Cylinder not firing

carp4 · 09-07-2006, 6:01 PM

I just bought a 2001 929RR last week but didn't get to ride it much until today because it's been raining. (The bike did sit out during the storm because the company I ordered the cover from said it would only take a day to get and it took 5.) The guy I bought the bike off of wasn't the previous owner. He had taken it as a down payment for a Harley VRod he sold to someone, so I wasn't able to ask the original owner any questions.

I rode the bike home the day I bought it and it was awesome. It rained for like 3 days so I had to wait to ride it again. Everything was running great still, but after a while the red light and the FI light came on. I stopped the bike and turned it off for a bit and started it again. The light was off now, but then the gas light came on. I filled it up with gas and noticed the engine acting a little funny but then it cleared up. I didn't get to ride it for another couple days because of weather.

I finally got to ride it again today. Last night I had put some fuel injector cleaner in the tank. The bike only has 2900 miles on it, so it has probably sat around a lot. (The guy I bought it from had to put a new battery on it before he sold it because no one had ridden it since last winter.) I thought maybe the engine was choppy because something from the tank got sucked up into the injectors when the gas got low. I rode the bike for about 5 miles to work and it really started sputtering.

After work I was listening to it and it sounded like it was only running on 3 cylinders. I rode it around for a while at 3 to 4 thousand rpms, hoping that the injector cleaner would clean things up and it'd start running. After like 10 miles it wasn't helping so I went home. Three of the pipes coming out of the cylinders were hot enough to burn off your skin and one I could hold my finger on.

Tomorrow I plan on changing the spark plugs, hopefully that's all it is. I've never changed the plugs on a bike before, so if anyone has any tips on how to do it, please let me know. Or if you have any other ideas about what the problem might be. I think it if it was the fuel filter, all the cylinders would be messed up. Do you think the rain could have fouled one of the plugs?

The bike is in good condition, it has some scratches on both sides, but I can tell it wasn't layed down hard because all the mirrors and turn signals are original, slightly scratched but not broken at all. The tires and chain look good. Low miles. There are random loose nuts and bolts I found when I went over the bike, I don't think the original owner did any maintance on it at all. I probably need to do an oil and filter change while I'm messing with the plugs. Hopefully I can show her a better home now. Definately a lot more fun to ride than the 93 Katana 750 I had before.

*Fastrr* · 09-07-2006, 9:09 PM

Spark plugs won't be the problem. Save your time and money and hastle. You've got water inside an electrical connection somewhere. Possibly water sitting around the spark plug boot area, where it connects to the spark plug. Pull the spark plug wire off for that cylinder's plug and shove a small cut up rag down into the hole to absorb any water that may be in there. Also leave the plug wire off until things have time to dry up. You can leave the spark plug in while doing this.

carp4 · 09-08-2006, 7:21 AM

Ok, I'll try that first. Could I have messed anything up by riding it while it was messed up?

*Fastrr* · 09-08-2006, 5:42 PM

I don't think so.

carp4 · 09-08-2006, 8:08 PM

Ok, I took off the wires and nothing was wet. Tried to dry them anyway and it didn't help. I went and bought new spark plugs (How are they possibly 26 dollars a piece???) I put them in and it didn't help either. I'm really lost now. If anyone has any ideas please let me know. I am going to call the guy I bought it from and see if we can work something out because I've only put 30 miles on it.

clutchslip · 09-09-2006, 6:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp4

I went and bought new spark plugs (How are they possibly 26 dollars a piece???) .

You are kidding, right?

Did you check to see if you have spark to the cylinder in question? If you paid $26 a piece for plugs, maybe I should charge you ten bucks for telling you the following:

Attach new spark plug to spark plug wire cap on suspected bad cylinder. Do NOT install in engine. Make sure the plug is grounded, (touching the engine).
Turn over the engine. If you see a spark on the plug, then the plug and/or plug wire are NOT your problem.

Good luck. And don't pay over a hundred for a air filter. j/k

carp4 · 09-09-2006, 11:58 AM

I checked it and there is a spark. Must be something with the fuel injection I guess? Probably time to take it to a mechanic.

What spark plugs do you buy that are cheaper? I went to the Honda dealer and that's all they had were the stock ones and the guy selling them was surprised at how much they cost.

*Fastrr* · 09-09-2006, 12:05 PM

The problem lies with going to the Honda dealer. I'd take the plugs out and return them to the dealer, if they don't want to do it then talk to the manager about the Better Business Buero and that you will file a report with them. They ripped you off.

