[929Fregm]

Has anyone used or know anyone who has a Bazzaz FIC module?
If so whats your/their feeling about it vs. other brands?
I am thinking about it for my 06' CBR1000rr. Suggestions?

Thanks.

[D.Nac]

check this unit out, it is a true self tuning unit

Motty AFR Tuner

[brads955]

D. Nac, have you actually used the Motty?

It sounds interesting, but setting up a constant closed loop learning that coexists with the stock system sounds like it would be a challenge to get it working properly. That is why I am curious what sort of feedback people really are having on it.

Both the Bazzaz and Power Commander look like they can be set up pretty easy to map with widebands, the ZFI even has a module that gives you recommendations for how to tweak the map, and all you have to do is approve them or not.

The downside of the Motty is that it looks like it requires you to cut and splice the wiring in, while the Bazzaz and power commander are both connectorized. The Motty and power commander only appear to control 4 of the injectors, the Bazzaz controls all 8. And only the power commander adjusts timing. They all appear to have a few pluses and minuses.

[slickwill]

Originally Posted by brads955

connectorized

That's a great word.

Dynojet has so many products available and almost all shops are familiar with them and used to tuning with them. It will be WAY easier to get support with a Dynojet product (PCIII) than it will with the others. That means a lot to me when I make a choice.

[929Fregm]

Originally Posted by D.Nac

check this unit out, it is a true self tuning unit

Motty AFR Tuner

So is the Bazzaz unit.

[squeeze]

The bazzaz fi-tc module does all of the above plus has a programmable traction control system and a quick shifter, plus the quick shifter has gear dependant kill times. With the power commander it's one kill time for all gears, the optimal kill time for 2 through 6 is shorter than 1-2 so you have to compromise with pc

[brads955]

Originally Posted by squeeze

The bazzaz fi-tc module does all of the above

Which "all of the above" you are referring to? Because above, I mentioned ignition timing, and the Bazzaz unit can not adjust timing.

[slickwill]

With the Bazzaz you do have to purchase Z-AFM Air Fuel Mapping Kit option ($349) in order for it to be "self-mapping." The TC option is very cool, expensive, but cool. So to get the "all of the above" plus self mapping you are at $1300+.

You can get self mapping on the PCIII by adding a Wideband commander. If you tack on the LCD display you can make the adjustments right on the bike. A little overkill I think but serious cool factor. I'd stick to using my laptop.

I'm not necessarily promoting one over the other. Just providing comparisons.

[lanbrown]

Originally Posted by brads955

Which "all of the above" you are referring to? Because above, I mentioned ignition timing, and the Bazzaz unit can not adjust timing.

Neither can the PCIII unless you buy the ignition module. Base to base, the Bazzaz is a better solution. Once you get to the options, there is no winner as they each can do something the other cannot. DynoJet doesn't offer a TC add-on and Bazzaz doesn't offer an ignition module.

[slickwill]

Originally Posted by lanbrown

Neither can the PCIII unless you buy the ignition module. Base to base, the Bazzaz is a better solution. Once you get to the options, there is no winner as they each can do something the other cannot. DynoJet doesn't offer a TC add-on and Bazzaz doesn't offer an ignition module.

Yep, that's basically what it comes down to and I would guess that Bazzaz comes up with an ignition module before DynoJet comes up with TC. I could be wrong though.

[lanbrown]

Originally Posted by slickwill

Yep, that's basically what it comes down to and I would guess that Bazzaz comes up with an ignition module before DynoJet comes up with TC. I could be wrong though.

I agree and I have a feeling that Bazzaz will go one further and provide it all in a single box; where DJ will require three boxes. I don't know about you, but space is at a premium these days.

[Ol' Gravy Leg]

i'm guessing that there would be greater interoperability in a single box between modules, too, as opposed to three.

good info on this thread.

anyone know if any of these allow you to put the unit on different bikes?

anyone know how the bazazz traction control works without having addional sensors?

[lanbrown]

The wiring is usually all that changes. Injectors all work the same and they are just controlling them instead of having the ECU control them.

I have heard fronm several good friends that the TC works quite well. The guy behind Bazzaz (Ammar) worked for Yoshimura in their R&D department and more importantly, the race portion. For the longest time, people said Suzuki was using a TC device but could be proved. That means they used existing sensors and that is what the Bazzaz device is doing. The 10R has TC as well and they are looking for the same methods as this unit. It looks at throttle position and then increases in RPM that would not be because of the throttle.

