[02FBlade]

Originally Posted by abtech

Which Motul and what viscosity?

Not sure now...it was a while back....I'll have to look, I should have an old half empty quart around somewhere. It came w/ my free kit from Ed Bargy school.

The local shop doesn't even carry any motul oil, when I asked why he told me the other full syn. were much better from his expericence and his R1 shifted much rougher w/ the motul...compared to the castrol superbike. Not sure of which motul he was using either....

[saf]

Castrol better than Motul ? .... he had less feeling in his feet than me, and i have medical records !

[02FBlade]

Well, it was in an R1!!!! My shifting has been about the same for all full syns.

[HawkGT]

I've been changing my oil and filter every 2500 - 3000 miles or 4-5 months whichever comes first. Just wondering what you guys thought about changing the oil but not the filter until every other change. In short, a oil change every 3000 miles, and a filter change every 6000 miles.
Not that I'm trying to save money, but it would save time and clean up.

[Scratch]

Originally Posted by HawkGT

I've been changing my oil and filter every 2500 - 3000 miles or 4-5 months whichever comes first. Just wondering what you guys thought about changing the oil but not the filter until every other change. In short, a oil change every 3000 miles, and a filter change every 6000 miles.
Not that I'm trying to save money, but it would save time and clean up.

Me personally I would do the filter everytime. I know people that do what you describe, new filter every other oil change and it seems to work out 'ok'. I don't know what bike you currently own, but the majority of bikes allow you to change the filter and oil w/o removing any fairings. If you factor out the fairing removal then changing the oil filter just takes a couple of minutes more than just changin the oil itself. For me it's worth the extra piece of mind, I can give my bike a few extra minutes and an additional 10 bucks. The better you treat your bike the better it's going to treat you, .02.

On the other hand if changing the filter is a huge hassle then I can see why people would choose to replace it every other change. I would probably just pull the plastics and still do it anyway.

You can make concessions for the mess by a little bit of fore thought. A few pieces of foil here and there, a rag and a little practice can save you some headaches. I screwed up this season's first oil change by being in a hurry, forgetting to unscrew a drain cap on the oil pan, and subsequently splashing up my fairings just by simply removing the drain plug. But **** happens And a little mess won't kill anyone.

[saf]

If its not a money thing, do it. Wet clutch motors shed off clutch material and we know that the oil filters arent very big to begin with (sheer filtration size) and they run on bypass allready, no need to encourage that. It probably wouldnt hurt to leave it, then again it can only help it if its new.

[Spanky]

Originally Posted by HawkGT

I've been changing my oil and filter every 2500 - 3000 miles or 4-5 months whichever comes first. Just wondering what you guys thought about changing the oil but not the filter until every other change. In short, a oil change every 3000 miles, and a filter change every 6000 miles.
Not that I'm trying to save money, but it would save time and clean up.

I used to do this with my car - I'd still change the filter at the normal interval, but I'd do the oil at half distance (ie: 5000Kms = oil only, 10,000Kms = oil and filter). I thought about a similar practice for my 929 but decided that I might as well throw on a new filter at the same time as the oil given it's actually cheaper than the oil I'm putting in the bike...seemed a shame to run $50 worth of brand new clean oil through a dirty $20 filter.

I don't think there's anything mechanically at issue if you changed the oil only at half distance, then oil/filter at the full distance or normal interval - afterall if you were servicing the bike through a shop you wouldn't be getting the fresh oil at 3000Kms, only at the recommended 6000Kms distance.

If on the other hand you were thinking of only changing the filter at every 12,000Kms instead of the recommended 6,000Kms I think that you would be running the risk of premature mechanical wear and eventually failure...IMO.

Cheers, Spanky.

[Oldskool]

Filter and oil every 4000 miles or less after the initial break in period. Just turned 4500 miles...I'll be changing to synthetic next change. Those are all street miles soooo it's ok. When I had the track bike (GSXR 750 that I now call the pile of broken dreams and parts....that my wife called my last chance at being young forever) it was every other race.

In my younger days I changed it when I could afford it

[Will]

I'm about to change my oil, the bike is 9,000 kms old and had the oil last changed 4 months ago at 6,000km service. I really want to change every 3,000 cause she's such a sweet girl but here's my problem. In the manual it says you have to use a "special tool" and the oil filter needs to be tightened to a specific torque measurement. Is this really neccesary and can I do the change at home no problems with a standard tool kit, even when I'm mechanically challenged?
I'm opening a big can of worms here but is 3,000km intervals too short, only ride on the street, mates call me riding miss daisy, 4 months since last oil change.

