[fireblake]

hi everyone,
i am new to this forum and have read through all the relevant posts but i dont seem to get a clear answer as everyone gives different advice. its the old question again im afraid, what 17" front wheel will fit my bike, im looking for something that will go straight in with the oem discs etc, some say vfr800 or the rvf400 with no mods, others say mods to spacers and discs needs to be done. So could someone in the know please let me know, thanks in advance Blake.

[bladeracer]

I believe the F3 wheel is the usual swap?
I _think_ you need F3 spacers with the wheel.

[fireblake]

thanks bladeracer, is this the wheel for a 94/97 blade or the 98/99 rrw/x bike as this is what im after. i know the two are different

[bladeracer]

I don't know as I'm not that familiar with those bikes.
I just recalled looking at it for somebody else some time ago but I think his was the late 893 Blade.
My brother has an '02 VFR800 so I could get some measurements off him.
I do know a guy with a VFR400 (I don't know what model it is) so could maybe get measurements off that too.
The 919 fiche shows the same part number for the centre bearing spacer as the F3 so it should definately fit the 919 axle. If you're into appearance the F3 has six spokes and the F4 has three.
I assume you want to run the 310mm 919 discs rather than the 296mm F3/4 ones?
Looking at the EBC cattledog...
The 919 blade has 4mm more disc offset than the 893's and the F3/4 but I don't know if that's because the wheel hub is narrower or not. It has a 62mm centre and 6x6mm bolts on a 78mm circle.
The F4 (not F4i) is a 296mm disc on the same bolt pattern but the disc has a 62.2mm centre so the 919 disc _may_ not quite fit over the hub but a few minutes with a half-round file would fix the disc so it'd fit the F4 wheel. Or you could mount the wheel on an axle and spin it while resting a file (safe edge against the wheel of course) on the hub centres to bring them down 0.2mm.
I don't know if the width of the wheel hubs are the same but it'd only be a matter of finding an F4 at a shop somewhere and measuring it with a vernier.
I just noticed the F3 wheel has the same bolt pattern as the RC45 which has the same offset as the 919 with 310mm discs. So a neat fit should be an F3 wheel with RC45 discs assuming the F3 hub is the same width as the 919.
You need to check the width of the 919, F3 and F4 hubs and the overall width of the 919 wheel across the discs. You need a new wheel/disc combo that places the discs in the same position in the calipers to save you having to space the calipers on the fork mounts although that's not a big job either.

[fireblake]

thank you for your input bladeracer very helpful, for now i have fitted a cbr400 three spoke wheel with 2mm extra wide spacers each side and have re drilled the 919 discs to fit with thin spacers made up to take up the void left by bigger disc centers, this seams to fit ok although i have not ridden yet!!! i am looking for a similar front wheel but lighter as this wheel seems to be quite heavy, i have a PVM three spoke back wheel fitted to a RC30 swing arm which is very light, so need to go lighter on the front i think!!!

[bladeracer]

Is the PVM a 6" magnesium?
You don't seem to mind putting a bit of effort into it so maybe look at a wheel off one of the latest 600's. They should be the lightest.
Up to '06 I found the 1000RR had the lightest OEM wheels followed very closely by the GSXR1000. I didn't check most of the 600's and some of the weights were provided by people online or magazine tests rather than weighed myself so they might not have been accurate.
I haven't found any bikes that came with OEM magnesium wheels or calipers but I'm still looking. Maybe some of the TZ or RS 250's ran them?

[fireblake]

i dont know to honest its either that or cast alloy, it has hollow spokes and is 6" wide, i am now looking at a cbr 600fx/y front wheel for a 3 spoke front wheel replacement, you wouldnt have any info on the disc mountings for this???? i think ideally a front wheel from an evo blade would be best but where to get one from is anybodys guess.

[bladeracer]

What is an evo blade?

I already gave you the info about the F4 wheel:
"The F4 (not F4i) is a 296mm disc on the same bolt pattern but the disc has a 62.2mm centre so the 919 disc _may_ not quite fit over the hub but a few minutes with a half-round file would fix the disc so it'd fit the F4 wheel. Or you could mount the wheel on an axle and spin it while resting a file (safe edge against the wheel of course) on the hub centres to bring them down 0.2mm. I don't know if the width of the wheel hubs are the same but it'd only be a matter of finding an F4 at a shop somewhere and measuring it with a vernier."

