Can't get my RC started...

Dissident · 04-25-2006, 1:03 PM

OK, here's the deal: I went riding up in the mountains (and in the snow), I hosed the bike off.. Started it up, and it ran for a minute, then stalled, and I haven't been able to start it since.

I thought it might be the battery, but I have the current battery on a tender and it's 12V+, but don't have any way to test the amps. BUT I've tried jumping the bike with my car and it still won't start, which, even with a dead battery, I would imagine there being more than enough amps. I had spark at the plugs, but they looked kinda crappy (although they were wet, which makes it look like gas is not the problem) so I went ahead and replaed them, and still no go. Maybe I should have tried to see if the new ones have spark, but I am thinking that's not the problem.

Fuel pump comes on, sounds like it's pressuriring.

I jumped the fault code connector, and it blinked 8, 9, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 (I think), but that doesn't make sense to me since I thought that jumping it just CLEARS the codes, and that it should spit codes out when the bike is ON without the connector being jumped.

and i cleaned the air filters.

SO, in summary, I got air, spark, and gas. Only thing that might be f'ed up is.. timing? I dunno. Maybe something int he ECU or something else got fried; but I am truly at a loss without more tools and/or knowledge. And without a truck, I got no way to get it to a shop. I've had it with this thing

sheepofblue · 04-25-2006, 1:14 PM

Only things I could think of is a sensor/switch shorted. The tip over sensor should stop the pump I believe. You might try shorting the kickstand sensor though.

Dissident · 04-25-2006, 1:17 PM

Hmm, don't think it's that. I guess I should have clarified that it cranks over just fine. The bank angle sensor does stop the pump (I tried it) and throws a error, so I know that's not it.

ANd, I also tried disconnecting the power commander and bypassing it, with the same results. cranks, no start.

sheepofblue · 04-25-2006, 1:27 PM

And for the obvious one the kill switch is correct?

Dissident · 04-25-2006, 1:40 PM

Yup; again, if that was it, fuel pump wouldn't prime.

proud_boricua · 04-25-2006, 2:27 PM

I know that this may sound out of the ordinary, but did you get water in the intake when you sprayed the bike down. I know you changed the filter but you didn't say when. Also, this happened to me once so don't laugh, one of my wires by my clutch were disconected, but I couldn't tell, so I ended up having a similar problem with starting my bike. Kind of dumb stuff but still, you never know.

southpark460 · 04-25-2006, 2:49 PM

Reading the codes won't clear them. Let me get my service manual and see what all those codes are...

Ok:

8 - TP sensor
9 - IAT sensor
12-15 = injectors
16 - ain't no such thing...

Check for loose grounds. If you have a Power Commander, disconnect it.

Dissident · 04-25-2006, 3:08 PM

Thanks; that jives with what I found (I might have counted 16 wrong

).

Tried bypassing the power commander; no go.

What is the exact procedure for reading the codes and clearing them? I thought to read them, you just turn the bike on, and to clearn them, you jump the wires on the green plug and then switch the bike on. But, turning on the bike bike does nothing for me, and jumping the wires produces the above codes...

southpark460 · 04-25-2006, 3:41 PM

Jump the wires to display the codes. To reset, remove the jumper. When the FI light starts blinking, jump it again. That should clear it.

Red Rider · 04-25-2006, 3:59 PM

Does disconnecting the battery clear the codes, too? Just wondering...

southpark460 · 04-25-2006, 4:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Rider

Does disconnecting the battery clear the codes, too? Just wondering...

Never tried it when I had a stored code!

gzinga · 05-01-2006, 11:36 AM

if the spark is crappy you may wana check the coil....and of course fuses!!

Dissident · 05-01-2006, 11:41 AM

ok, so was just about to post an update.

Spark is great with the new plugs, fuses are all fine, and i know now that it's a fuel problem.

(I know because I sprayed some of that engine starter in my airboxc and she fired right up!)

So, need to figure out where the fuel filter is (in the tank?), and figure out how to disconnect the gas line (it goes between the engine and the frame and I can't reach it

) and make sure they are all clean, and see if the fuel pump is working (sounds like it is, and now thaty I cleared the engine codes, I'm not getting any fault codes at all).

Anyone have any

southpark460 · 05-01-2006, 12:50 PM

Fuel filter is in the tank... Draining the tank is a pain, I think. Prop the tank up and remove the return hose (smaller one on left side) from the fuel pressure regulator. Fuel will start pouring out so have some rags and a container handy. When it's "empty", plug or clamp the line. Keep the rag handy as more fuel will come out when you remove the big banjo bolt attaching the main fuel line to the pump. Disconnect the breather hose and overflow hose, then remove the banjo bolt. There are two washers, one on top and one on bottom. Don't lose them! Then set the tank back down and nplug the fuel pump lead (3P black) and remove the pivot bolt. The tank should be free to be removed.

