Running Rich

aussie-sp1 · 06-11-2007, 7:56 AM

Gday guys, i am in need of someones advice on how to sort out the problem with my 2000 vtrsp1 (RC51)

. The engine is running rich and constantly fouling up my plugs. Does anyone know how to make adjustments, is there a mixture screw or is this strictly a computer and mechanic fix.

kelleyj · 06-11-2007, 12:15 PM

do you have a power commander?

if so check and see what map is loaed an maybe try a different map

also. what plugs are you running?

nedro · 06-11-2007, 12:59 PM

Could be a dirty O2 sensor. Could have a bad fuel regulator (But I doubt it). Could be a bad warm-up regulator circuit. Could be alot of things.

ICESHANEICE · 06-11-2007, 4:09 PM

YO GET YOUR SELF A SERVIS MANUAL AND READ THE CARB SECTION BUT TO FIX UR PROBLEM YOUR GOING TO NEED SOME TOOLS LIKE A CARB SYNK, EGA (SMOG TESTER FOR CO TO RICH AND LEAN) YOU CANT JUST TURN YOUR AIF FULE SCRW'S IN AND OUT YOU MAKE IT A LOT MORE WORCE (BAD VARY BAD) IT YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE TEST EQITMENT TO DO IT RIGHT. IF YOU GOT A POWER COMANDER CHANGE MAPS THAT IS SUTIBAL FOR YOUR ALTUTUD THAT YOU RIDE IN SUCH A (4,000 FT) WILL EATHER CAUS UR BIKE TO RUN RICH OR LEAN. YOUR JETS COULD BE DIRTY BUT YOU CANT JUST TAKE THEM OUT AND CLEAN THEM. I SAY TAKE IT TO A SHOP AND GET IT DONE DONT DO IT YOUR SELF YOU COULD REAL MESS UP YOUR RC51 BUT ITS UP TO YOU GOOD LUCK

nedro · 06-11-2007, 4:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICESHANEICE

YO GET YOUR SELF A SERVIS MANUAL AND READ THE CARB SECTION BUT TO FIX UR PROBLEM YOUR GOING TO NEED SOME TOOLS LIKE A CARB SYNK, EGA (SMOG TESTER FOR CO TO RICH AND LEAN) YOU CANT JUST TURN YOUR AIF FULE SCRW'S IN AND OUT YOU MAKE IT A LOT MORE WORCE (BAD VARY BAD) IT YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE TEST EQITMENT TO DO IT RIGHT. IF YOU GOT A POWER COMANDER CHANGE MAPS THAT IS SUTIBAL FOR YOUR ALTUTUD THAT YOU RIDE IN SUCH A (4,000 FT) WILL EATHER CAUS UR BIKE TO RUN RICH OR LEAN. YOUR JETS COULD BE DIRTY BUT YOU CANT JUST TAKE THEM OUT AND CLEAN THEM. I SAY TAKE IT TO A SHOP AND GET IT DONE DONT DO IT YOUR SELF YOU COULD REAL MESS UP YOUR RC51 BUT ITS UP TO YOU GOOD LUCK

FIST OFF, IT'S ONLY ONE LITTLE BUTTON. IT HAS CAP LOCKS RIGHT ON IT. PUSH THE BUTTON ONE TIME and I promise it will be better real soon.
Secondly, if it had carbs, IT WOULDN'T HAVE A POWER COMMANDER ON IT.

kelleyj · 06-11-2007, 4:16 PM

his bike is not carbed....unless you know somthing i dont about the 00 ausi sp-1?

gt702 · 06-11-2007, 4:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICESHANEICE

YO GET YOUR SELF A SERVIS MANUAL AND READ ...

Uhm, get yourself a dictionary and an english course .... and turn off the caps locks, we can hear you.

There are several things that can cause the engine to run rich, like a sensor out of range. Check to make sure your engine temperature (ECT), air temperature (ACT/AIT), and pressure sensor (BAP/MAP) are all plugged in and functional. If it happened all of a sudden after a service stop, you likely don't have a sensor reconnected. The ACT and BAP sensors are on the on the airbox. The default for a failure of these sensors is to run rich, to prevent running lean.

You could also have a bad pressure regulator that is putting out too much pressure (not regulating). It is unlikely you have a leaky injector if all 4 are bad ... if just one, then you might suspect the injector.

If you have a PC, like kellyj mentions, you may want to pull it out of the system to see if you have the same issue. Maybe the map got corrupted.

You can also check at rc51.org and rc51.com. Lots of RC specific information at those sites. Good luck.

