[gr8scape]

I wouldn't hire him but Johnson & Johnson did. So I guess your statement that they would not be able to find jobs is wrong?

[bladeracer]

Originally Posted by lanbrown

Take Delta; Leo F. Mullin was the CEO and Delta filed Chapter 11 shortly after he left. Is he a CEO now? Nope; he has a job as a director at Johnson & Johnson. He doesn’t make nearly as much as he did before though.

So, does he still make more than some guy on a production line at GM?

[Weasle1000RR]

I'm curious why this keeps coming back to the CEO's, how much they make annually, and weather or not they'd be employable in the future. Does it really matter at this point?

[lanbrown]

Originally Posted by gr8scape

I wouldn't hire him but Johnson & Johnson did. So I guess your statement that they would not be able to find jobs is wrong?

He is lucky to make even 1/10th of what he did. He will never hold a CEO position again. Consider it like this. You get fired and all you can find for work is a fast food place.

Originally Posted by Weasle1000RR

I'm curious why this keeps coming back to the CEO's, how much they make annually, and weather or not they'd be employable in the future. Does it really matter at this point?

Sure, are they willing to do the right things to turn the company around?

[bladeracer]

Originally Posted by Weasle1000RR

I'm curious why this keeps coming back to the CEO's, how much they make annually, and weather or not they'd be employable in the future. Does it really matter at this point?

To my mind it matters because they're the ones that have all the money. Their assets should go back into paying employee wages instead of forming their private retirement funds so they never have to work again while millions of their employees go on the dole.

[bladeracer]

Originally Posted by lanbrown

He is lucky to make even 1/10th of what he did. He will never hold a CEO position again. Consider it like this. You get fired and all you can find for work is a fast food place.

So what?
With all the money they already have they'd only be working for giggles anyway - the actual income would be irrelevant to them.
I could _very_ comfortably live my entire life on what they "earned" for one year of sitting on their greedy arses and nobody in my family would ever have to consider working again.

[Weasle1000RR]

Originally Posted by bladeracer

To my mind it matters because they're the ones that have all the money. Their assets should go back into paying employee wages instead of forming their private retirement funds so they never have to work again while millions of their employees go on the dole.

So, then let them hit up early retirement with the millions they apparently have and be done with it. Though it is nauseating the ridiculous amounts of money they have amassed, none of it seems to have been obtained illegally. This comes back to the restructure argument. Send them away to their summer homes in Montana and find suitable replacements. Meanwhile, all of their employees can be put on paid administrative leave until a solution is reached, and guarantee them a position upon that day. With the factories inactive, operating costs are circumvented and the surplus from that may be used for this.

[bladeracer]

Where does the money come from to pay anybody to go on leave or keep up loan repayments. Shutting down a factory doesn't stop it costing money.
I thought the problem is that there's no money left already?

[lanbrown]

Originally Posted by bladeracer

So, does he still make more than some guy on a production line at GM?

It depends as some of the people working on the line made over $100,000 and a director at J&J can make less than that.

[Weasle1000RR]

Originally Posted by bladeracer

Shutting down a factory doesn't stop it costing money.
I thought the problem is that there's no money left already?

OPERATING COSTS are the key words there. And the money isn't gone. They are asking for it now because their market forecasters are predicting ever increasing losses for the next few years.

[lanbrown]

GM will blow what they are asking for in less than a year at their current losses. They lost 2.5 billion in the 3rd quarter. They lost 6.3 billion in the 2nd quarter. 1st quater was a loss of 3.3 billion. Special items not included; if included, the total over 20 billion for the first nine months of the year.

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by gr8scape

Lets say you were the head of GM for 5 years. Salary is around 20 million a year. You would probably have close to 100 million in the bank. Why would you care if you ever worked again??

You're forgetting the fact that guys on this kind of salary do the same thing we all do. They live beyond their means. They borrow against their future salaries to buy the seven houses in the Hamptons (or around the world) and to pay for the staff to keep them. So, when everything comes crashing down around them they've already spent the next years' salary, too. That's when they they wish they'd learnt how to downsize when they were working because they have to do a hell of a lot of it later!

