fuel economy

lanbrown · 05-18-2008, 5:34 PM

Frank,

My 1000RR can get over 50MPG; just not sustained. It still can get over 50MPG. So don't ever say period unless you said something like. No 600cc will ever get 50MPG average fuel economy over the entire fuel in tank in normal riding conditions. Then you could say period. However, I did manage to get close to 40MPG on the 1000RR doing around 100MPH. I could have gotten near 50MPG (or at least 45MPG) at the posted 65MPH at night. Just saying.

I won't video tape it as I would need to shift and stop at lights before getting on the freeway. I cannot hold the phone and ride at the same exact time.

curt248 · 05-18-2008, 5:36 PM

I was getting 47 US mpg riding 2 up with my 929. It was a 1000 mile trip around the mountains over 5 days last year. It was awesome. Quite a bit less power at 8 to 12000 feet.

I consistently get 40mpg with it here in IL. This is with stock gearing and a 200/50/17 rear tire so I'm probably getting a little more than that.

frank · 05-18-2008, 5:58 PM

OK. i didn't think i had to be so specific but, you're right, you could have also driven down a 5% grade, like highway 75 in Colorado in-between VAil and Aspen, and easily gotten over 75MPG, perhaps much more if you put it in nuetral. but come on, i thought we were talking about a tankfull of gas and what the average will be. Still, i stand corrected, i should have said "Average" but then, to be fair, someone could start from Aspen, Colorado and head towards Glenwood Springs, heading down hill nealry all the way, and average 65mpg or more.

but i'm talking about everyday driving. By the way, when you calculated your 50mpg Lanbrown, the only way to have gotten a dead-on correct answer, is if you stoppped, filled your tank up, drove down the road, stopped again, re-filled your tank up, and then done the math. that is the only way to have a spot-on correct measurement. PERIOD!

Still, i'm not one to play it safe and here, i want to be proven wrong, so i will make the statement again, qualifying it this time, in order to be more accurate: NO ONE WITH A 4 CYLINDER BIKE OVER 600cc CAN GET 50mpg doing the speed limit and not driving down a graded slope or road. the only way to calculate it and be 100% accurate is to FILL YOUR GAS TANK UP, DRIVE DOWN THE HIGHWAY, STOP AGAIN, FILL THE TANK BACK UP, AND DO THE MATH. it's very easy to do and i do it nearly every week because i do the same drive day after day and i get bored. i also do it with my 550 Husaberg and my 450 KTM. PLEASE, DO NOT USE YOUR TRIP-METER ON YOUR BIKE TO COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT YOUR BIKE IS GETTING 65MPG.

there's a very easy way to figure it out, and it only takes filling the tank up, driving, and re-filling it back up and doing the math. if someone here is gettting 50mpg on "Average" on their bike, man i gotta know. Take me to your leader, or dealer!!!

lanbrown · 05-18-2008, 6:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frank

but i'm talking about everyday driving. By the way, when you calculated your 50mpg Lanbrown, the only way to have gotten a dead-on correct answer, is if you stoppped, filled your tank up, drove down the road, stopped again, re-filled your tank up, and then done the math. that is the only way to have a spot-on correct measurement. PERIOD!

I used the onboard computer; it showed average and instant. I just filled up (the fuel light came on) and went right to the highway. I had another 30 to 40 miles of highway to go and that is what the average showed.

curt248 · 05-18-2008, 6:31 PM

Ok I hope that everyone is checking thier mileage the same way. Please don't be so condescending with your tone. I think this is the wrong forum for that. I fill up, watch the gas level so I can get the same amount the next time to get a correct measurement.

Like I said before I got an average of 47mpg in the mountains of colorado. It was a 1000 mile trip over 5 days. I was riding with 2 people on my 929. I did quite a few canon runs and was really on it hard for those runs. My girlfriend got kinda scared since some of the drop offs were quite high. This is unusual circumstances for me but not for anyone who lives in the colorado mountains. The elevation doesn't allow much air to get into the combustion chamber. Less air = less bang.