A new NGK normal type plug costs $3-8 each. An NGK Iridium plug costs $9-13 each.

Ok i just re-read your first post. A 5 year old bike with only 2,900 miles on it tips me off that it has bad - varnished gasoline in it. Empty the fuel tank of all the gas in it. Leave the fuel pump assembly bolted to the tank for now. Now get some fresh gas ( . 5 gallons or so ) and put it in the tank, now with the tank off the bike swish the good gas around to clean the tank.. also may want to put some fuel addative in there as a cleaner. Dump all that old fuel out into a fuel safe container, to never be used again.

Now remove-unbolt the fuel pump from the gas tank, change the fuel filter to a new one. Check all your fuel lines and fuel vent lines for blockages - blow through them to see if air comes out the opposite side. I know it sucks, but this is about all i can tell you to get rid of old bad fuel. About having the injectors cleaned... maybe someone has a machine at a shop that cleans them out? I don't know but you may have clogged fuel injector/s to boot.

carp4 · 09-09-2006, 12:08 PM

I know that the cylinder isn't working because when I start the bike, 3 of the pipes coming out into the exhaust get really hot. One stays completely cold. it's the one on the far right when looking at the bike. The bike is really choppy sounding, has no power.

flea954rr · 09-09-2006, 12:10 PM

the stock iridium plugs are rediculously priced.

the cheapest i've found the is here Spark Plugs - NGK Spark Plugs - BOSCH Spark Plugs - DENSO Spark Plugs - Splitfire Spark Plugs - KYB Shocks & Struts - K&N Air Filters & Oil Filters Club Plug Spark Plugs at wholesale prices.

also, if the red fi light is coming on, it should by the way it blinks tell you what the problem is. on my bike the long blink means 10, and the short means 1. (example: long blink, short, short= 12)

if you don't have a manual, post the # and someone will help you...good luck

carp4 · 09-09-2006, 12:12 PM

The light isn't on anymore... Is there a way to recall what the error code is from when it came on last time?

*Fastrr* · 09-09-2006, 12:19 PM

Carp, ok you've got spark.. i just edited my post above to let you know what to do next. Or as the other gent said you can take a look at the error code, but one word.. computers are dumb and can't always pinpoint problems to the exact cause. Computer can only point you in the general direction.. which i thouroughly believe is old, bad fuel.

Anyone, if i'm wrong about the computer codes then speak up

flea954rr · 09-10-2006, 9:55 AM

fastrr, i will agree that computers can be dumb, but pointing in a general direction is extremely helpful and less time consuming.

carp, all fast has suggested seems like things that need to be done, PEROID, to rid the tank of old varnished fuel. if a stabilizer wasn't used for the long storage periods the bike obviously saw, the likelihood of contaminated fuel, clogged fuel filter, and lines and possibly injectors.

if you are looking to save $$, do everything that fastrr said, fill it with clean fuel and an injector cleaner (i recommend chevron techron), and try to ride the fuel system clean. you may want to change the filter again after a tank or two of clean fuel to ensure no more problems.

carp4 · 09-10-2006, 9:58 AM

Would it be a bad idea to take out that spark plug and spray carb cleaner down in the cylinder and let it sit in there for a while?

flea954rr · 09-10-2006, 10:49 AM

yes...the possibility is there that it will make it past the rings and into the oil. BAD IDEA, and all you are going to do is make a mess in the cylinder. do what was previously suggeted and it will gradually clean itself, and not have a chunk of carbon build up come off and cause valve seating issues (worst case scenario).

carp4 · 09-10-2006, 11:59 AM

Ok, thanks for all the advice. What's the best fuel filter to use in it?

*Fastrr* · 09-10-2006, 1:58 PM

I believe Honda, to the best of my knowledge, is the only company that makes the fuel filter. The filter is inside the gas tank - mounted to the fuel pump assembly. Check prices online before pricing your local Honda dealer. These are just some suggested parts suppliers: I've used both of them and haven't had shipping problems.

Ron Ayers Motorsports - Motorycle, ATV, Jet Ski and Generators Parts and Accessories ( east coast area )
Western Honda Home Page ( west coast area )

carp4 · 09-10-2006, 2:08 PM

Thanks, that website is awesome. Has the entire Microfiche on there so you can order any part.

carp4 · 09-11-2006, 5:27 PM

While I'm waiting on the fuel filter to get here I drained the tank and put in a lot of fuel injector cleaner and a little fresh gas, then turned on the run switch a few times to get the fuel pump to push some of it through the lines. I let it sit for a while then started it... the pipe for the cylinder got hot. I took it for a little spin and it felt like it had full power sometimes and then didn't sometimes, so I think you guys pin pointed the problem. Can't wait to finish cleaning out the lines, hopefully it works.