[Ol' Gravy Leg]

Originally Posted by lanbrown

It looks at throttle position and then increases in RPM that would not be because of the throttle.

that how i thought to do it. clever idea, if it works well.

cheers.

[Ol' Gravy Leg]

after review, i discovered that the PC/WBC has absolutely no self-tuning feature. in fact, the wideband commander can't even talk to the PC. the WBC is an A/F ratio monitor only.

the bazazz is not a true self tune either, as it is not a closed loop feedback system. it require review of each and every change.

the motty seems the most versitile, but there's not enough info on their site.

[brads955]

Originally Posted by slickwill

Yep, that's basically what it comes down to and I would guess that Bazzaz comes up with an ignition module before DynoJet comes up with TC. I could be wrong though.

Originally Posted by lanbrown

I agree and I have a feeling that Bazzaz will go one further and provide it all in a single box; where DJ will require three boxes. I don't know about you, but space is at a premium these days.

Dynojet already has the hardware to do the TC. Bazzaz will need to add hardware to do the ignition control. And they both lack the firmware for these features. So in that regard, Dynojet is closer.

Bazzaz as a company is smaller and can react quicker. But basically it boils down to whether or not Dynojet wants to build TC, or Bazzaz wants to build an ignition control, and when they decide to do this.

I told Ammar that the 08 1000RR needs the ignition, so time will tell what he decides to do with that info.

Originally Posted by lanbrown

The wiring is usually all that changes. Injectors all work the same and they are just controlling them instead of having the ECU control them.

You also need to make sure that when you intercept those injector and coil signals, the stock ECU doesn't throw an error code. The method to do that may vary from model to model of bike. But many of them are very similar

Originally Posted by lanbrown

I have heard fronm several good friends that the TC works quite well.

I know some guys that have raced with it so far with great results. I have been riding with the TC on for a bit now, but I haven't raced it. I did learn that you will probably want to turn it off in 1st gear. Otherwise it has a fairly aggressive cut as it shuts off the spark for a bit.

[brads955]

Originally Posted by Ol' Gravy Leg

after review, i discovered that the PC/WBC has absolutely no self-tuning feature. in fact, the wideband commander can't even talk to the PC. the WBC is an A/F ratio monitor only.

the bazazz is not a true self tune either, as it is not a closed loop feedback system. it require review of each and every change.

the motty seems the most versitile, but there's not enough info on their site.

The reason I asked about Motty riding results is this:

The factory ECUs have some maps that will adjust the fuel delivery and AFR based on a whole slew of calculations, for warm up, etc.

The Motty is going to have to try to use just a few of these inputs, along with the measured AFR, to create an adjustment table. But each cell in that table is going to bounce around because of all the variations in the stock fuel map, due to its many more sensors.

It sounds like it would be very difficult to get a good tune.

But on the plus side, being able to set different target AFR for different load ranges is a good feature in it.

The connector and install is going to be a major deal breaker for a lot of people. I wouldn't install it for someone.

[Ol' Gravy Leg]

i see what you're saying. i'd probably just have the unit perform the self tune one it reached operating temp.

i'd install it for me, but you're right, not for someone else.

[squeeze]

Something I thought I'd throw out there. PC also has the multifunction hub which allows running of 2 maps and switching between them, either gear dependand or speed dependant tuning(depending on bike), triggering of 2 electrical devices (like nitrous or water injection) based on speed, gear, manifold pressure, throttle position, etc. And a pressure sensor which will allow you to add more fuel under boost pressures, and can be set to retard timing (with the ignition module) as well.

I think bazazz may have the dual map thing.

[lanbrown]

Originally Posted by Ol' Gravy Leg

i see what you're saying. i'd probably just have the unit perform the self tune one it reached operating temp.

i'd install it for me, but you're right, not for someone else.

By the time you could install the Motty, you could just go with the HRC unit or do it right and go the Motec route.

[brads955]

Originally Posted by squeeze

Something I thought I'd throw out there. PC also has the multifunction hub which allows running of 2 maps and switching between them, either gear dependand or speed dependant tuning(depending on bike), triggering of 2 electrical devices (like nitrous or water injection) based on speed, gear, manifold pressure, throttle position, etc. And a pressure sensor which will allow you to add more fuel under boost pressures, and can be set to retard timing (with the ignition module) as well.