My last bike was a Suzuki GSX-F 600 (Katana). It consitently got 50mpg in mixed driving. I put 7000 miles on it in one summer and measure the gas mileage at each fill up.

I'm sure someone rides with less throttle than me and could get better gas mileage. I am a motocrosser and bought the bike for fun as well as gas mileage, so I do ride hard at times.

bladeracer · 05-18-2008, 8:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frank

Man, i don't know what kind of drugs some of you guys are doing here but, i want some. fast. no 4cylinder motorcycle over 600cc gets over 50mpg. period. check your math again, please. your 600cc and 1000cc bikes are not getting over 50 US mpg.

You don't honestly think anyone is going to go to that effort just because you don't believe us?
I know it happened or I wouldn't have bothered posting it and that's good enough for me...I'm sure the other guys feel the same.
I don't think I could've made it any more clear that I don't consider it to be in any way relevent to real world mileage, I merely mentioned it to support the previous post that such mileage is _possible_.

curt248 · 05-18-2008, 11:44 PM

Frank. Haven't you learned that using absolutes in anything is usually a recipe for being wrong.

frank · 05-19-2008, 2:32 AM

Bladeracer, curt248, i'm merely challenging you guys on your claims. i don't know what kind of "effort" it takes to merely set your trip meter to zero next time you fill up your tank, and then when you fill it back up the next time, divide the amount of gallons into whatever your trip meter says. i.e your trip meter says 180 miles since your last fill-up, and you just put in 4 gallons of gas. simply divide 180/4 = 45mpg. simple as that. i wouldn't call this much "effort."

I apologize about the condenscending tone. still, it perplexes me that anyone here would look at their on-board computer and come to the conclusion after a few miles that they were getting over 50mpg.

I'm so convinced that you cannot get 50mpg that i'm using the word "absolutely not, again." i say this becuase, as i mentioned before, i set my trip meter to zero everytime i fill up my tank and then when i fill it up again, i simply divide however many miles i put in the bike by the amount of gallons i just put in the bike. having done this now hundreds of times on all my bikes, i've yet to see over 40mpg on a 1000cc bike, driving the speed limit and not down a graded slope or road. again, i only drive on the highway ( I both live and work along the same stretch of highway), so to give you the benefit of the doubt, i'm only considering highway driving in my calculations.

Again, i just can't believe anyone here is looking at their onboard computer and assuming that it is even remotely correct for your whole tank of gas? yes, i understand that your looking at your bikes computer while your driving down the road and it says your getting over 50mpg. i do the same thing everyday so, of course i can easily relate. but trust me, once you refill your tank of gas up and divide the miles by the gallons, your going to find your onboard computer is not even remotely correct.

i'm challenging anyone here to prove me wrong. i'll apologize profusely and will be happy to stand corrected on my error and use of condenscending language. i have no problem being wrong. i'm 44 and i've been doing "real world" MPG calculations my whole life on all my bikes and i've yet to see anything remotely close to what people are claiming here on this topic.

bladeracer · 05-19-2008, 2:53 AM

How can you possibly believe you're the only rider that knows how to accurately measure his fuel economy?
I was talking about the challenge you posted asking us to videotape the events just to prove it to you.
I've been riding for twenty-three years now and racing almost as long. I also do fairly regular very long distance touring on my bikes and in the cars. I'm quite capable of calculating my own fuel economy thank you...
On my racebikes I measure exactly how many litres go into to a tank previously filled to a measured mark. I know exactly how long the circuit is and I know how many laps I've done including slow down and warm up laps.
On long distance trips you can _very_ accurately measure your fuel economy.

bladeracer · 05-19-2008, 2:57 AM

As for onboard computers I have yet to hear of one that _accurately_ measures real-world fuel economy outside of extremely expensive scientific equipment.

frank · 05-19-2008, 3:25 AM

Again, bladeracer: i'm challenging you on the claim that you or anyone else here is getting 50mpg on their 1000cc bike doing normal driving over the course of one tankfull of gas. i think you'll find many people here rejoicing, myself included, if you can provide any evidence supporting your claim.