The FI light came on and it threw the error code 35.

*Fastrr* · 09-11-2006, 8:03 PM

Flea954RR can probably tell you what that error code means. I have a CBR929 Honda tech manual but can't find the codes. When you go to pull the fuel line off from the bottom of the fuel tank wrap a rag around it because it is slightly presurized. The rag will just keep the small amount of fuel that comes out contained. It sounds like your on the right track with cleaning the lines and injectors. It runs like doggy doo still because i'm sure there is still crud in the fuel system. Also when you have your new fuel filter take a clean lint-free rag and wipe the inside of the bottom of the gas tank to clean it more. It may take you a couple tanks of gas to get the fuel injectors cleaned. Wait till you get your new filter though.

flea954rr · 09-13-2006, 10:27 AM

35 is faulty EGCV and air intake valve servo motor.

i still would advise cleaning the fuel system completely.

carp4 · 09-22-2006, 2:20 AM

I took it to a guy I work with today. He works on bikes but not for a living and only charges 25 an hour. He has a lift and nice tools and stuff to actually work on it right. We checked the headers with a heat gun and both the outside tubes were a little low in temperature compared to the middle. The one I noticed was a good bit lower than the other one. That was after a 20 min ride to his house. We checked the HTEV valve and it seems to be opening up like it should. Took the fuel filter to him to install too.

I gave up on trying to fix it in my parking lot at my apartment. Definately need to get a garage when I move in a month. I can get by with an oil change or plugs, but it's hard with much more than that. I'll let you guys know what the problem was when it's fixed though in case the same thing ever happens to you.

ChromeBumper · 09-24-2006, 9:19 PM

FWIW, I had similar symptomsn when I let my bike sit for a year or so and then put it back on the road. At first I thought it was one weak cylinder but it was the outer two cylinders that weren't firing, due to the fact that the fuel pressure regulator diaphram was leaking into the vacuum lines (which take vacuum from ports near the outer two cylinders' intake). You might want to pull the vacuum line off the pressure regulator and see if fuel pees out (it shouln't).

Atomicpunk · 09-25-2006, 5:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChromeBumper

FWIW, I had similar symptomsn when I let my bike sit for a year or so and then put it back on the road. At first I thought it was one weak cylinder but it was the outer two cylinders that weren't firing, due to the fact that the fuel pressure regulator diaphram was leaking into the vacuum lines (which take vacuum from ports near the outer two cylinders' intake). You might want to pull the vacuum line off the pressure regulator and see if fuel pees out (it shouln't).

Thank you for posting this. I just found out that I had the same problem. The whole time This was happening, I blamed it on the exhaust I installed, and kept messing with the fuel map. My #1 and #4 plugs were fowling out and the bike kept loosing power intermitantly. Just ordered a new diaphram from Honda for $80 cant wait to get back on the road.

carp4 · 09-27-2006, 1:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChromeBumper

FWIW, I had similar symptomsn when I let my bike sit for a year or so and then put it back on the road. At first I thought it was one weak cylinder but it was the outer two cylinders that weren't firing, due to the fact that the fuel pressure regulator diaphram was leaking into the vacuum lines (which take vacuum from ports near the outer two cylinders' intake). You might want to pull the vacuum line off the pressure regulator and see if fuel pees out (it shouln't).

THANKS!!

You nailed the problem.

The tank was definately dirty so we replaced the fuel filter. The cable from the servo motor that opens the air flap in the breather had come disconnected also. (probably what through that FI light) We hooked it back up and the bike had power above like 3500 RPM but still ran really rough down low. Checked the diaphram like you said and sure enough it was leaking. Ordering one today to replace it. Hopefully she'll run good as new.

Thanks for the help everyone.. I definately learned a lot about the bike through all of this.

carp4 · 10-19-2006, 8:41 AM

By the way, if anyone else has this problem... you might want to change the oil on your bike. Changed mine after the new fuel pressure regulator and you can smell fuel in the old oil. I guess it got in through the vaccum lines?

flabre · 08-06-2007, 10:34 PM

Hey guys & gals. It looks like I'm am having the same exact problem. It's a good thing I stumbled across this thread. If not, who knows how much it would've cost me to get it fixed at a shop. I can't wait till the $80 part comes in the mail so I can go riding again.