[deez]

Let's see............ I took apart the RC, added new Master Cylinders (Brembo), new Wheels (Marchesinis), new plugs, oil, and coolant.

Spent hours on this, and putting it back together. I immediately fill the bike up with fuel and ride to work. On the way there, after shifting, I accelerate, the bike kind of pauses for a moment, then the power comes on. This happens in every gear. I immediately think that I left the baro sensor unplugged, or something else on the wiring harness around the upper and pull the bike apart only to find everything where it should be, damn!

Next I think that the map in the bike is jacked up so I reload the map. No success.

I then call in for backup and get a fellow RC'er to come by to see if he has any ideas. We pull the plugs, put another set in, same problem. Deal with the plugs is, that they are NGK's, not the Densos. I'm starting to think that DK's map that I'm using for the Satos was made with the Denso plugs and the combo of the NGK sparkplugs (IFR9H11s) and Dan's map is jacking something with the FI up but I ordered 4 plugs and got a deal on them so I had an extra 2 to try but it didn't work. We then check everything under the tank to see if a line is pinched, nope.

After all of that we pull the PC off and ride it. It's not doing what it was before but considering we're using the stock fuel map, it's really hard to tell. The bike has had the flapper removed as well as the pair, so it's not going to run smooth. It does run better, but my guess is that the added fuel from Dan's map in the midrange is making the condition more pronounced, and it's easier to tell. It seems like the problem exists with no PC, but it's much more difficult to tell. So I put the PC back on, get it connected, and load the 0 map. Same thing, the condition isn't rearing it's ugly head but very tough to tell if it is doing it or not. Then I reloaded Dan's map, and the problem is pronounced again Thinking I have a corrupt map file somehow, I grab a new one off of Rogue and get Dan to email me one as well. Both of the maps are the same and cause the same condition.

Would bad gas cause this issue? I'm having a local parts guy get me some Denso sparkplugs so I can try those, everything else seems OK. The powercommander has worked flawlessly up to this point so I don't think it is the PC, but Then I have 2 other issues to deal with as well, front rotors are dragging bad, but everything is lined up correctly. Midline on the caliper is right in the middle of the rotor. Brakes work awesome but are dragging. If I spin the front wheel hard, I might get 1 1/2 revolutions out of it whereas with the stock wheels I'd get 4-5. Whomever said modding was fun was a liar

[ND4SPD]

I think you may have the wrong type of top soil planted in the pot next to that flower

[deez]

Thanks, been working on this issue for hours and days, and your comment helps.

[BDA116]

The plugs really shouldn't be the cause as long as they are the same rating, but stranger things have happened.
Bad gas can very well do this, as could a clogged fuel filter or malfunctioning fuel pump.
I would suggest emptying the tank and putting in a gallon from a different station. If that works, fill 'er up. I'm assuming that the pump is in the tank on the '51, so if the new gas doesn't work, empty it again and check the pump - maybe even backflush your fuel filter to be sure it is clean also. then try it again.
It sounds like you have a pal with a '51 helping you out, so maybe you can even swap pumps just to be sure.

[Holeshot]

I know I don't live close but if there is some way I can help you out.. let me know. I've certainly had a few weird things happen that turned out to be plugs .. talk about real head-scratchers (worst being two bad plugs in a row from two different sets causing the bike to drop a cylinder above idle - cost me $150 at the local shop for them to tell me I had a bad plug - WTF but *another* new plug did the trick).

I won't even bore you guys with the cluster-f*** of problems I've had on water-cooled two-strokes with a wet plug....

[Nillotuc]

Sounds as if you have eliminated the variables as far as you PC however there is one more thing I can think of on it, and that is only if your RC buddies commander will work in yours if so that would completely rule out at least one variable in the equation so you can concentrate your fault isolation elsewhere. Just a thought you prolly already tried that though.

[abtech]

Booth: If your buddy is game, I would swap tanks as this will change the fuel, fuel pump and fuel filter all in one shot. Obviously if the problem goes away, then you have isolated it down to one or more of these three items.

Another thought, although probably not valid since you haven't messed with the airbox, is that there are 2 sensors that use the same connector on the RC. I'm not certain what they are called, but when I put in the type 2 airbox and rewired the stock harness, I inadvertently swapped these 2 sensors and had a similar problem. It took a while to find this problem, as I had relocated the location for the sensors and figured it was impossible to reach the "wrong" ones, but since I had them completely removed during the retrofit, I had put them back bass-ackwards.

[CanyonCarver]

Don't know about the FI issue, but the brake drag thing is familiar, as I had a similar problem.

Exact same symptoms you describe. The fix for me was to rebuild both calipers with new seals & pads, and scrub the front rotors with 600-grit paper and water (as suggested by Galfer). I figured out that what happened was the caliper pistons had pushed out a bit when off their mounts (changing front tire) and when pushed back in, brought some dirt/debris with them. Also, the stock pads had deposited quite a bit of material onto the rotors at a trackday. Removing this material helped quite a bit.

After the caliper rebuild and rotor scrub, the tire rotated like new again.

[deez]

Originally Posted by abtech

Booth: If your buddy is game, I would swap tanks as this will change the fuel, fuel pump and fuel filter all in one shot. Obviously if the problem goes away, then you have isolated it down to one or more of these three items.

Another thought, although probably not valid since you haven't messed with the airbox, is that there are 2 sensors that use the same connector on the RC. I'm not certain what they are called, but when I put in the type 2 airbox and rewired the stock harness, I inadvertently swapped these 2 sensors and had a similar problem. It took a while to find this problem, as I had relocated the location for the sensors and figured it was impossible to reach the "wrong" ones, but since I had them completely removed during the retrofit, I had put them back bass-ackwards.