i'm not against you here. i own a honda 954 and there would nothing more i would enjoy than to know that i can suddenly start gettting 50mpg. i'll be bragging to all of my friends that i ride with down here. i'll show them the evidence that you provide me with. (it doesn't have to be video evidence either; a simple picture of the the trip meter before and after will do along with the amount of gallons from the fuel pump.) if you don't have the time or don't want to make the effort, i will totally understand. who has this much time to spare in their day for such a trivial un-important Doubting Thomas like myself. i'm a skeptic, i'm sorry. Still, i think you will find that it would please a lot of people if you could show people the kind of gas mileage a 1000cc honda is capable of.

p.s how could i know that when you used the word "Effort" in your previous post that you were referring to "video evidence?"

bladeracer · 05-19-2008, 3:55 AM

Your comment "if anyone here is getting 45mpg (US) i want you to video tape it and post it on here so that i can immediately apologize to you and swallow my words!!!!" is asking us to make the effort to prove it to you via videotape evidence.
Personally, I don't care in the slightest what mileage any of my bikes get.
The only reason I track it is to keep an eye on engine tune. As tune goes off mileage drops.
Even more importantly, it matters not the least to me whether you wish to believe me or not. I am certainly not going to put any effort at all into proving it to you :-)
If I'm right, 50mpg equates to only about 20kpl? 20kpl is _easy_ on my ZX6R.
I would expect that would actually be fairly reasonably acheivable on my 929 as well around town if I rode considerably more sedately - which I have no intention of doing.
I will add that I only run 98RON which is the highest octane available at the pump. The _only_ reason I run it is because it gives me more mileage in my cars and bikes. If I ran 91RON which is our lowest octane fuel I would expect 5-10% reduced mileage. As I stated at the beginning of this thread I _normally_ get around 13.5kpl out of my 929 around town. Cruising long distances with the throttle lock I get around 20kpl. Those are my _normal_ averages.
If _you_ want to get 70 or 80mpg out of your 954 I'm convinced you _can_ acheive it. I'm also convinced you will get absolutely no joy out of the experience and, if you're anything like me, you'll be cursing the various pains and cramps from lying on the tank for several hours while _constantly_ re-calculating your fuel possibilities while trying not to run out in the middle of a desert :-)

machinehead · 05-19-2008, 9:14 AM

I do brim to brim filling of the take to work out true MPG, and the speedo (and therefore I assume the mileage) is GPS calibrated using a speedo healer so its a close as I'm going to get it, better than 6% stock error anyway. In terms of real riding I get 36mpg (UK gallons, ~30 US) but if I use no more than 1/4 throttle and never any more than 5,000rpm I can get 50mpg (~41 US) from a tank but that's such a stupid/tedious way to ride I'ld never do it again - it was just to prove a point that it can be done but its not real world riding.

This topic of MPG comes up from time to time and I'm alway amazed how you guys in the US get such high MPG, the US gallon is < UK gallon?!?

frank · 05-19-2008, 12:39 PM

MachineHead, your results confirm my results that i posted on page 2 of this topic. you're avering 41 US gallons (50UKmpg) to the mile, and i'm averageing 39.1 US mpg. Were only 2mpg in difference. You got this by only half throttle driving and not exceeding 5000rpm!! And i'm doing strictly highway driving (i live and work alongside the same stretch of highway.) so imagine my surprise when someone tells me that they averaged 50 US gallons to the mile!!

If your best was 41 US mpg, and mine is 39.1, then i'm totally perplexed how anyone here can get 50 US mpg?? I'm not only convinced that they're absolutely wrong, i'm standing behind what i said earlier: "Take me to your drug dealer. Immediately!

Sorry about the condenscending tone. i'm trying to be funny here.

