[Phadreus]

Faster and Faster: Honda: V4 revival in 2008-2009!

They must be somewhat serious as they have submitted drawings for a new frame pattent and the engine architecture appears to be a V4. They referred to the bike as a "VFR1000".

MCN 2008 Honda VFR revealed in new motorcycle patent

They make mention of the V5 again, so maybe Honda isn't ditching the idea just yet. Hmmm...

[Maholli]

http://www2.solomoto.es/fotos/22/Honda_1.jpg

[ChrisR1982Edin]

Stupid question.. whats with this V4 engine....

I understand V-Twins, thats 2 cylinders, then theres Triples, like the triumph speed triple, and theres inline 4s like Honda Fireblade... but whats a V4? Like a VTwin but two of them inside a single engine? So essentially getting the power of a V-Twin but times 2?

[lanbrown]

Originally Posted by ChrisR1982Edin

Stupid question.. whats with this V4 engine....

I understand V-Twins, thats 2 cylinders, then theres Triples, like the triumph speed triple, and theres inline 4s like Honda Fireblade... but whats a V4? Like a VTwin but two of them inside a single engine? So essentially getting the power of a V-Twin but times 2?

Do a search for the RC45.

[slickwill]

Originally Posted by lanbrown

Do a search for the RC45.

Or the RC30, NC30, VFR400, VFR750, VFR800, RVF400, RC212V (current honda gp bike), Desmosedici (ducati gp bike, current world champion). There are a lot more. The V4 has proven itself over and over again. Honda first used it in a race bike in '82 or '83. It provides a great combination of power and torque while still being narrow. Think of it as cutting a V-8 in half and only leaving half of the V.

[Vlad2k3]

That is cool it is showing that they want the engine to be a load bearing unit.

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload...s/2008vfr2.jpg
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload...s/2008vfr3.jpg

you can tell by the two frame parts that bolt to the engine instead of being casted or welded together.

I have seen one other bike (that quickly comes to mind) that kind of is similar but way better, this bike was the Britten V1000. If I recall properly, that bike was completely frame less and the engine took most of the loads.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...tten_V1000.jpg

But I think that Hellcat's Wraith does this as well, and so will their next generation of motorcycle.

[-Z-]

Oh goody, if they really make one, then I'll finally have a reason to buy a new bike! I've got inline-4's, V-twins, and a V4 (99 Interceptor)....so there's no reason to buy another bike really....but a new V4 sportbike? Must have!!!

As for the beauty behind a V4 engine, it's because even though they don't produce as much peak power at really high revs as an inline four, they have way more torque and what power they do have comes on a lot earlier in the power band, with a much more linear delivery. Kinda like a combination of a V-twin and an inline-4. Best of both worlds.

[Maholli]

Originally Posted by -Z-

a new V4 sportbike? Must have!!!

As for the beauty behind a V4 engine, it's because even though they don't produce as much peak power at really high revs as an inline four, they have way more torque and what power they do have comes on a lot earlier in the power band, with a much more linear delivery. Kinda like a combination of a V-twin and an inline-4. Best of both worlds.

on that...

[x[corwyn]]

I would be pretty tempted to get a new Honda if this came out. The last RC was a major dissapointment to me. It was a cool bike, but it was slower than a 600, heavy as a GT bike, and about as comfortable as race trim bike. Sounded cool though.

A V4 sportbike though? With a SSS, good suspension setup, and roots from MotoGP? My dreams of owning an RC30 or RC45 may not come to be, but this will be a more than satisfactory substitute if done right...

I think though, like the last RC series, it will be built in conjunction with the fireblade, not replace it. Then again, I have been wrong before though.

[babisgr]

I seriously doubt honda would be getting in tha trouble redisigning and marketing the new fireblade only to have next year another bike replacing it....It doesnt sound wright.
I also think the V4 1000cc motors would be getting about 15-160 hp....after all they are onlu liter 4cylinder motors...The difference would be the power band wich will be in lower revs.Dont compare motors build for gp with road editions..in gp 4cylinder inline does more than 210hp.

[Bobcat Sig]

How do we know that this isn't related to the new VFR, which is rumored to go up to 1000cc's? It would seem a bit counterintuitive for Honda to have the CBR/Fireblade at 1000cc's and then have a similar bike with a different engine configuration.

[slickwill]

Yeah, I think it is two different bikes with different goals in mind. The new VFR will not be as "edgy" as the CBR.

I also think the V4 1000cc motors would be getting about 15-160 hp....after all they are onlu liter 4cylinder motors...The difference would be the power band wich will be in lower revs.Dont compare motors build for gp with road editions..in gp 4cylinder inline does more than 210hp.

The desire for a V4 isn't about the power but the power delivery. They provide more torque and a more broad power curve. The main advantage though is the fact that they are much more narrow allowing a different overall package. Notice I didn't necessarily say "better" overall package, just "different" and one that I would be interested in. I think there is a reason that the majority of moto gp bikes are running a V4. It provides some advantages. Inline 4's produce good power, the overall public perception is good, and they are cheaper to make so they will continue to be the "bread and butter" so to speak. I however would be willing to pay the extra money for a race oriented V4.