Red Rider · 06-11-2007, 4:35 PM

IT LOOKS LIKE THIS...

aussie-sp1 · 06-11-2007, 9:24 PM

Thanks for the useful replies, kelleyj, nedro,gt702. I dont have a power commander which i know i need to get when i can afford one. I did recently disconnect a sensor and was pretty sure that i put it back correctly, but i will double check that, thanks gt702. I am running NGK IRIDIUM plugs kelleyj, so i am sure its not a quality plug problem. I changed them 2 weeks ago when the problem started. The bike is also not idleing on its own, when i stop at traffic lights, it wants to die and shut down and i have to keep revving it to stay alive. Does that mean anything to anyone? Atleast to anyone who knows an RC51 doesnt have carbs. I am aware that i may have to take it to a mechanic eventually but a service costs a fortune and i would like to try and eliminate most of the easy possibilities if i can. Thanks guys. Anymore advice would be helpful.

kelleyj · 06-12-2007, 6:11 AM

have you had the FI light come on? if so, under the seat/in the trunk area, there is a small white 2-wire female connector, it is the service coade test plug, ( shows where and what it looks like in the service manual ) jump the two wires and turn the key on, count the flashes of the FI light, then reference a service manual and see what it says for the number of flashes, each series of flashes trace it back to a certain trouble code. may give you a place to start looking, my guess is if you had a sensor unooked, that you have some sort of issue with a plug and or connection.

PS. a service manual is like your bible....one of the most valuable tools you can have for these machines.

aussie-sp1 · 06-12-2007, 8:17 AM

I went and checked and all my sensors are plugged in correctly and with a firm fit. I have not been precise in corresponding my findings to you guys, its actually just my rear plug that is fouling, the one under the tank near the seat. Thanks again for replying Kelleyj, my FI light does not come on at all exept when i fire her up which is as per usual. I am wondering is there such a thing as unbalanced throttle bodies? could this be a problem. If anyone has a manual to check this out i would really appreciate it. I just bought a service manual on EBAY and it should arrive in the next couple of weeks, which doesnt help me now. I really appreciate the help you guys are giving me.

kelleyj · 06-12-2007, 8:29 AM

insufficiant airflow to the rear cylinder? have you done anything to the air filters? could somthing be restricting air flow? leaky or faulty fuel injector? weak spark on the rear cylinder? just a few things to check for.

nedro · 06-12-2007, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussie-sp1

Thanks for the useful replies, kelleyj, nedro,gt702. I dont have a power commander which i know i need to get when i can afford one. I did recently disconnect a sensor and was pretty sure that i put it back correctly, but i will double check that, thanks gt702. I am running NGK IRIDIUM plugs kelleyj, so i am sure its not a quality plug problem. I changed them 2 weeks ago when the problem started. The bike is also not idleing on its own, when i stop at traffic lights, it wants to die and shut down and i have to keep revving it to stay alive. Does that mean anything to anyone? Atleast to anyone who knows an RC51 doesnt have carbs. I am aware that i may have to take it to a mechanic eventually but a service costs a fortune and i would like to try and eliminate most of the easy possibilities if i can. Thanks guys. Anymore advice would be helpful.

Sounds like your idle speed motor is stuck or bad.

gt702 · 06-12-2007, 3:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nedro

Sounds like your idle speed motor is stuck or bad.

No idle speed motors, just a lever (on my 2000 anyway) for cold starts, and a screw for setting base.

It is possible for the throttle bodies to be out of synch ... like carbs can get. Unless you did something to them I wouldn't expect this to happen. If the sensors all check out (for the temp sensors, you can put them in cold and warm water ... not the electrical parts .... and check the resistance across the terminals, this should change with temperature) then I would look for either a sticky injector in the rear cylinder or something blocking it's airflow (did you forget a rag in the airbox or have the filter put in wrong?).

There is a procedure in the service manual for testing the injectors, it might be the best place to start.

kelleyj · 06-12-2007, 4:25 PM

that sounds familiar

Quote:

It is possible for the throttle bodies to be out of synch ... like carbs can get. Unless you did something to them I wouldn't expect this to happen. If the sensors all check out (for the temp sensors, you can put them in cold and warm water ... not the electrical parts .... and check the resistance across the terminals, this should change with temperature) then I would look for either a sticky injector in the rear cylinder or something blocking it's airflow (did you forget a rag in the airbox or have the filter put in wrong?).

oh yeah...right here

Quote:

insufficiant airflow to the rear cylinder? have you done anything to the air filters? could somthing be restricting air flow? leaky or faulty fuel injector? weak spark on the rear cylinder? just a few things to check for

lol

aussie-sp1 · 06-12-2007, 10:03 PM

Thanks again guys, i will get stuck into it again tonight after work. Can anyone briefly write down how do i completely remove the air box so i can check the injectors, i might even remove them both and send them away for cleaning, it cant hurt. I did recently remove the mesh from around the stock air filters, but this would only help with air flow. I will check the spark as well, thats easy. This is a slow process and i hope that you guys stick with me for the next few days while i sort this out. Its good to see so much help coming my way. cheers guys.

playwme · 06-13-2007, 7:41 AM

Just checked my manual, which is more for assembly instructions rather than major troubleshooting. However, it does mention throttle and idle valve synchronisation, which is factory pre-set and doesn't give any instructions on adjustment. Could it be something simple like a loose vacuum hose?