[fireblake]

thanks for that, all the hubs i have measured so far have all been the same at 100mm (cbr400,93/cbr900,92,95,97,99).
The evo blade was a limited edition bike made in 99 based on the rrw/x, they had magnesium 17" 3 spoke wheels, gold upside down front forks and a single sided swing arm at the rear, digital dash and 160bhp on tap!! the only link i could find was this: Honda CBR900 motorcycle swingarm suspensions by Ram.

[bladeracer]

Never heard of it.
Who made them and how many were made?
Can't imagine why they'd beef the engine up to 160hp and then throw on all the weight of a single-sided swingarm.
Was it a Blackbird engine?

[fireblake]

no it was a tuned 900 engine with ram air and fuel injection, the swing arm was specially developed for this bike so i would think it was made lighter than normal, everything on this bike was lighter and uprated, brakes, suspension,wheels,bodywork and engine, i think only a couple of hundred were made but not sure, i do know they each had there own homologation no.s and a special edition badge fitted with this on. They were said to be the fastest accelerating bikes around at the time topping out at over 180mph with the handling to match.

[bladeracer]

I thought I saw a google link saying they were 1100cc's though?

[fireblake]

Honda CBR900 motorcycle swingarm suspensions by Ram.
did you try this link? when there if you click on swing arm link there is more info on it. i will try to find more.

[fireblake]

Personal album of evoblade
heres some more pics but i cant find any specs for this bike, Strange but there doesnt seem to be much on the net about this bike.

[bladeracer]

I've just been through a discussion with a guy selling a magnesium single-sider and (despite being 50mm shorter) even that doesn't work out any lighter than the stock swingarm on my 929 once you add the weight of the hub and single-sided wheel as well.

CBR Firebladers

Honda-Fireblades.co.uk - Fireblade History.

[fireblake]

well i guess it must just be for looks or quicker to change the tyre/wheel in the pitlane who knows, for me i just like the look, and a few extra kg on the swing arm wont make that much difference surely to the bike, i thought the lighter wheels would surly make more difference, also wouldnt the single sider be more ridged???

[TattooedGQ]

I've been searching for the answer to this question since i got my 99 blade......I really could care less about how many spokes the rim has, i just want a direct bolt on.

I'd love to know why the hell they put a 16 up front.

[bladeracer]

I doubt there's any significant difference in time changing a wheel with conventional versus single-sided swingarms.
The swingarm is unsprung weight so it makes a big difference to the suspension performance. Magnesium wheels may well pull the weight down to on-par with a conventional swingarm but even a mag single-sided wheel is still heavier than a conventional mag wheel. I can't help thinking how much more impressive it could've been with a conventional swingarm.
Single-siders _can_ be more rigid (though I doubt they are) by being even heavier I guess.
I'd love to know the claimed dry weight if you ever manage to discover it :-)

[cbrsmurf]

Originally Posted by bladeracer

I doubt there's any significant difference in time changing a wheel with conventional versus single-sided swingarms.
The swingarm is unsprung weight so it makes a big difference to the suspension performance. Magnesium wheels may well pull the weight down to on-par with a conventional swingarm but even a mag single-sided wheel is still heavier than a conventional mag wheel. I can't help thinking how much more impressive it could've been with a conventional swingarm.
Single-siders _can_ be more rigid (though I doubt they are) by being even heavier I guess.
I'd love to know the claimed dry weight if you ever manage to discover it :-)

the hub on a single sider does not rotate while a conventional wheel's hub rotates ... therefore less rotating mass on a sss wheel. Rigidity used to be all the rage, but now m/c engineers are adding more flex to bike chassis so we may see a return to sss -- it seems to be working for Ducati in wsbk. Also, wheel changes are much faster on a sssa since the caliper, rotor, sprocket, etc all stay put... just like putting a car wheel on.

I don't think putting a sss on a 900rr or on any bike that doesn't come stock with it is an advantage, but it sure looks tits!

[bladeracer]

Originally Posted by cbrsmurf

the hub on a single sider does not rotate while a conventional wheel's hub rotates ... therefore less rotating mass on a sss wheel. Also, wheel changes are much faster on a sssa since the caliper, rotor, sprocket, etc all stay put... just like putting a car wheel on.