[house]

Originally Posted by slickwill

Yeah, I think it is two different bikes with different goals in mind. The new VFR will not be as "edgy" as the CBR.



The desire for a V4 isn't about the power but the power delivery. They provide more torque and a more broad power curve. The main advantage though is the fact that they are much more narrow allowing a different overall package. Notice I didn't necessarily say "better" overall package, just "different" and one that I would be interested in. I think there is a reason that the majority of moto gp bikes are running a V4. It provides some advantages. Inline 4's produce good power, the overall public perception is good, and they are cheaper to make so they will continue to be the "bread and butter" so to speak. I however would be willing to pay the extra money for a race oriented V4.

I have a VFR800 and would LOVE to see them put out a stronger version. I really like my VFR, but ride my CBR on the days I really want to have "fun." I do love the sound of the V4, though... and it rides great... and is very comfy.

Oh, yeah... Hi from a n00b (at fireblades.org.)

[slickwill]

Oh, yeah... Hi from a n00b (at fireblades.org.)

Noticed you're in Canton. I spent some time living in Powder Springs, Gainesville, and Alpharetta.

[house]

Originally Posted by slickwill

Noticed you're in Canton. I spent some time living in Powder Springs, Gainesville, and Alpharetta.

Ahhh... so you've probably ridden some of the awesome N. GA mountain roads!! It is cool to have so many twisties so close

[ldavis]

f'n sweet.. god it looks so much better than the 08 1krr

[Supperconductor]

I'd be all over a new V4, esp without the vtech. Would be fun on track days and might even be comfortable enough to coax my GF to getting on it for a ride. She tried the rear seat on my 954 and won't ever ride it - I can't say I blame her.

[marbs]

from the info and pics at this stage, im liking it!

gotta luv the swingarm

[socalninja]

Looks a little too much like a Suzuki in my opinion, maybe it's the paintjob.. love the single sided swingarm though.

[Gothy]

OMG
QUOTE:
Solomoto even say that the Honda CBR1000RR Fireblade may give way to an all-new RVF1000 by 2009. Instead of the Fireblade’s inline-four, the RVF1000 will use a 200bhp, 1000cc V4 and styling would mirror Honda’s MotoGP bikes. With Aprilia also working on their own 1,000cc V-four engine, which they claim will make more than 210 horsepower in race trim, maybe the V4 config is getting all set to make a big comeback. Should be worth waiting for!


wow, So the rumor's from honda at the moment.

Honda Evo 6: 6 cylinder bike, going to be made in the USA, probably to combat the Suzuki stratsphere 6 cylinder bike.

2008 Blade the last version, I doubt it, I hope they don't stop making the blade, people will still want a 1000cc Inline 4. They have a different appeal too, and provide a different power delievery.
Remember when they made the VFR400 they kept making the CBR400RR.

The appeal of a RVF1000 / VFR1000 V4 would be cool.
Especially as a sports bike.

Replacement RC-51, a 1200cc Vtwin for world superbikes.
See post labled SP3 in the RC-51 forum.

The V5 RC211V, will they release it?
Ducatii have made the desmodecii a road bike now. For the general public (if you have enough cash)

[-Z-]

Maybe I'm weird, but I just don't see why they aren't already making all these CBR's as V4s....I mean, let's take a look at the bikes that are running in MotoGP. Both Honda and Suzuki are running V configuration engines in their bikes. And for quite some time now. Long enough that I'm over here saying, "WHAT'S THE HOLD UP!!!???"

I love that damn V4 powerplant in my 99 Interceptor. If my 954 had a V4 in it, I wouldn't even need to have two bikes.

That being said, listen up Honda. I love your bikes, but until you make a V4 sportbike I'm not buying another bike from you!

Argh. Okay, so maybe it's an idle threat, but still....

[65hemi]

I rode a brand new VFR a few days ago. It handled very nicely. It's a great bike, but for me, a little short on power. For its power level, it needs to be at least 50 pounds lighter. If a 1000 cc version had been available, I would have been very interested.

[ptlcb1]

For the 25th anniversary of the Interceptor, I was disappointed that Honda wrapped its current 800cc sport tourer in the red, white and blue colors that originally came out when they first introduced the Interceptor back in the early 80's. The original Interceptor was a sportbike that dominated race tracks back in its day! It was not a sport tourer. I thought for its 25th year, they would go back to its roots and produce a very capable V-4 sportbike. Looks like that maybe a few years away now. Fingers crossed! If it looks anything like the pics above, they are not going to have any problems selling them.

[Fassst51]

Well, lets say for a moment they make this bike with sport in mind, and less on the tour.. Honda VTwins are notoriously heavy in comparison to the inlines (due to addition casting for durability). Would this V-4 be even heavier as well? Thanks..