Also, if you're removing injectors I believe there are 4 of them.

Air box removal.

Remove in order
Tank
air filter
setting plate
housing screws
drain tube and air supply hose
breather hose

kelleyj · 06-13-2007, 9:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by playwme

Just checked my manual, which is more for assembly instructions rather than major troubleshooting. However, it does mention throttle and idle valve synchronisation, which is factory pre-set and doesn't give any instructions on adjustment. Could it be something simple like a loose vacuum hose?

Also, if you're removing injectors I believe there are 4 of them.

Air box removal.

Remove in order
Tank
air filter
setting plate
housing screws
drain tube and air supply hose
breather hose

are you talking about a 1000RR? hes working on a RC-51.
if you took the filters off to remove the screens, are you sure you got the rear one on properly?
cant help much with taking the air box off as ive never dug that deep into mine. sorry. far as ive went is to take the air box lid off to change the filters.

aussie-sp1 · 06-13-2007, 10:56 PM

Im going to try and remove the airbox one way or another so i can check all the hoses. I've got a PC111r coming next week, so hopefully this can help me cure some of the problems, and not just mask them.

kelleyj · 06-14-2007, 5:54 AM

well if the problem exists without a power commander, they will still exist WITH a power commander...i would definitely find the problem before installing it. you either are not getting enough air to the rear cylinder or not enough spark, or to much fuel, its one of those three, did this problem exist before you had the filters out and took the screens off or did it arise after you put everything back together? if it started this after you put everything back together, how long did it take before it started acting up?

Red Rider · 06-14-2007, 3:33 PM

Have you checked to make sure you're getting a good spark for the rear cylinder? Start there...

aussie-sp1 · 06-14-2007, 11:15 PM

It did start after i removed the mesh off of the air filter but it started a long time after.

m0nSteR TwIn · 06-15-2007, 12:36 PM

Is the plug fouling with fuel or oil? Excess crankcase pressure will cause oil to blow by the rings fouling the plug with oil. Make sure your PCV valves are not plugged.

Of course if it's just wet from excess unburned fuel, you can completely disregard this comment.

Just a thought.

onealrc51 · 06-17-2007, 10:34 PM

Quote:

The bike is also not idleing on its own, when i stop at traffic lights, it wants to die and shut down and i have to keep revving it to stay alive.

i am having the exact same problem on my 03 rc51. it fires right up, but today i got stuck at a wendy's and i had to push the bike about 1.5 miles down the road to a friends house. mine seems to begin running rough when the temp gets up over 185 or so. Cruising on the highway, she runs about 180, and if sitting at stop light, or putting around town in 1st gear it climbs up to about 212. once that happens, the rpms fall below 1k and will die unless i rev it up.

aussie-sp1 · 06-24-2007, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onealrc51

i am having the exact same problem on my 03 rc51. it fires right up, but today i got stuck at a wendy's and i had to push the bike about 1.5 miles down the road to a friends house. mine seems to begin running rough when the temp gets up over 185 or so. Cruising on the highway, she runs about 180, and if sitting at stop light, or putting around town in 1st gear it climbs up to about 212. once that happens, the rpms fall below 1k and will die unless i rev it up.

That is how i would describe my problem. I notice it will always fire up again if it shuts down, and if you leave it shut down for a while and the engine cools enough, the problem goes away until the temp rises again. I've tried everything that all the guys on this thread have suggested but with no luck. (thanks to everyone). I remove my plugs after every ride now and have to clean them to get the thick build up off of them. I did notice the last time that it wasn't oiled up, just carbon. She is running far to rich, i can even smell it on my clothes. So next week it is off to the mechanic. I will get a report and post it here for all you guys to see. Maybe it can help some of you sort out similar problems, or at least bring down the price of the bill when you take it in to be repaired by being able to tell them what is wrong.

onealrc51 · 06-24-2007, 1:25 PM

my bike is off to service this friday, june 29th. i will also hopefully have update by the following monday-tuesday according to them. my rear plug seems black, i'm not too sure if it is just carbon buildup or if it is indeed oil.

aussie-sp1 · 06-27-2007, 2:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onealrc51

my bike is off to service this friday, june 29th. i will also hopefully have update by the following monday-tuesday according to them. my rear plug seems black, i'm not too sure if it is just carbon buildup or if it is indeed oil.

Good luck with your service and i hope you find out what the problem is, im booked in in 2 weeks time, but no one seemed to have any idea as to what the problem is. I took it down to the mechanics today to see what they think, but as luck would have it the bike was running perfect while there and started to die about a mile from home. They want to charge $100 an hour to fix it, but im scared that most of that will go into diagnosing what the problem may be, and the fact that a number of mechanics that i have spoken to cant pin point and possibilities, makes my underwear change colour. But it is booked in now, but hopefully you get some insight from your service and can save me a bundle. Thanks mate and good luck.