1 us gallon = 4.401 liters. a honda cr954rr has an 18 liter tank = 4.76 US gallons. (1 gallon UK = 1.20 US gallon. don't confuse the two.)

curt248 · 05-19-2008, 1:58 PM

It you look at my post above. I got 47 US mpg while riding with two people on my 929 in the mountains. Everyone in the mountains gets better gas mileage because there is less air available for combustion. You also get less power. I kept getting this for the entire 1000 mile trip. Imagine what mileage I would have gotten if I was riding with just me on it?

frank · 05-19-2008, 6:08 PM

Curt248, in all due respect. your findings contradict MachineHeads' and mine. there's no problem with that except that your results fly in the face of what i commonly observe on a weekly basis, and what Machinehead observed driving only at half-throttle and below 5000rpm. in fact, your results are even more disparaging when you consider that you drove with two people on your bike, and yet, still was able to achieve 47 US mpg. that's amazing! i don't own a car here on this island so, i only drive my motorcycle everyday, down the same highway, back and forth to work, never exceeding 70mph except on a very rare occassion. so my RPM's are even lower than Machinehead's, and yet, i only average 39.1 mpg tank after tank, week after week, and month after month. i think its possible that you got your numbers incorrect or measured incorrectly? Still, i can be easily convinced otherwise and swayed: fill your tank up, do your normal highway driving, and the next time you fill your tank back up, divide the gallons into the miles you put on your bike since your last re-fill. it takes only about 10 seconds worth of effort and you will make a firm believer out of me, and i will apologize for ever doubting your math.

Still, you mention that you got your 47mpg while driving up in the mountains where the air is more conducive to better gas mileage. if true, it seems strange to me that it would have such a dramatic differrence? Also, when driving in the mountains, aren't there times when you're also climbing the mountain before going back down it? If so, is it possible that your 47mpg was a result of you calculating your MPG while only going down the mountain and not during the climb? sorry if this is coming across as condenscending. it's not the tone i want to convey here. i'm just simply perplexed that anyone can get 8mpg more than me when i'm only doing highway driving, below 4000rpm and someone else is driving two on a bike, climbing up mountains and coming back down. I'm a Doubting Thomas.

curt248 · 05-19-2008, 6:18 PM

Well I do the gas mileage calculation just as you do. I fill up the tank to the same spot each time to ensure the same amount of fuel goes in each time. I then take the miles from my tripmeter that was zeroed from the last time I filled up and divide by the number of gallons the gas pump says were put into my bike. I started doing this will my first car when I was 16. That was 18 years ago.

I also got this mileage (47mpg) + or - 2mpg throughout the entire trip. It was 1000 miles (many tanks of gas). I went both up and down mountains. I measure every time I got gas. It's a strange habit I have, but it does help to tell if something is wrong with any of my cars or bikes.

If you've ever ridden in the mountains, you'd know what I mean by saying less power. It felt like I had around 30 less horsepower.

Like I also stated earlier, my 1993 suzuki gsx-f 600 (katana) routinely got 50mpg + or - 2mpg. This was in Illinois and not in the mountains. I even got this mileage on a 400 mile trip to MN never going less than 100mph (I know not smart). I measured the gas mileage at each fill up. I rode it for 7000 miles in a summer and that is the mileage I got. I have stock size tires and stock gearing. That bike doesn't have quite the power of the new 600's but it was respectable.

Maybe you guys have really poor quality gasoline?

Maybe you don't have the smooth rodes that we have here in the states. One thing that a lot of people comment on when coming from different countries is how massive our highway system is here in the states.

frank · 05-19-2008, 6:27 PM

Then i stand corrected and i apologize for doubting your math. I'm happy that i'm wrong! it's a win-win situation here for everyone who drives their bike regularly when the gas prices are exceedingly high and a bike becomes even more of an economic asset. Frank

Mr. Hyde · 05-19-2008, 7:23 PM

ok check this out before i got the pc 3 i could get about 160 to 170 miles per tank, when i got the pc 3 i went to about 110 to 120 per tank thinking that it was that i was riding it hard i tried to ride right through 1 tank of gas and got about 115 to 125 miles to the tank. any ideas at what has caused this its a stock bike besides the pc 3. could this be because its running to rich

frank · 05-19-2008, 7:46 PM

your tank i believe is 4.76 gallons, which means if you were getting 170 miles to the tank, 176/4.76= 35.7mpg. that's more in line with what i get, although i do only highway driving which is why i get 4 more gallons to the mile than you. makes sense.