I don't think putting a sss on a 900rr or on any bike that doesn't come stock with it is an advantage, but it sure looks tits!

The hub may not rotate but it's still weight and being the hub makes it have a very small effect on rotational inertia if it did rotate. Since the actual SS wheel is heavier than conventional wheels it still has more rotational inertia anyway. The number of pitstops for wheel changes in motorcycle racing is close to zero so nobody is going to compromise the actual on-track performance just to save two seconds that one time they get a puncture...
As for the look...yuck :-)

[cbrsmurf]

Originally Posted by bladeracer

The hub may not rotate but it's still weight and being the hub makes it have a very small effect on rotational inertia if it did rotate. Since the actual SS wheel is heavier than conventional wheels it still has more rotational inertia anyway. The number of pitstops for wheel changes in motorcycle racing is close to zero so nobody is going to compromise the actual on-track performance just to save two seconds that one time they get a puncture...
As for the look...yuck :-)

haha to each his own. I think you are wrong on the sss wheels weight more than that of conventional wheels. Actually, it's the opposite -- the 1098/848 rear wheel is almost 10 pounds less than conventional wheels, not just because they're Marchi's (though I'm sure it has a little to do with it).

For regular/sprint racing it isn't important for quick wheel changes, but it's nice for endurance racing, which is actually pretty popular in europe, club racing in the US, and the suzuka 8 hours.

[bladeracer]

I have asked several people to weight their SS wheels and always found them significantly heavier than my conventionals.
Can you tell me the weight of the 1098 wheel?

[bladeracer]

For reference:
929 rear wheel is 6033gms with the bearings, spacer and valve.
Complete with disc, sprocket carrier, cushdrive and 42T sprocket is 9073gms.
'06 1000RR wheel is 5706gms and 8776gms.
My Marchesini mag wheel is 5419gms complete with 47T JT 520 sprocket and aluminium disc.
For completeness a Pirelli Corsa 190/50 tyre is another 6035gms.

[cbrsmurf]

according to June 07 Road Racing World Magazine

"we weighed all of the bikes' wheels with our test tires mounted but without spacers, axles or sprockets and including cush drivers and rotors, where applicable"

they used michelin pilot power race DOTs btw

you better bake me some cookies for typing this down lol:
Duc 1098S 23lb F(ront) 21 R(ear)
MV F4 23 F, 21 R
K zx10r 25 F, 27 R
GSXR1K 24 F, 28 R
CBR1K 25 F, 28 R
R1 26 F, 27 R

[bladeracer]

No cookies sorry but thanks for taking the time. I had to add my figures up from various spreadsheets :-)
If somebody can show me that I can save a few kg's by going to a SS swingarm I'd do it as I'm trying to achieve MotoGP-weight.
I take it the two SS'ers don't include the disc rotor, cush drive or sprocket carrier? From my figures above you can see those weigh around 3kg (7lb) thus placing the wheels on par with if not heavier than the Jap conventionals.
Any chance somebody has weights of those other parts required to actually make the wheel work (sprocket carrier, sprocket, disc and hub) on the SS arms? The 1098 and F4 are aluminium wheels as well?
It's interesting that the R1 and ZX10 are one pound lighter as that's not what I found in '06.

[bladeracer]

Some recent weights I've managed to chase up myself:
'95 Cagiva conventional 5.5x17 is 16lbs (7.2kg) for the wheel with bearings only.
'05 Ducati 800SS 5.5x17 is 7.5kg without disc, disc bolts or sprocket.
Current Carrozzeria aluminium '04 1000RR is 6225gms with the sprocket carrier, cushdrive and sprocket bolts.

[fireblake]

thank you to everyone for your input and help, i have both the single sided swing arm/wheel etc and the standard one so i will weigh both as complete units (swingarm/brakes/spacers/wheel/etc etc) and post the results as soon as i get time to do this,
for now i am trying to find an f4 front wheel for this bike if anyone can help? i have also been looking at the cbr blackbird front wheels as an alternative, does anyone have the disc fitting sizes for these wheels, i believe there are two different types fitted to these bikes the carbed and the injection models, can anyone help?