[02FBlade]

Ab, couldn't find any but I believe it was 5w30. It was two years ago....could be older stuff. I personally didn't find any problems w/ it but it wasn't magic either. It was my bro at the shop who said shifting sucked in his R1....and didn't carry any motul products except brake fluid.

I will say the motul brake cleaner sucks!!!!...I'll stick w/ the honda cleaner.



On the filter change...if your changing it very, very frequently I'd skip it....and I do. Of course it's best to change everytime.

[Scratch]

Originally Posted by Will

<snip> but here's my problem. In the manual it says you have to use a "special tool" and the oil filter needs to be tightened to a specific torque measurement. Is this really neccesary and can I do the change at home no problems with a standard tool kit, even when I'm mechanically challenged?

You can do it at home, no problems. You need to buy the oil filter wrench that's available at any Honda dealership, it's about $9-$12US here. It works with a regular socket wrench, 3/8inch here in the States.

As far as torqueing the new oil filter onto the bike, standard rule of thumb is to go hand tight as far as you can get it, then give it an extra 1/4 to 1/2 turn using the filter wrench/socket wrench combo. Remember to dip your finger in the new oil and put a light coating of oil on the new oil filter's o-ring before installation. It's really very easy and once you do it a few times it will be 2nd nature. You might just end up changing your oil a bit more frequently

[02FBlade]

Originally Posted by Scratch

You can do it at home, no problems. You need to buy the oil filter wrench that's available at any Honda dealership, it's about $9-$12US here. It works with a regular socket wrench, 3/8inch here in the States.

As far as torqueing the new oil filter onto the bike, standard rule of thumb is to go hand tight as far as you can get it, then give it an extra 1/4 to 1/2 turn using the filter wrench/socket wrench combo. Remember to dip your finger in the new oil and put a light coating of oil on the new oil filter's o-ring before installation. It's really very easy and once you do it a few times it will be 2nd nature. You might just end up changing your oil a bit more frequently

Tighten by hand snug. No need to put a wrench to it....or it will be a beotch to get off.

[abtech]

Originally Posted by Scratch

Hey abtech while we're on the subject, where can one get a good price on 300v? And is there a difference between 300v"4t" and 300v or are they identical? I'm assuming 4t is four stroke? Some of the ads are confusing... I liked the motul 5100 semi-synth but would love to run the 300, only thing is the price is kinda high..

300v and 300v 4T are the same animal. Street and Competition carries the entire Motul line. The "good" (all ester) 2 stroke oil is 800 2T, so you are correct in assuming the 4T refers to four stroke.

While on the subject, the "Motul Rep" may tout mixing 5100 and 300v, but that is entirely due to the sticker shock effect that 300v has on most people. Straight 300v will yield more power, protect better and last longer than any mix of synth and synth blend. You also lose much of the electrolytic adhesion that ester based oil has when you mix it with any mineral based product and negate a major amount of the native protection found in ester based products.

The urban legend of not using full synth until the engine is broken in (say after 1000 or 1500 miles) comes from the time when all available full synthetic oils contained friction modifiers which inhibit crucial ring seal on new engines. It also stems from using full synthetic oils that allow rust to form on internal surfaces (PAO and PAO blends contain quite a bit of sulphur, water and modified O2 molecules). I drain the factory stuff and use 300v before the engine is ever started (although they do a short run-in at the factory these days) and have yet to have any type of break-in issues.

[Scratch]

Originally Posted by abtech

300v and 300v 4T are the same animal. Street and Competition carries the entire Motul line. The "good" (all ester) 2 stroke oil is 800 2T, so you are correct in assuming the 4T refers to four stroke.

While on the subject, the "Motul Rep" may tout mixing 5100 and 300v, but that is entirely due to the sticker shock effect that 300v has on most people. Straight 300v will yield more power, protect better and last longer than any mix of synth and synth blend. You also lose much of the electrolytic adhesion that ester based oil has when you mix it with any mineral based product and negate a major amount of the native protection found in ester based products.