The pump is a real bitch. Remove the seven (I think) nuts that hold the pump on. Then the pump comes out. Sounds easy, but the pump is mosterous, and when you finally get it out you'll wonder how they got it in to begin with! I like to think it's like one of those ships in a bottle...

Fuel filter is right there for your inspection and/or replacement. Good luck!

southpark460 · 05-01-2006, 1:00 PM

But... Before you do all that, test the fuel flow:

Turn ignition off and disconnect the fuel cut relay connector (in subframe). jump the brown and black/white leads with a jumper (paper clip should work). Disconnect the fuel return hose and plug the fuel tank joint pipe so your tank doesn't empty all over you and the bike. let the return line empty out, then put the return line in an empty container that has measurements on it. We're looking for 6.4 oz, so a 12oz or so container should work. Turn on the ignition for 10 seconds (no guessing!) and then turn it off. Measure the fuel in the container. Honda specs say 190cm3 (or 6.4oz) per 10 seconds. Any less and you have problems with fuel delivery...

Dissident · 05-01-2006, 1:27 PM

Wow, thanks for the great info.... The other thing I started thinking about was perhaps I ended up getting some/too much water in the tank...?

southpark460 · 05-01-2006, 1:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dissident

Wow, thanks for the great info.... The other thing I started thinking about was perhaps I ended up getting some/too much water in the tank...?

Doubtful... I would think you'd get sputtering vs. not starting. Unless you had insane amounts of water in there. If you "pass" the fuel flow test, that'd definitely be something to look at...

southpark460 · 05-01-2006, 2:12 PM

One thing to think about is the original set of FI codes. Your fuel delivery may be fine, but all 4 injectors were throwing codes. Have you checked the injector harnesses and such?

Dissident · 05-01-2006, 3:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southpark460

One thing to think about is the original set of FI codes. Your fuel delivery may be fine, but all 4 injectors were throwing codes. Have you checked the injector harnesses and such?

You mean 2 injectors?

Yeah, I actually think the codes were from when y power commander ground was loose, which seems to make sense.

I'm going ot try and drain the tank and clean everything out tonight, since that's not a bad thing to do regardless of what the problem is. I'll try the fuel test, too

abtech · 05-01-2006, 3:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dissident

You mean 2 injectors?

Depends on the year . . .

southpark460 · 05-01-2006, 3:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dissident

You mean 2 injectors?

If you only have 2 injectors on your RC, that would explain your problems!

There's 2 per cylinder... Good luck with the tank!

Dissident · 05-02-2006, 5:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southpark460

But... Before you do all that, test the fuel flow:

Turn ignition off and disconnect the fuel cut relay connector (in subframe). jump the brown and black/white leads with a jumper (paper clip should work). Disconnect the fuel return hose and plug the fuel tank joint pipe so your tank doesn't empty all over you and the bike. let the return line empty out, then put the return line in an empty container that has measurements on it. We're looking for 6.4 oz, so a 12oz or so container should work. Turn on the ignition for 10 seconds (no guessing!) and then turn it off. Measure the fuel in the container. Honda specs say 190cm3 (or 6.4oz) per 10 seconds. Any less and you have problems with fuel delivery...

Ok, so stupid questions: which is the return line? AND, what are the hoses that look like drain hoses that are plugged at the bottom for?

HRC NICK 11 · 05-02-2006, 7:29 PM

Hoses at the bottom one is over fill one is vent tube.

The return line is the one that does not have banjo fitting but still goes near the throttal bodies.

HRC NICK 11 · 05-02-2006, 7:32 PM

I bet you have fouled plugs and a weak battery. I have seen it so many times it crazy. Maybe caused by the water to start with.

Change the plugs and jump it with a NON-RUNNING car or truck.

Dissident · 05-04-2006, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southpark460

But... Before you do all that, test the fuel flow:

Turn ignition off and disconnect the fuel cut relay connector (in subframe). jump the brown and black/white leads with a jumper (paper clip should work). Disconnect the fuel return hose and plug the fuel tank joint pipe so your tank doesn't empty all over you and the bike. let the return line empty out, then put the return line in an empty container that has measurements on it. We're looking for 6.4 oz, so a 12oz or so container should work. Turn on the ignition for 10 seconds (no guessing!) and then turn it off. Measure the fuel in the container. Honda specs say 190cm3 (or 6.4oz) per 10 seconds. Any less and you have problems with fuel delivery...

Well, I did all that, and I got less than 2 ounces! It was trickling out of the return line. So, yeah, I took the pump out, sorta. I tried to do it without removing the back of the tank, but no go.

So, I'll try taking the whole thing out so I can take the filter out easier, and might as well clean the tank while I'm at it. I'll post an update this weekend.

Dissident · 05-05-2006, 10:22 AM

Aha!

Drained the tank, and the stuff at the bottom was not pretty! Looks like I DID get some water in there, and sucked into the system. Finally got it fire up last night. Now, jsut have ot put it all back together, and see how it feels with clean air filters, new plugs, and good gas...