I think bazazz may have the dual map thing.

The Bazzaz setup also has the gear based map adjustment for the fuel map, as well as for the TC and quick shift.The gear based fuel map adjustment is built into the base unit

[D.Nac]

Originally Posted by 929Fregm

So is the Bazzaz unit.

The bazazz is not a true self tuning controller. The Motty constantly tuens it self. The bazazz unit takes data and you later down load the data for the recommended tuning changes that you then apply with your laptop. The Motty unit has a target air fuel ratio map that you fill in with the target air fuel mixture for a given RPM etc. The unit then adjusts injector pulses to achieve the target mixture. The nice thing is if you change something like the exhaust or air cleaner or anything else it retunes automatially.

You can read more from a few users of this unit here...

Motty AFR installation : Suzuki GSX-R Motorcycle Forums: Gixxer.com

You can find many other threads there regarding fuel computers.

[929Fregm]

Ok.

Do any of you actually own one or are you just giving your opinion??
I've had the power commander and know how good it is, plug and play, great. I was asking if anyone who rides street has one and would like an unbiased opinion of how well or not it works for you. I don't care if it has a lot of bells and whistles that I will never use on the street.
So, back to the question........

[lanbrown]

I know several people that have them and like them. Until they release one with ignition timing control, it won't do my '08 RR a bit of good. The PCIII wins in that respect. Keep in mind that the PCIII supports almost all motorcycles where the Bazzaz unit only supports a few must recent models.

[brads955]

Originally Posted by 929Fregm

Ok.

Do any of you actually own one or are you just giving your opinion??
I've had the power commander and know how good it is, plug and play, great. I was asking if anyone who rides street has one and would like an unbiased opinion of how well or not it works for you. I don't care if it has a lot of bells and whistles that I will never use on the street.
So, back to the question........

Don't throw a fit, your question was being addressed. I stated in my post that I had one.

Are you asking if you should switch from a PC to the Bazzaz? Or is this a new install?

If you don't care about the extra bells and whistles, base model vs. base model, then the main thing to concern yourself with is how much adjustment you need. The PC can't add or subtract as much fuel as the Bazzaz. But if you haven't hit that range limit, then the other difference would be the number of maps from Dynojet. They have a very large number of canned maps that will work pretty good for you.

I wouldn't change one for the other, just on base features(ignoring all bells and whistles). But if you are buying new, I guess it would all depend on how much mapping you are comfortable with doing yourself.

Overall, they are both doing the same thing(adjusting injector signal by a table value that is based on TPS and RPM). So what matters after that, is how well YOU map it.

[lanbrown]

Originally Posted by brads955

Don't throw a fit, your question was being addressed. I stated in my post that I had one.

Are you asking if you should switch from a PC to the Bazzaz? Or is this a new install?

If you don't care about the extra bells and whistles, base model vs. base model, then the main thing to concern yourself with is how much adjustment you need. The PC can't add or subtract as much fuel as the Bazzaz. But if you haven't hit that range limit, then the other difference would be the number of maps from Dynojet. They have a very large number of canned maps that will work pretty good for you.

I wouldn't change one for the other, just on base features(ignoring all bells and whistles). But if you are buying new, I guess it would all depend on how much mapping you are comfortable with doing yourself.

Overall, they are both doing the same thing(adjusting injector signal by a table value that is based on TPS and RPM). So what matters after that, is how well YOU map it.

I would never use one of the maps the DJ has. Too many variables and every engine is different. If you are going to spend the money, get a custom map or a map from someone that has the same setup that is close by.

I agree, I wouldn't replace one with the other. For the money, not much difference.

You can have someone map the Bazzaz just like you do for the PC. Sure they don't have the tuning link that DJ has, but a good tuner doesn't need it. An average tuner does need it though. That is what makes one better than the other. One understands what they are doing, the other is just letting a program do the work for them. This is the same reason why don't take a twin to someone that has only done inline fours.

[squeeze]

If you don't care about the extra bells and whistles, base model vs. base model, then the main thing to concern yourself with is how much adjustment you need. The PC can't add or subtract as much fuel as the Bazzaz. But if you haven't hit