The urban legend of not using full synth until the engine is broken in (say after 1000 or 1500 miles) comes from the time when all available full synthetic oils contained friction modifiers which inhibit crucial ring seal on new engines. It also stems from using full synthetic oils that allow rust to form on internal surfaces (PAO and PAO blends contain quite a bit of sulphur, water and modified O2 molecules). I drain the factory stuff and use 300v before the engine is ever started (although they do a short run-in at the factory these days) and have yet to have any type of break-in issues.

Thanks for the info, really cleared some things up. I checked out street & comp's website and found it for $12.95 per liter, a bit steep, just wondering if it's available anywhere by the gallon for a bit less? If not no biggie, just curious.

[abtech]

Originally Posted by Scratch

Thanks for the info, really cleared some things up. I checked out street & comp's website and found it for $12.95 per liter, a bit steep, just wondering if it's available anywhere by the gallon for a bit less? If not no biggie, just curious.

I have said this several times (although I expect to say it again). Don't go to the Street & Comp website, it's a waste of time. Call them directly and ask for Dan Bowen. Mention Fireblades.org. I believe he can get the gallon jugs.

[llhank]

Originally Posted by bjay51d

I was wondering how many miles other people ride before an oil change.I been changing my oil after 2000 miles for years.I dont do the synthetic ever since I tried it in my 95 900rr and the clutch slipped.So I just use regular 1040 honda oil....Do you thing I change it to soon?

I think you could cut your oil change budget by 4. First, 4000 miles is plenty good for the oils and filters available today. Second, automotive 10-40 costs 1/2 as much a "motorcycle specific" oil while there's no difference in performance between them. There are numerous references to back this up plus lots of guys will tell you their favorable experiences over the lifetimes of their bikes.

Save your money for other things.

llhank

[RRTSean]

I do that few miles these days mine is done on a time base rather than miles, every 6 months in my case, which is less than 2000 miles(it was less than 700 last time) and I use castrol r4 superbike with no problems

[PS94]

Umm, so...in reading this post...I shouldn't be using car oil in either of my bikes? I'm just running regular MOBIL 1 15-50 Synthetic....is this bad?

[Scratch]

Originally Posted by abtech

I have said this several times (although I expect to say it again). Don't go to the Street & Comp website, it's a waste of time. Call them directly and ask for Dan Bowen. Mention Fireblades.org. I believe he can get the gallon jugs.

Could you repeat that one more time please? Didn't mean to be a pain, I'll call Dan.

[Scratch]

Originally Posted by PS94

Umm, so...in reading this post...I shouldn't be using car oil in either of my bikes? I'm just running regular MOBIL 1 15-50 Synthetic....is this bad?

From what I hear it's 50/50 on the mobil 1 red-cap. One friend's been running the mobil 1 from '02 till now. He's had zero problems and no clutch slippage issues. Another guy I rode with used the mobil 1 but switched back to a semi-synth claiming that he did notice some minor clutch slippage. I know that's absolutely of no help to you but that's what I'm here for.

My view is that I have alot invested in my bike (money, time and energy) and I don't have the time or inclination to worry about "if" a non-specific oil will be "ok". Yes I've heard stories of 100k+ miles on original engines running Yamalube 10w30 so if you change it often enough I suppose just about anything is ok (as long as it doesn't mess with yo clutch..)

Using motorcycle specific synthetics is like using a condom. You feel a little uneasy about doing it but in the end you sleep better knowing you did the best thing for long term protection. Can you really put a price on something like that?

[PS94]

lol, maybe when this oil's due, I'll throw on a rubber, and buy actual motorcycle oil......

[FuTAnT]

Originally Posted by bjay51d

I was wondering how many miles other people ride before an oil change.I been changing my oil after 2000 miles for years.I dont do the synthetic ever since I tried it in my 95 900rr and the clutch slipped.So I just use regular 1040 honda oil....Do you thing I change it to soon?

Mobil 1 Racing 4T (Mobil 1 for bikes) is fine for the Blades, I've used it myself, and know of other people that use it and the clutch doesn't slip. Very nice stuff.

But anyhoo, I change my oil every 6000km as I use a fully synthetic. If I was using a lesser oil, it might be every 3000km (2000mile I guess) as you suggest. Really depends on the oil and what kinda use. If you just do trackdays and that's it, then more frequently, 'cause you're redlining the thing all the time.

[FuTAnT]

Originally Posted by saf

They do . Semi Synth WILL protect a engine more that fully synth. The only advantages full synth has is less internal drag = more power, better cold startup, and greater resistance to heat breakdown.