[lanbrown]

Senator calls for Chrysler merger, new CEO at GM: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance

"AP
Senator calls for Chrysler merger, new CEO at GM
Sunday December 7, 12:43 pm ET

Key senator says auto industry should restructure in exchange for long-term bailout

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A key senator says the nation's car companies should have to replace top executives in exchange for a long-term bailout package from Congress.

Sen. Chris Dodd heads the Senate Banking Committee. He says he is hopeful Congress will pass a short-term $15 billion aid package for the automakers in the next several days. But the Connecticut Democrat says the companies should have to restructure if they want a more significant bailout from Congress next year.

Dodd says the companies need quick cash to avoid collapse in the next several weeks. But over the long-term, Dodd says Chrysler probably ought to merge with another company and General Motors should be required to replace chief executive Rick Wagoner.

Dodd says Ford is the healthiest of the Big Three U.S. automakers.

Dodd appeared Sunday on CBS' "Face the Nation.""

[Stick]

I have not read everyone's reply......

But it is a sink or swim world. MOST cars ANY Americans drive are built HERE! By US! What has killed the the OLD big 3 now big 2 since Chrysler merged with Daimler. (lets not talk about Chrysler deep ties with Mitsubishi.) Union labor. during the 1980's Japan built superior autos for less money. They do so MORE today. Japanese makes are not burdened by labor unions with the cost to employ union workers. (nature of capitalism)

MOST if not ALL Japanese makes we see on the road here in the USA are built here by US! They are our cars. We built them. We do not import them.

I have often fantasized about a factory job. (we do not have industry in Florida) Simple benefits are beyond enough. My grandfather worked for Allison, that became a Roles Royce plant in Indianapolis. Building jet engines.... My own family have benefits from GM and our ties. And a few are direct union workers.

If we want to grow.... we have to be allowed to fail. The housing market bail out was a bandaid. The real problem was ignored. Instead of bringing back our own ability to make and produce. MORE goverment aid will only prolong and delay the long term problem. It will hold back our own ability to make, to produce. To be the best builders the world has ever seen. We lost our honor. WHY? I would love to build Tyotas/Nissans/Hondas, or anything! WHO CARES?!! You can slap what ever name on it you want. We still built it. And we should want to do our jobs as best as we can, and better than anyone else.

If it is a Chinese owned company, or a Korean owned company, or a Russian owned comapany. We have to be the strivers. The ones with pride in work not only for the work, But for ourselves.

Americans do not realize the out of country owned companies that employ US! WHO CARES!!!! more so the reason to be better than everyone else!

If you have a good or better design, lets build it. and then, build it better. And lets sell them. If the employees hinder the product. That's a problem. Companies that are leashed by their own emplyees are doomed to fall behind. Companies should take care of the employees out of the gate, and NOT disinhearten them by forcing them to create unions in the first place.

[lanbrown]

Chrysler is not part of Daimler; they sold 85% back to a private company.

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by Stick

I have not read everyone's reply......

But it is a sink or swim world. MOST cars ANY Americans drive are built HERE! By US! What has killed the the OLD big 3 now big 2 since Chrysler merged with Daimler. (lets not talk about Chrysler deep ties with Mitsubishi.) Union labor. during the 1980's Japan built superior autos for less money. They do so MORE today. Japanese makes are not burdened by labor unions with the cost to employ union workers. (nature of capitalism)

MOST if not ALL Japanese makes we see on the road here in the USA are built here by US! They are our cars. We built them. We do not import them.

I have often fantasized about a factory job. (we do not have industry in Florida) Simple benefits are beyond enough. My grandfather worked for Allison, that became a Roles Royce plant in Indianapolis. Building jet engines.... My own family have benefits from GM and our ties. And a few are direct union workers.

If we want to grow.... we have to be allowed to fail. The housing market bail out was a bandaid. The real problem was ignored. Instead of bringing back our own ability to make and produce. MORE goverment aid will only prolong and delay the long term problem. It will hold back our own ability to make, to produce. To be the best builders the world has ever seen. We lost our honor. WHY? I would love to build Tyotas/Nissans/Hondas, or anything! WHO CARES?!! You can slap what ever name on it you want. We still built it. And we should want to do our jobs as best as we can, and better than anyone else.