I would think an unplugged sensor or one wired up wrong would give me some sort of light on the dash, a code, etc.

Today I ran the 0 map in the PC, and duplicated the problem, albeit very minor, compared to when I'm running Dan's map. Dan's map provides way more fuel so that is why the problem is so much more pronounced.

I also ran the bike today until it was near empty of fuel and put 2-3 gallons in from another station, and the problem still is there. The only thing that has changed on the bike is that I went from Stock Densos to the NGK equivalent. I'm thinking it's the plugs. I have a hard time believing that the PCIIIR just crapped out at the same time, like Rossi says "Is possible" but not likely. The only different now is the plugs that are in there. Tuesday I pick up some new Densos from the stealer and will try those. If the problem is still there, then I'll mail my PC back to Dynojet for testing. Then if that doesn't solve it, time to pull the tank and go that route.

[showmethebombs]

good gawd.

I was going to be a cock doctor, and tell you that the one sure fire way to fix this issue, is to buy the new R1. But, I know I would be pissed if someone did that to me. So, it sounds like your having a wicked good time-NOT. Did you gap the plugs? I am wondering if that might have something to do with it. Is it known if the NGK's burn hotter or cooler than the Denso's?

[G-Man]

Originally Posted by showmethebombs

Did you gap the plugs? I am wondering if that might have something to do with it.

\
You do not gap iridium tipped plugs.

[deez]

correctamundo It says to toss the plug if it is not properly gapped.

[showmethebombs]

did you check the gaps then? probably you did. Sorry, I am still learning on some things! I have not changed my plugs as of yet.

[deez]

Frank! zog posted a possible fix on Rogue. When we did the Brembo Clutch master cylinder, we hotwired the clutch switch to get rid of it. Zog says that this could cause the issue. Did you do this on your race RC-51? If so, how? I think we just spliced the two wires together.

Edit: Yep, sure enough he was right. On the '00/'01 you can splice/hotwire the clutch switch to defeat it, on the '02 and above, the ECU is different, so you can't. All that work over 1 ****ing wire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Sook]

Booth, to me, if a zero map runs sort of OK and dan's richer map is worse, it says the bike is rich to begin with and need to be leaner. Nearly ALL of the SP maps I've done here, we pull fuel out not add fuel. If you can. gut YOUR bikemapped. Quit messing with downloads. It's a waste of time.

[deez]

Originally Posted by The Sook

Booth, to me, if a zero map runs sort of OK and dan's richer map is worse, it says the bike is rich to begin with and need to be leaner. Nearly ALL of the SP maps I've done here, we pull fuel out not add fuel. If you can. gut YOUR bikemapped. Quit messing with downloads. It's a waste of time.

No offense sook, but you don't know Dan Kyle. I tried to best his map once, by getting a custom map made, it ran worse. The problem I was having has to deal with the clutch switch. On the SP2, you can't simply hotwire it like you can the SP1. The reason it was more noticeable compared to the 0 map, was because of the added fuel in the midrange. I rode the bike yesterday with the 0 map and noticed the problem, the problem wasn't with Dan's map, it was with the clutch switch. Dan's maps are so good, that I buy what exhausts he sells, because 99% of the time, his map is going to be better than what my local tuner could do. Ideally, I would like to have him custom map my bike, but he is 1000 miles away He didn't win AMA tuner of the year twice for nothing.

[The Sook]

Booth, I suggest you get a better tuner then. No WAY can a map done for another bike be as good as a map done for YOUR bike. Your local guy is a tool if he can't make it better. I DO know Dan Kyle, I've spoken to him many times, and he got the Arata deal set up for me over here. Dan didn't win tuner of the year by downloading other peoples maps either, coz he KNOWS it ain't gonna be at it's best. 2 RC51's with the same pipes tec, can have differences of 10-20% in some places in the map. so then tell me how the one map will work BEST on both bikes.
BUT, glad your prob is fixed. Have fun

[abtech]

Originally Posted by booth23

Frank! zog posted a possible fix on Rogue. When we did the Brembo Clutch master cylinder, we hotwired the clutch switch to get rid of it. Zog says that this could cause the issue. Did you do this on your race RC-51? If so, how? I think we just spliced the two wires together.

Edit: Yep, sure enough he was right. On the '00/'01 you can splice/hotwire the clutch switch to defeat it, on the '02 and above, the ECU is different, so you can't. All that work over 1 ****ing wire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I bypassed the switch with a splice w/o incident (mine's an 00'). I did find that even though the wiring diagram for the fuse box clearly shows that the circuits for the lights and indicators are not tied in with the ignition, I had to splice all of the fused lines to get the bike to run. Once it fired up, I didn't give it a lot more thought, but it does seem strange that you need to have all of the accessory circuits live to run the bike.

[figment]

glad you got it fixed booth. This thread was an interesting read. Its nice to see a problem resolved and the "history" of the resolution

[Holeshot]

Dang man.. that one would have had me stupped forever.. but then you do have to back down the 'what changed' checklist.. but.. glad someone else ran into it and figured it out before you went insane!

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by The Sook

Booth, I suggest you get a better tuner then.

Easier said than done in many places.

[matt232]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Easier said than done in many places.

True, could even be easier to become that better tuner yourself. I don't suppose there are any Uni courses? Apprenticeships?

[The Sook]

You got the $'s to move to Sydney and pay me to teach you? hahaha