Starting issues, flooding, at my whits end please help! sorry for the long read.

GofastJnkie · 10-22-2009, 12:07 PM

I am new to the fireblades forum but not to motorcycles or engines. My bike is an 01 rc51 with a power comander and other mods that wouldn't effect the issue ie. clipons and exhaust ect.

I went to start the bike the other day after the bike has been siting for a few months and it started fairly ez even though the battery was low (have charged battery since to help eliminate as a possibility, also battery was put on just two months ago). It was not wanting to idle at all and would die after ten seconds or so, if I kept the idle up at 5k to 7k (hate to do that on a cold motor) but it would run, any lower on revs and it would miss and run very rough. I pulled the bike out keeping it up in the revs thinking it would clear out, instead it died on me one more time because I let the revs drop and trying to crank would not fire up at all again. thinking it was bad fuel I went and got some 91 and toped off the tank, the gas light was on so not much old fuel was in the tank.

After topping off I tryed to start again and after cranking for 3-5 seconds my brother in law pointed out a puddle of fuel under the bike just infront of the rear tire dripping from the exhaust coming out between the slipon and mid pipe. Thinking it was flooded I held the throttle wide open to help compinsate for excess fuel and didn't help. Trying one more time I then cranked over one to two more times and then hydrolocked full of fuel. I pulled both plugs and cleared the cylinders and put new plugs. I also pulled the injectors and took them to a shop in town that cleaned and flowd them on a bench tester and they are all with in 2% of each other before cleaning, after all are even flow numbers now. Thinking that the injector must have been stuck open and that would fix it put it back together and tryed it again but after 3 to 5 seconds of cranking fuel ran out the exhaust again. Thinking that I have for sure two of the three sides to a running motor (air and fuel) I checked for spark and I have a good spark.

I can look down the throttle bodies and as I crank and there is a strem of fuel from injectors. Thinking I would be able to clean out the cylinders, I disconnected the injectors via unpluging the harness and tryed to crank and it still poured in fuel from the injectors with them disconected. That shouldnt happen! I read about disconnecting the pc and trying to crank it but I don't think thats the issue if I still get fuel with out injectors connected. I am running out of ideas on what to look at next.

Any ideas and suggestions are welcome.

JohnnySpeed954 · 10-22-2009, 12:12 PM

My first step would be to remove the PCIII and hook everything else back up to factory. If the mapping is bad on the PCIII from the dyno tune or map flash it may be trying to dump additional fuel on start up. It's pretty rare but I have seen it happen.

Also ... check the vac lines and make sure they are not full of fuel. This may be the fuel you are seeing with the injectors unplugged.

Shootin from the hip here but it's a good starting point I think.

GofastJnkie · 10-22-2009, 12:21 PM

I see fuel coming out from the high idle circuit or what ever honda calls it, the fast idle circut. it comes out above the throttle blade, weird. thanks Ill make sure the vac lines are clear, and try again with out the pc.

GofastJnkie · 10-22-2009, 2:54 PM

So I disconnected the power comander and it stoped dumping fuel above the throttle blade, but still floods instantly when trying to crank. still dumps fuel when the injectors are disconnected completly.

JohnnySpeed954 · 10-22-2009, 3:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GofastJnkie

So I disconnected the power comander and it stoped dumping fuel above the throttle blade, but still floods instantly when trying to crank. still dumps fuel when the injectors are disconnected completly.

Did you completly remove the PCIII from the system and hook up all the factory connections?

I'm having trouble understanding how there can still be fuel dumping if the injectors are completly unplugged.

Do the vac lines have fuel in them?

zerogara · 10-22-2009, 4:16 PM

Maybe what the controls do to the injectors is to send signla how to restrict fuel and once unplugged they are at 100%, I thought it was the other way around.
If the fuel pressure valve is stuck to shut position, a common and usual problem (it has been revised 2 times and we now have 3 part numbers succeeding each other) will there be a fuel at max pressure reaching the injectors? Tap on the valve a few times to see if it gets loose again and changes anything.
If you disconnect the fuel pump feed wire and it still pouring gas then we are dealing with the supernatural!

JohnnySpeed954 · 10-22-2009, 4:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerogara

Maybe what the controls do to the injectors is to send signla how to restrict fuel and once unplugged they are at 100%, I thought it was the other way around.
If the fuel pressure valve is stuck to shut position, a common and usual problem (it has been revised 2 times and we now have 3 part numbers succeeding each other) will there be a fuel at max pressure reaching the injectors? Tap on the valve a few times to see if it gets loose again and changes anything.
If you disconnect the fuel pump feed wire and it still pouring gas then we are dealing with the supernatural!

That was my next step depending on what eh came back with. Remove the gas tank and hook up a remote fuel tank and see what happens. That would pretty much narrow down what the exact problem was if the fuel stopped flowing when the remote tank was hooked up.

zerogara · 10-22-2009, 4:34 PM

What about the pump? No pump no fuel, right? Injection doesn't work with gravity fed bottles and it is sensitive to pressure. I think VFRs have a similar valve and similar problems with it, it is rated 40psi while the RC is at 50psi I think. Most fuel pumps for carbs are 6-8psi I think!

JohnnySpeed954 · 10-22-2009, 4:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerogara

What about the pump? No pump no fuel, right? Injection doesn't work with gravity fed bottles and it is sensitive to pressure. I think VFRs have a similar valve and similar problems with it, it is rated 40psi while the RC is at 50psi I think. Most fuel pumps for carbs are 6-8psi I think!

Correct but it will tell him if he has stuck open injectors right? Gravity preasure and it still dumps fuel kinda thing? I'm pinning this on a faulty fuel regulator at the moment anyway but I like the rule out factor.

GofastJnkie · 10-22-2009, 7:31 PM

I had the injectors flowed and cleaned, nothing stuck. yes fuel in the vacume lines and with the vacume line off of the regulator it pours fuel out of the vacume port so that would mean the regulator diaophram is punctured or riped. got a new one ordered and it on the way. The fuel system is soaked with fuel so I will be cleaning all the lines out and clear.

Btw even with the injectors unpluged they should not let any fuel in at all, the giveaway with me was unpluging the injectors fuel dumping. wish I had checked it earlier. could have saved me 80 bucks in cleaning and flowing the injectors. o well hope this fixes it.

GofastJnkie · 11-06-2009, 2:03 AM

That was the problem and it is all fixed now, changed oil and plugs like you should after any fuel soaking an engine takes, and now it running like the champ it is.