[bladeracer]

Thanks for that. We did for a short time have BP 100RON race fuel available from pumps at a couple of stations just for racers. I don't know if it only has a higher detonation-resistance or if it also has power-enhancing additives like the 95 and 98. If it's only further refined to increase the RON with no other additives then it wouldn't make any difference at all. Twenty years ago I used it for racing purely because we considered it was a higher quality fuel but I doubt there was any performance benefit at all even in my higher-than-stock-compression motor. I ride my racebikes on the road as well with significantly reduced gearing (15/48 on the 929 currently and I did a 9000km+ ride across Australia with 15/47) with no problems at all. I haven't done comparisons but I'd expect lowering the gearing would generally use more fuel. There would be circumstances where lower gearing would improve fuel economy but generally revs drink fuel.
I speed everywhere. I consider it essential to stay alive. I don't speed excessively though and get no thrill from high speeds on the road - although I freely admit I did go through that stage many years ago. I would normally ride 10-15% above the posted limits but it's not a fixed rule. Even now I still find it strange how fast 250kph feels on the road but at the track it's totally routine and always too bloody slow :-)
On the track in the dry I got 8.4kpl last month at our lower speed circuit.
I also love backroads and roundabouts are great for wheelying out of but I don't pass people in corners - and I wouldn't ride with people that do. Leave that for the racetrack where it's actually encouraged :-)
I can't imagine circumstances where a PC would worsen fuel economy unless the map was really bad. Having a PC optimally mapped to suit your bike would give you the best fuel economy possible I would think. The USB is merely the means of talking to your computer - it doesn't affect its operation. I have a serial PC2 on the 929 which allows mapping the ignition as well but I don't use that feature. The PC is like preload adjusters - once you get it right you never touch it again unless you change something else.

[machinehead]

my PCiii has given more torque throughout the revs and +10bhp peak with no detriment to the mpg. I have BMC race filter, Blue flame evo exhaust, custom map in the PCiii.

[conor]

Originally Posted by machinehead

my PCiii has given more torque throughout the revs and +10bhp peak with no detriment to the mpg. I have BMC race filter, Blue flame evo exhaust, custom map in the PCiii.

Where did you get it done? I'm deffo getting one and really want it done to perfection. I don't mind taking it to the UK (again) if needed.

Suppose I could go up north to "England" as we Dubs call N.Ireland.
Drives the nordies mad -- my wife is one ;-0

[machinehead]

parts fitted my me, set up by Double Take of Southampton - good couple of blokes.

[bladeracer]

Originally Posted by machinehead

my PCiii has given more torque throughout the revs and +10bhp peak with no detriment to the mpg. I have BMC race filter, Blue flame evo exhaust, custom map in the PCiii.

Are you saying that you already had the muffler before you fitted the PC and the PC got you another 10hp over what the muffler already gave you?

[conor]

Originally Posted by machinehead

parts fitted my me, set up by Double Take of Southampton - good couple of blokes.

Nice 1, I'll look them up. Bit of a trip though!

- Car Ferry from Dublin to Wales, then what 300 miles?
I have some mates in Southhampton that I have not seen in far too long.

Whether the wife will EVER get on the back of the blade again... she hated the R6 two up, but at least her arse wasn't sore afterwards.

The seats are brutal! LOL.

I agree with setting up the maps correctly - on a dyno mind - as every pipe will alter fuelling in a diffent way. I feel mine is running a tad rich without it -- I sometimes get pop pop pop when downshifting, which I believe is down to a rich mixture. I think adding a PC makes total sense, even on stock pipes, as the eurocrats have forced their emmissions rubbish on us to the detriment of power AND fuel economy.

Great site by the way, would never have joined if I had of bought the R1 instead.

[machinehead]

bladeracer. I had one dyno run done completely stock then fitted all the mods at one time, had custom map done and the end result of it all was the +10bhp.

[bladeracer]

That's what I figured.
It's misleading to state "my PCiii has given more torque throughout the revs and +10bhp peak with no detriment to the mpg." as you did.
The PC3 did not give you 10hp.
The muffler gave you the hp. The PC merely allowed you to tune the fuel injection to optimise it.

[curt248]

Machinehead. Is the exhaust a full exhaust, slip on or bolt on? 10HP would seem kinda weak if it's a full exhaust with a custom map. 10HP would be really good if it's just a can.

[machinehead]

its a Blue flame evo exhaust - this is just an end can. exhaust valve and all is still in situ.