[Carolina_954]

Originally Posted by Vlad2k3

That is cool it is showing that they want the engine to be a load bearing unit.

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload...s/2008vfr2.jpg
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload...s/2008vfr3.jpg

you can tell by the two frame parts that bolt to the engine instead of being casted or welded together.

I have seen one other bike (that quickly comes to mind) that kind of is similar but way better, this bike was the Britten V1000. If I recall properly, that bike was completely frame less and the engine took most of the loads.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...tten_V1000.jpg

But I think that Hellcat's Wraith does this as well, and so will their next generation of motorcycle.

The 929 and 954 engines are load bearing members also... makes it hell if you need to pull the motor, and doesn't save that much weight.

[65hemi]

It wouldn't necessarily have to be. However, the motorcycle manufacturers up to this point, have not put any real effort toward holding weight down except in the pure sport bike categories. There is no excuse for the Interceptor being 100 pounds heavier than the CBR 1000, and being significantly down on power to boot.

All of the cruisers and touring bikes are real pigs. The V-twins are also heavy because of the size of the bikes and the weight of the frames and other components. Except for the Italians, there seems to be an unwritten law stating that V-twins (and V-fours) have to be slow and heavy. I don't understand it. I love the look of a V-twin cruiser, but I can't get excited about bikes with mediocre to poor performance.

Originally Posted by Fassst51

Well, lets say for a moment they make this bike with sport in mind, and less on the tour.. Honda VTwins are notoriously heavy in comparison to the inlines (due to addition casting for durability). Would this V-4 be even heavier as well? Thanks..

[paso100]

Originally Posted by 65hemi

It wouldn't necessarily have to be. However, the motorcycle manufacturers up to this point, have not put any real effort toward holding weight down except in the pure sport bike categories. There is no excuse for the Interceptor being 100 pounds heavier than the CBR 1000, and being significantly down on power to boot.

All of the cruisers and touring bikes are real pigs. The V-twins are also heavy because of the size of the bikes and the weight of the frames and other components. Except for the Italians, there seems to be an unwritten law stating that V-twins (and V-fours) have to be slow and heavy. I don't understand it. I love the look of a V-twin cruiser, but I can't get excited about bikes with mediocre to poor performance.

The line drawing reminds me a lot of my 98 VFR 800. I think it makes good sense when you look at it from Honda's marketing perspective. The Interceptor has a large, loyal following that's probably feeling a little behind the times at this point. A new 1000cc V4 would address the power shortcomings and make sport-touring fans feel good again about not having a "real" sport bike, lol. Just kidding. I really liked my 98 for what it was — a great sport tourer. I used to think of it as riding a 20' long 2X4: lightweight but stable. But my 954 feels like a 10' piece of titanium rod — lighter and even more stable. I also consider the 954 more comfortable to boot, best of both worlds.

Buying a new VFR might be a compromise you can feel good about. It's an excuse for not buying a hardcore sport-only machine (wife factor, getting older, maybe even feeling a bit intimidated by a 160 hp, 375 lb testosterone injector) but still having 90 percent of a sport bike's capability. A responsible sport bike for the more mature riders out there. At least I think that's Honda's marketing plan for this bike.

[Fassst51]

Originally Posted by 65hemi

The V-twins are also heavy because of the size of the bikes and the weight of the frames and other components. Except for the Italians, there seems to be an unwritten law stating that V-twins (and V-fours) have to be slow and heavy. I don't understand it. I love the look of a V-twin cruiser, but I can't get excited about bikes with mediocre to poor performance.

Hmmmm. With regard to the sport twins, I'd have to say the overall rigidity of the casting is thicker, adding to engine weight; it has to be able to withstand that thump. Take for example my former '98 VTR, 00 RC51 and a friends Duc 996. They were all 40lbs+ heavier then say a 929 or R1, and it wasn't the body, frame or accessories, it was all excess engine weight. Ducati has dropped considerable weight from their current twin though..
So, I guess my real question is, how much more would this hi-perf. V-4 weigh in comparison to a modern inline 4?

[Gothy]

well you only have to look at GP bikes, that use V4's which are light and durable. - they could use that technology and lightness in road bikes.
Yes i know they use lightweight expensive materials for the frames fairings wheels, but the engines would be lighter too.

You see the yamaha's, and kawasaki's racing I4's, but honda ducati, suzuki all race V4's
Ducati are right at the top, where as yamaha is only just behind with the I4's so that means since they all have the same engine capacity that the weight of the V4's can't be much more!
either that or the power and torque they make makes up for the weight.
It would be interesting to find out exactly how much power and torque they both make.

[-Z-]

Read a couple articles from two different magazines about a month ago, one here in the states, one in the UK, and both of them were saying the same thing. They were saying that MotoGP racers are caring less and less about peak power and torque and are demanding their bikes to be tuned to have a flatter torque curve. It's not peak power and torque that makes a great performance engine. It's usable power and torque that really makes a bike fast AND easy to ride fast, and it's a lot easier to use when the entire power delivery is a lot smoother.