190 and 180 because the only 180s I have used are the Pilot Race 2's, and they have a *very* triangular profile. I attribute the changes in steering more to the profile of the Race 2's than the 180 tire size.

stu929 · 05-29-2003, 8:15 PM

I just recently switched from 190 to 180 Sportecs and the turn in is definitely quicker and holds the line pretty well in corners (although it could just be my mind playing tricks on me). Haven't fully broken them in yet, but once I do, I'll let you guys know. But from how they feel now and the price, I'm stickin' with 180's.

(Does look a little funny though switching from a 190 to a 180 in the back... much more narrow).

abtech · 05-29-2003, 9:09 PM

Quote:

slowpoke : I just switched to a 180(Metz M-1's) before going to Jennings and like it a lot. No problems with traction at all. I believe a 180 has a bigger footprint when leaned over due to the profile of the tire. Not to mention they're cheaper and lighter(less unsprung weight-a very good thing) Canyoncarver, if you raised the forks 10mm to compensate for a taller rear(180 vs 190), you're making it worse!

I'm not certain whether he means he raised the triple clamps on the forks UP 10 mm or dropped the clamps down the tubes 10 mm. If the former, I guess the tops of the tubes are below the top of the clamps (there is only 4 to 5 mm to play with). If the latter, then you have created a suicide machine . . .

thegirl · 05-29-2003, 9:30 PM

I ran BT 010's in both sizes and didn't notice any difference but I'm an average rider with some track time and don't have the opportunity to push it very often.

I think that if you spend tons of time at a track and are super fast you'd probably notice some differences, but IMO you'd have to be pretty good to notice.

slowpoke · 05-29-2003, 9:46 PM

Abtech, I assumed(I know..never assume anything)he meant sliding the tubes up in the triples 10mm because mine only had ~2mm above the clamps to begin with. Raising the rear with a 180 and lowering the front sounds downright dangerous to me! Probably easy to grind the fairing with it set up like that.

OntheEdge · 05-29-2003, 10:33 PM

Quote:

abtech : Quote (slowpoke @ May 29 2003, 2:00pm)I just switched to a 180(Metz M-1's) before going to Jennings and like it a lot. No problems with traction at all. I believe a 180 has a bigger footprint when leaned over due to the profile of the tire. Not to mention they're cheaper and lighter(less unsprung weight-a very good thing) Canyoncarver, if you raised the forks 10mm to compensate for a taller rear(180 vs 190), you're making it worse!

I'm not certain whether he means he raised the triple clamps on the forks UP 10 mm or dropped the clamps down the tubes 10 mm. *If the former, I guess the tops of the tubes are below the top of the clamps (there is only 4 to 5 mm to play with). *If the latter, then you have created a suicide machine . . .
CanyonCarver raised the front by pushing the tubes down in the tripples. He also has Ohlins forks.

omen137 · 05-29-2003, 10:43 PM

Go the 180, the bike turns much quicker. The 190 looks better but. choices, choices.....

slowpoke · 05-30-2003, 10:47 AM

OntheEdge, that's good to hear. I was kinda worried about being right this time!

CanyonCarver · 05-31-2003, 11:38 AM

Quote:

abtech : I'm not certain whether he means he raised the triple clamps on the forks UP 10 mm or dropped the clamps down the tubes 10 mm. *If the former, I guess the tops of the tubes are below the top of the clamps (there is only 4 to 5 mm to play with). *If the latter, then you have created a suicide machine . . .

Actually, the former, Ab. *However, as they are Ohlins R/T forks I still have 10mm showing above the triple-clamps. *Just got it backwards in my former post (which I have fixed).

Ohlins recommends 20mm (2 lines) showing above the clamps as a standard setting, but with the tire changes it was very twitchy. *Dropping the forks in the clamps by 10mm compensated for the ride-height change caused by the different tire diameters and made it ride like it did before the switch to the 208GPs.

Sorry for the confusion....

nomad · 06-24-2003, 6:25 PM

Well, I just sacrificed appearance for price and performance. I have requested a 180/55 rear so I hope you guys are right!