If it is a Chinese owned company, or a Korean owned company, or a Russian owned comapany. We have to be the strivers. The ones with pride in work not only for the work, But for ourselves.

Americans do not realize the out of country owned companies that employ US! WHO CARES!!!! more so the reason to be better than everyone else!

If you have a good or better design, lets build it. and then, build it better. And lets sell them. If the employees hinder the product. That's a problem. Companies that are leashed by their own emplyees are doomed to fall behind. Companies should take care of the employees out of the gate, and NOT disinhearten them by forcing them to create unions in the first place.

I agree. One of the biggest points of difference between many of these countries and the US is PRIDE. You mentioned the Koreans; they have great pride in the products they produce and continually strive to improve on them. I haven't seen that attitude coming from the US in a very long time.

But all is not lost. Remember when Japan was producing crap but everyone bought one of their cars because they were dirt cheap? Everybody said they wouldn't amount to very much, but look at them now. Given a willingness to change and a humbleness to start again, the US could (repeat could) return to greatness.

[rokitt51]

I gotta go with natural selection. Raising my taxes to bail someone out isnt gonna benefit me one bit. What would be the stipulations to the billions of dollars that it is gonna take? Is it gonna create so many more JOBS? Will the prices on these rediculously price vehicles go down. Better warranty coverage?

[FB1000inPA]

I am against the bail-out. My reasoning is that either a bail-out or chapter 11 will cost the same amount of workers their jobs.

If you give the car industry money it will be used the same way revenues were used in the past - the higher ups will benefit from it and the workers will pay for it.

When they file for chapter 11 the management will be removed and the already existing chaper 11 structure will take over. The money will be closely controlled.

If a bail-out will be given to the car industry than every other industry will apply for support as well.

[BigBassTurd]

How about if we bail them out they actually make an economical car thats not a sh1tbox. The Focus is a piece of junk along with the Cobalt and Neon. I'll stick with Nissan, 200,010 miles on my 1992 240sx and still runs like a champ. Let them fail only thing I'll miss is the Vette, Viper and ok I'll miss the Rustang too.

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by FB1000inPA

If a bail-out will be given to the car industry than every other industry will apply for support as well.

Which is exactly what they said would happen after the gov bailed out Fanny and Freddy. And guess what... that's exactly what happened. Now every business that's suffering has their hand out.

[bladeracer]

If I had a business that was failing because of my poor management and I had a home loan I couldn't cover because of my poor math skills would I get two hand outs?

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by bladeracer

If I had a business that was failing because of my poor management and I had a home loan I couldn't cover because of my poor math skills would I get two hand outs?

That would depend on how many people you employ and whether your business is a traditional American institution

[FB1000inPA]

All managers will be sitting in the same chairs a few months from now talking about the next auto bailout and the next bailout of wall street while my taxes go up and hell, maybe I won't even have a job and I can send my bills to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

[lanbrown]

Most likely, the CEO of GM (Wagoner) will be gone if they get any money. In 2007, he made close to 15 million. He started with GM in the 80's and then became CEO in 2000. 8 years later and GM is in horrible shape. Ford got a new CEO a few years ago and made big changes; that is why Ford is better off than GM and Chrysler. Wagoner will be gone.

As of a few minutes ago, the senate voted the bailout down due to the UAW not accepting any wage cuts before the current contract expires in 2011. I guess they want no contract and no jobs if GM and Chrysler go under or in Chapter 11. If they enter Chapter 11, the contract is tossed anyway and if the workers strike, they will be in contempt of court. The court will set new wages which they can either work for or be let go. I guess they think they are in cntrol, when they really have no control at all.

[FB1000inPA]

Anyone knows the pay range of employees working for the car industry?

Just wondering since I hear different folks giving incredible amounts which seem to be crazy.

[bladeracer]

I've heard similar figures which just adds to the reason why the industry is falling apart. Sounds like they screwed themselves over with their own greed?

[lanbrown]

UAW Local 22

[bladeracer]

That seems to back up what I've heard - the union has screwed the workers out of their jobs again.

[bladeracer]

How much do the UAW officers earn?

[lanbrown]

UAW officers get pay raise | detnews.com | The Detroit News