[frank]

Some more fuel savings myths explained in today's (May 22, 2008) CNNMoney.com

#3. Use Premium Fuel
With prices already over $4.00 a gallon, premium gasoline is a hard sell these days. But a lot of drivers think because their owners' manual recommends premium, they'll get better fuel economy if they stick with it. Really, they're paying more money for nothing.
Even cars for which premium is recommended won't suffer with regular fuel. Modern engine technology comes to the rescue again. When sensors detect regular instead of premium fuel, the system automatically adjusts spark plug timing. The result is a slight reduction in peak horsepower - really, you'll never notice - but no reduction in fuel economy.
6. Bolt-Ons and Pour-Ins
Before you buy a device that's supposed to make your car more fuel-efficient or pour in an allegedly gas-saving additive, ask yourself this: Don't you think oil and car companies aren't doing everything they can to beat their competitors?
If BP could add something to its gasoline that made cars go farther on a gallon, cars would be lining up at the company's pumps. Sure, people would burn their fuel-saving BP gas more slowly, but then they'd drive right past rivals' gas stations to come back to BP for more. BP stations could even charge more for their gas and still sell tons of the stuff.
So if there really was an additive that made gas burn up more slowly, it wouldn't be sold over the Internet one bottle at a time.
Likewise, car companies are already spending big bucks to increase fuel mileage. If General Motors could make its cars go significantly farther on a gallon simply by putting a device into the fuel line, don't think for a second it wouldn't be doing that. GM's car sales would go through the roof.
"There are a number of these gas-saving devices that are generally useless," says Champion.
But drivers who try them will swear they work. In reality, it's probably an automotive placebo effect, says Reed. Buy one of these devices or additives, and you're like to pay extreme attention to your fuel economy and how you drive.
Of course it can't hurt to keep a close eye on your driving habits -- and what kind of car you drive. In the end, that can make the most difference in saving gas
#2. Change Your Air Filter
Maintaining your car is important, but a clean air filter isn't going to save you any gas. Modern engines have computer sensors that automatically adjust the fuel-air mixture as an increasingly clogged air filter chokes off the engine's air supply.
While engine power will decrease slightly as the air filter becomes clogged, a lack of performance or an increase in fuel consumption will be negligible, Consumer Reports says.

[curt248]

No aftermarket mid pipe with that? Just the bolt on huh? 10HP is awesome! It does make a bit of sense though. If the can gives ~3HP and the custom map gives ~8HP, then 10 HP sounds about right. I just thought the custom map gave ~8HP only if you had a full exhaust. The stock map must just have a lot of room for improvement.

[bladeracer]

I would think the can would give closer to 5% so about 7-8hp would be about right. I put a can on my 750 _while_ it was sitting on the dyno and scored 6% with no jetting at all. Not much fun removing a redhot muffler though :-)
I would seriously doubt you'd gain 8hp just from a custom map. You often don't gain anything in peak power but you can gain some through the midrange. More importantly the mapping lets you build the most linear power.

[curt248]

I know hondagal had 138HP with her arata full exhaust then did the custom dyno map and ended up with 146HP on her 929. Of course she also has a silky smooth power curve as well.

From what I've read a full exhaust gives around 8-10HP and most people say a can gives 0-5HP. These are without custom maps.

Anyone else with experience in this area?

[bladeracer]

I prefer to work with percentages since quoted power varies so much.
I stand corrected - 8hp gain on 138hp is 6% which is pretty bloody good I reckon just for optimising the mapping. The mapping was probably more bang-for-buck than the system was.
I figure a can is worth about 5%. A good full system could be worth 10% or even more if well mapped but a bad system is only worth about the same as a can.

[curt248]

I haven't seen 10% increases for the full systems that I could find b4 and after dyno info on. I see 9hp (8-10)increases for 929's. 10% would be 13HP. If all are additive, just a pipe would give 143HP on a 130HP 929 and a 6% increase with mapping would give 151.6HP. I have yet to see a 929 dyno show anywhere near those kinds of increases for a full exhaust. The current 2008 1K puts out ~152HP.

Do you have any dyno charts to show these percentage increases. I have definitely not seen an average of 5% increase on a dyno with a can only. That would be 136.5HP on a 130HP stock bike.

[bladeracer]

Yes, it is unusual I've found for people to do before and after runs when fitting single components. Usually people make several changes before spending dyno money so you rarely see how each component really affects the result.
I should be able to dig up my 6% 750 dyno sheet although it was five years ago. The bike was totally stock and it only took about fifteen minutes to swap the can onto it and do another few runs. It was the best result the operator had ever seen for a can so I gave prints of the result to the guy that made the can for me :-) I never put a PC on it so I don't know what the optimal result might have been. I wouldn't expect to get 5% every time but I don't think it's unreasonable. As I said, 6% for mapping alone is at the extreme end in my experience and often there is no peak gain at all. Maybe the 929 headers are already very good so you don't see such a good improvement from aftermarket headers?
I meant a full system should be good for 10% including mapping but even more _might_ be possible if it's particularly well mapped. I think 16% would be a _very_ unlikely example.
I'm not sure what you mean by "an average increase" though.

[curt248]

I just meant that of the dyno tests I've seen with cans I hadn't actually seen any at 5hp gains, but most were at 3hp. I said average b/c there could always be one at the extreme end (like 5hp).

My bike currently is very smooth with the generic map for the full exhaust from the two brothers website. I did have to modify the map up to 2.5K to get rid of a surge that was there and also adjust the 0% throttle settings at 500, 1000 and 1500rpms to get it to idle smoothly.