Can you back these claims up? I'd like to see why a semi synth protects better than a full synth, since the whole idea of oil is putting itself inbetween metal/metal surfaces. Synthetics last longer as they don't break down as quick (polymer chains are longer in the first place, and they are less likely to break down) hence providing more protection for longer.

Well, that's what I *thought* ... so how does a semi synth work better than a full synth? and ... in which case, didn't you just say you used Silkolene full synth? Why, if you think semi does a better job?

[FuTAnT]

Originally Posted by Scratch

You need to buy the oil filter wrench that's available at any Honda dealership, it's about $9-$12US here. It works with a regular socket wrench, 3/8inch here in the States.

Honda make their 204 type filters with the cap included for a measely few dollars more. Over here it's $19 AUD for the filter, or $25 for the filter and wrench in together, cheaper than buying an aftermarket filter socket by itself!

Ask you Honda dealer, should be no worries.

[saf]

Originally Posted by FuTAnT

Can you back these claims up?

As i said before, im not a lab geek in a white coat with oil breakdown data. This is only what i can say that people i have spoken to in the oil industry as in reps and importers over the years, along with suppliers of race parts as i mentioned previously , Web cams, one of the largest aftermarket bike and car performance cam supply people, will only advise to stick with a good semi synth and NOT a full synth. Bike manufacturers also have no dislike for a good semi synth .

Originally Posted by FuTAnT

.. so how does a semi synth work better than a full synth? and ... in which case, didn't you just say you used Silkolene full synth? Why, if you think semi does a better job?

Why , is simple . Its a track bike, and since its a trackbike its subjected to a lot of heat that a street bike would not be subjected to, hence my previous post (#11) "... and greater resistance to heat breakdown". Same can be said for 2 storokes in the castor and synth debate. Castor will jam up powervalves in a big way real fast, but apart form that it WILL look after a engine as good and in some very high rpm cases , better than synthetic, yet on paper castor will have a bad rep , and the fact its half price of a good synth, means its got to be worse right ? ..... wrong .

[llhank]

Scratch said: Using motorcycle specific synthetics is like using a condom. You feel a little uneasy about doing it but in the end you sleep better knowing you did the best thing for long term protection. Can you really put a price on something like that?

If it makes you feel better then do it, by all means. As for me, I'd sleep better knowing my mattress was stuffed with more money, especially what I save on oil and a host of other avoidable luxuries. I recommend you readers check out the following article about oils and maintenance habits. To me, it seems to make sense. llhank

http://www.yft.org/tex_vfr/tech/oil.htm

[abtech]

Originally Posted by llhank

Scratch said: Using motorcycle specific synthetics is like using a condom. You feel a little uneasy about doing it but in the end you sleep better knowing you did the best thing for long term protection. Can you really put a price on something like that?

If it makes you feel better then do it, by all means. As for me, I'd sleep better knowing my mattress was stuffed with more money, especially what I save on oil and a host of other avoidable luxuries. I recommend you readers check out the following article about oils and maintenance habits. To me, it seems to make sense. llhank

http://www.yft.org/tex_vfr/tech/oil.htm

That article glaringly omits any references to the well documented testing on pure ester based oils and does not mention the distinction between PAO and Ester or other "true" synthetic products. Every oil he mentions as being "full synthetic" is a PAO based product and as such is made from "enhanced" mineral or dino based raw stock and as such is not a "full synthetic" product at all. His comment:

"What about the claims by specialty motorcycle oil manufacturers, that their oil is better?

That's a good one. Next time you hear that line, simply ask, "What evidence do you have?" I've never seen any. If you do get any, please let me know! I don't believe that there is any. "

demonstrates that either this article was written 10 years ago or his research was pretty limited as Motul, Silkolene, Amsoil and Motorex have tons of "evidence" proving that in fact, "their oil is better".

[llhank]

It sure would be convincing if motorcycle oil companies supplied data and proof of their products' efficacy. None, however, has been found by me yet. I would surely love to be pointed to this information if anyone knows where it exists.
A simple yahoo search of motorcycle oils yields plenty of articles to debunk the 'motorcycle specific' advocacy. Among them, is a landmark test conducted by Motorcycle Consumer News. Please read it. llhank

http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/oiltest1.htm

[ConqSoft]

That one was from 1994. A LOT has changed since then.

[llhank]

Originally Posted by ConqSoft

That one was from 1994. A LOT has changed since then.

Like what?