however, now, your only getting 125/4.76= 26.2 mpg. interesting. i'm curious as well to know why such a dramatic differrence?

machinehead · 05-20-2008, 3:00 AM

I still don't get why UK riders get such poor mileage - is it that the roads are norrower and twistier so we do more point and shoot? Do we ride harder - no thats doubtful with some people I have riden with!

Just gased up 16.34 litres 130.4 miles (brim to brim)
16.34l = 3.6 uk g or 4.3 US g (1:1.2)
so MPG = 36.2 uk or in US 30mpg

this what I consistantly get, with or without the PCiii - was the same for my 918 and 954 give or take a mile or two.

Compares well with other uk riders I speak with.

Still I did buy it for fun, not as a practicle ecconomic form of transport - whats worse is that the 2.8l car I owns does 30mpg (measured, not obc) but is a lot slower and no where near as much fun!

Bored now....................

bladeracer · 05-20-2008, 3:10 AM

What fuel quality are you running? I think the UK uses the same octane rating system as Australia?
If I ran 91RON I'd probably average slightly less than you just did.
I run 98RON because bike tanks are already so small and the extra mileage gets me further between fill-ups. The cost difference is on par with the extra mileage so the actual cost-per-kilometer costs me nothing more.
We also run 98RON in our Suzuki Swift which also gets the same fuel economy as the 929.

conor · 05-20-2008, 6:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by machinehead

I still don't get why UK riders get such poor mileage - is it that the roads are norrower and twistier so we do more point and shoot? Do we ride harder - no thats doubtful with some people I have riden with!

Compares well with other uk riders I speak with.

HA! I bought my blade in the UK and rode it 370miles home, and even though the speed limit is 70mph, NO-ONE, was obeying it. The cars were doing a minimum of 80, up to (and above) 100mph.

It is true that in the UK and Ireland, our roads are super twisty, lots of stop & go's, unlike the US and Australia. They have lots of straight roads, whereas we have almost none. Even our motorways are twistyish.

Regards
Conor

conor · 05-20-2008, 7:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bladeracer

What fuel quality are you running? I think the UK uses the same octane rating system as Australia?
If I ran 91RON I'd probably average slightly less than you just did.
I run 98RON because bike tanks are already so small and the extra mileage gets me further between fill-ups. The cost difference is on par with the extra mileage so the actual cost-per-kilometer costs me nothing more.
We also run 98RON in our Suzuki Swift which also gets the same fuel economy as the 929.

My R6 manual it runs best on 95 unleaded.
Don't know for the blade yet as its still only a few days old (for me), have not looked into it yet.

I never see any difference between 98 and 95 though.
European fuel quality is the best in the world.
We have stringent laws for emmissions and all that stuff.

Eastern europe might be a different story, I'm talking about the EU.

bladeracer · 05-20-2008, 7:43 AM

I assume Europe also has seasonal fuel differences like much of the US does?
Out of curiosity does Europe have pump fuel higher than 98RON?

machinehead · 05-20-2008, 8:29 AM

runing 95RON, and Conor I concur - lots of roads - small area to fit them, gotta be more twisty!

The only way I would get more miles from 98RON is because my wallet is then completely empty and therefore lighter!! Nah, to be serious 98 RON, V-Power or whatever makes no difference in the bike, just costs more. Becasue the bike has no knock sensor to adjust (advance) the timing or anything it cannot take full advantage of the higher octane so its just a waste of £'s imo; I'm sure some mechs on here would be able to enlighten us in this regard but just from using it in the past (which I have) it made no decernable difference, certainly not enought to pay for itself - I believe in a car it could and reports on the BM forum do confirm this but the ecu can adapt to using it but the bike one can't.