I think I might try a custom dyno map later though. I don't think I would do this if I wouldn't get any HP gains across the board though. It would be a little too expensive to try to get the powerband smoother when its already smooth.

How much did it cost to dyno your bike?

I hear perth is beautiful. My geography professor said it's on his list of must see places in the world.

[bladeracer]

For the GSXR I only did a few base runs, then swapped the cans and did a few more. I think it was something like A$80 in early '03. I trawled through my hard drives before I hit the hay but couldn't find a scan of the GSXR map. I'll see if can find it on Gixxer.com but I have it in hardcopy so I might try scanning it again sometime.
The 929 I had custom mapped in February '04 which took most of the day and cost A$250. I was told recently that he's still only charging $250 flat rate for mapping a bike.
I would probably agree about Perth although I've never been overseas :-)
I've been around most of Oz though (heaps more racetracks over the eastern side) and nothing I've seen gives me any incentive to leave the lifestyle we have here. Isolation only sucks until you see how people in Sydney, Melbourne or the Gold Coast live - then it becomes a bonus :-)

[bladeracer]

Just came back here to post my fuel economy from the weekend's racing at a faster circuit.

At a tighter circuit where I just touch 200kph the 929 got 8.5kpl with 98RON.
At a faster circuit where we touch 250kph I got 7.8kpl with 98RON.

[dthiss]

It's very simple for me. my 08 1000rr gets about 40mpg around town and my truck gets about 15, so I would say that my bike is more fuel friendly .

[bladeracer]

Yes, but fuel is the cheap bit :-)
It costs roughly four times more to do the same mileage on my bike as it does in my car when you include tyres, chains, sprockets, brakes, chain lube, oil and filters :-)

[lanbrown]

Originally Posted by bladeracer

Yes, but fuel is the cheap bit :-)
It costs roughly four times more to do the same mileage on my bike as it does in my car when you include tyres, chains, sprockets, brakes, chain lube, oil and filters :-)

That is why I laugh when people say they are getting a motorcycle because they are cheaper.

[machinehead]

Ride a cb250 superdream and it will be cheap!! Litre sports bike? not a snowballs chance in hell!

[lanbrown]

If someone really wants cheap maint and great fuel economy, a scooter is better.

[dthiss]

I never said cheaper I said fuel friendly. It's just an excuse to ride more often. Besides the post was originally about fuel efficiency.


I'm not sure I believe 4x more per mile. I've never calculated it, but it seems high to me.

[curt248]

It depends on how many miles you ride and how quickly you go through tires.

I went 7000 on my dunlop qualifier rear tire and am still going on the front tire at 8000 miles. Outside of modifications that I did to the bike to personalize I only spent additional money on front bearings for ~$25 and a couple of oil changes ~$45. Registration on the bike is less than the car and insurance is also less. Ins bike is $140/yr and ins for the car is $440/yr.

I generally get 40mpg with my 929.

So car at 18mpg (full size V8 car) for 8000 miles = 444 gallons X $4.00/gallon = $1777 plus I had to buy a caliper for the car, 2 rotors and rear brake pads for $150. Lets assume the registration costs are equal. This is assuming I drove the same number of miles with my car of 8000 miles/yr
Car= $1777 (gas) + 150 (repairs) + 440 (ins) = $2367

Bike= 200 gallons gas =$800 + $140 (ins gotta love state farm) + $25 (repair) + $45 (oil changes) + $189 (rear tire) + $20 (mount rear tire) = $1388

It looks like I saved $979 for the 8000 miles I rode my bike instead of driving my car. Well not really saved since I still keep my car insured in case of bad weather but you get the point.

Huh. That came out pretty good. I guess I'll just have to ride my bike even more now!

[dthiss]

Originally Posted by curt248

It depends on how many miles you ride and how quickly you go through tires.

I went 7000 on my dunlop qualifier rear tire and am still going on the front tire at 8000 miles. Outside of modifications that I did to the bike to personalize I only spent additional money on front bearings for ~$25 and a couple of oil changes ~$45. Registration on the bike is less than the car and insurance is also less. Ins bike is $140/yr and ins for the car is $440/yr.

I generally get 40mpg with my 929.

So car at 18mpg (full size V8 car) for 8000 miles = 444 gallons X $4.00/gallon = $1777 plus I had to buy a caliper for the car, 2 rotors and rear brake pads for $150. Lets assume the registration costs are equal. This is assuming I drove the same number of miles with my car of 8000 miles/yr
Car= $1777 (gas) + 150 (repairs) + 440 (ins) = $2367

Bike= 200 gallons gas =$800 + $140 (ins gotta love state farm) + $25 (repair) + $45 (oil changes) + $189 (rear tire) + $20 (mount rear tire) = $1388

It looks like I saved $979 for the 8000 miles I rode my bike instead of driving my car. Well not really saved since I still keep my car insured in case of bad weather but you get the point.

Huh. That came out pretty good. I guess I'll just have to ride my bike even more now!