Thanks for the advice.
J.

RacerCutie · 06-24-2003, 6:35 PM

Quote:

nomad : Well, I just sacrificed appearance for price and performance. *I have requested a 180/55 rear so I hope you guys are right!

Thanks for the advice.
J.

Appearance?
Bigger isn't necessarily better, you know, it's how you use it!

You'll love the 180. I don't think I'll ever go back to 190.
Bike's just that much more inclined to roll in the turns!

nomad · 06-24-2003, 7:10 PM

My whole goal was to find a tire that was thinner than I... Maybe the skinnier tire will make me look wider on the bike!

haha.

I still think the 190 looks better. More proportional.

A serious question... if the 180 is so much better, why did Honda fit the 190? I trust their engineers...

CanyonCarver · 06-24-2003, 9:11 PM

Quote:

nomad : A serious question... if the 180 is so much better, why did Honda fit the 190? *I trust their engineers...

My guess: *Big tires look cool and sell more bikes. *

Oz · 06-25-2003, 5:18 AM

Quote:

CanyonCarver : Quote (abtech @ May 29 2003, 5:09pm)I'm not certain whether he means he raised the triple clamps on the forks UP 10 mm or dropped the clamps down the tubes 10 mm. *If the former, I guess the tops of the tubes are below the top of the clamps (there is only 4 to 5 mm to play with). *If the latter, then you have created a suicide machine . . .

Actually, the former, Ab. *However, as they are Ohlins R/T forks I still have 10mm showing above the triple-clamps. *Just got it backwards in my former post (which I have fixed).

Ohlins recommends 20mm (2 lines) showing above the clamps as a standard setting, but with the tire changes it was very twitchy. *Dropping the forks in the clamps by 10mm compensated for the ride-height change caused by the different tire diameters and made it ride like it did before the switch to the 208GPs.

Sorry for the confusion....
Strange. *I'm showing three lines on my Ohlins forks - it felt like it took too much effort to turn with two lines showing, as if the new forks were longer. *I'm running a 180/55 rennsport on the rear and the rear is a few mm taller than it was stock before the Ohlins shock. *No twitchiness, but the steering damper could mask a certain degree of it.

I'm going to take some advice from someone I trust who said to go back to two lines and raise the rear a little bit.

CanyonCarver · 06-25-2003, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Oz : Strange. *I'm showing three lines on my Ohlins forks - it felt like it took too much effort to turn with two lines showing, as if the new forks were longer. *I'm running a 180/55 rennsport on the rear and the rear is a few mm taller than it was stock before the Ohlins shock. *No twitchiness, but the steering damper could mask a certain degree of it.

I'm going to take some advice from someone I trust who said to go back to two lines and raise the rear a little bit.

I'm certainly no expert here, but it sounds as if that is good advice as I believe the Rennsports are a more rounded profile than the 208GPs, which could possibly require a greater turn-in effort. *Also, better to raise the rear than lower the front as it helps with ground clearance.

Holeshot · 06-25-2003, 11:23 AM

Just to cloud the waters here.

The bike comes from the factory with a 190 but the previous owner fitted a 180. It was not a good rain tire so I put on a set of used hides from my 929 that had lots of tread. The rear is a 190.

I personally find the bike more predictable and stable with the 190 than the 180 on the street. So next new set of tires will be 190's also. I know the 180 is supposed to be better for I feel more comfortable thus ride quier on the 190. Go figure.

Of course.... YMMV.

rydman · 06-28-2003, 1:40 AM

Um.. On Ohlins fork, each line is 4.0mm not 10! so if you lower or raise it two lines you are raising or lowering fork 8.0mm.

I find handling is improved with 180/55. I am no expert tho. I think there is a bit of fatter looks better marketing going on with selling bike with 190 on it. I run OEM 190/50 on street rims and 180/55 on track rims. I have never seen a race bike with a 190 on it. I am not saying they don't, I just haven't seen one.