[curt248]

Yeah motocross is much harder to do than riding a street bike.

I still put my inside leg out when going around slow corners. lol!

I very rarely use my rear brake when racing motocross. I use the back brake only to keep the front tire in a rut while turning. BTW that works on the street too if you are going to blow a corner.

I remember going back to my dirtbike after riding my sport bike. I would lock up the front tire over and over on the dirt.

[Gezza26]

I think the main problem wouldn't the very first few times out as the newb rider's probably going to be pretty scared of the throttle and ride the bike like a scooter. The danger period is when your good enough to just start exploring the power. Human nature says you'll probably do that as soon as possible, but you don't have the skill to get yourself out of the trouble that arises so quickly on a fast accelerating bike. Also there's alot of things that an experienced rider does as second nature, that a newb still has to think about. That doesn't leave much brain processing power left over for emergency tasks.

One of my first dirtbikes was an RMX250 with pro-circuit pipe. It's addictive feeding on the power, but you soon learn you can get yourself into trouble 100 times faster than you can get yourself out of it. It's funny after a while though the acceralation doesn't seem as blistering as it once was. It's almost like time slows down a little and you've got more time to react to things. It's only once you have a near miss you realise how fast your going. I guess you always have to keep that "what if" scenerio in your head.

[FB1000inPA]

I give you the knowledge of controls but that's about it. I wish I would have a penny for every time I heard the "I was riding dirtbikes" story. Road isn't dirt and riding on either involves different technics. I see how some of these prior dirtbike riders master the new technics they need to learn for road riding and frankly, besides major egos during the first 3 exercises when new riders are catching up with their experiences I have not seen any obvious differences at the end of courses between dirtbike and new riders.

[curt248]

Well obviously racing experience on any mode of transport will help with riding a sportbike or vice versa. Throttle control, turn apex, when it's safe to be on the gas, when to brake all have albeit vague similarities across different disciplines of racing.

From watching the videos on youtube it seems like some of riders crash in the firstexercise.

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by HondaGalToo

I absolutely agree with you 100% on the instruction. I will never agree that a literbike is a good first bike, even with proper instruction...I think it matters how strong the bike is. We can agree to disagree on this point...

All day long! I remember the first time I got on my 400cc. It was way too much bike for me. Lucky I realised this quickly and went back to a 125cc for two years before riding one again.

[SodaO]

dirt bike riding helps a lot for one big reason - balance. usually dirt bike riding starts at a much earlier age - you get a great sense of feel and balance for being on two wheels. you also get to crash alot and build confidence. you finally learn how not to crash by learning how not to panic all the time. counter steering is a natural thing if you're a dirt bike rider.

And for the turning part I kept wanting to throw my leg out like I was going to rail a burm at first.

i find myself doing that too, having raced mx when i was younger. but take a look at motogp recently and you'll see a good proportion of riders (including pedrosa, rossi and lorenzo) doing the same thing.

like i said, whatever you need to keep balance. besides knowing what to hang off a bike, it also includes knowing the right pivot points.

[bladeracer]

Originally Posted by SodaO

i find myself doing that too, having raced mx when i was younger. but take a look at motogp recently and you'll see a good proportion of riders (including pedrosa, rossi and lorenzo) doing the same thing.

Not the same really since the MotoGP riders are doing it to transfer more weight onto the front tyre and down low to move the centre of gravity down and forward to improve braking and turn-in.
I think Rossi was the first to try this trick.
I haven't seen it used outside of the GP classes where its usefulness is probably a lot less on the heavier bikes.

[curt248]

Not the same really since the MotoGP riders are doing it to transfer more weight onto the front tyre and down low to move the centre of gravity down and forward to improve braking and turn-in.

That is the reason we do it in motocross too. Mostly is to get the weight to the front tire to turn sharper. More traction = turn sharper. It's great for turn initiation. It really should be timed perfectly with the start of the turn. Do it correctly and you can go so much faster around a track.

[bladeracer]

I don't watch much dirt riding but it's always looked to me like they're actually using their leg to alter the lean angle without actually falling over.
The only dirt riding I ever did was bushwork and if you put your foot down out there you'd tear your leg off on a rock or a root :-)

[curt248]

It's actually the weight transfer to the front wheel that allows sharper turns that allows us to keep from falling over. If you tried to go around a turn at the same speed without transferring weight to the front tire, you would just wash out the front tire (it would loose traction) or you would have to change the arc of the turn to be wider then you would fall over if you kept the same lean angle. Does this make sense to you?

[bladeracer]

Yep - it makes sense, I just never thought that was what the dirt guys were doing it for :-)
Often their foot is a long way out from the front tyre and they're clearly using their leg muscles as the bike moves up and down in the turns.
The best dirt riding I ever saw was motocross bikes racing around a flat speedway oval. Looked like an absolute blast.

[SodaO]

The best dirt riding I ever saw was motocross bikes racing around a flat speedway oval. Looked like an absolute blast.

flat tracking. not quite motocross bikes but yep, dirt bikes. a lot of good racers came from there. roberts and hayden to name but two.

have you seen 'on any sunday'? best motorcycle documentary ever made.

[BigBassTurd]

I took the flat tracking technique to the mx track. After seeing thos guys come into a corner and scrub speed going sideways gave me a great idea for those long grand prix races(45 minutes race). The track at Glen Helen (San Bernandino Ca.)had some gnarly sweepers coming out of a quarter mile long stretch. The flat track technique worked well on these turns. Down shift keep the feet on the pegs and let her drift. I could keep my speed coming out of the corner and clear the next step up with ease on my RM80 even ( yes yes I know an 80? that was years ago though). I really would like to try one of the supermoto bikes they have out now. They look like they would be a blast on some of these big speed bumps I have by my house . I've jumped it on the blade and actually was suprised on how the suspension took it(Didn't mean to jump the first speed bump was an accident. But after seeing how smooth it was the second and third bump jump I did on purpose). I know you can flame me if you want . I never had to go faster then the speed limit, actually I was probably only doing about 15mph. And the nieghborhood kids that were jumping thier bicycles on it got a kick out of it.

[bladeracer]

I'm a speedbump jumper myself :-)

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by curt248

It's actually the weight transfer to the front wheel that allows sharper turns that allows us to keep from falling over. If you tried to go around a turn at the same speed without transferring weight to the front tire, you would just wash out the front tire (it would loose traction) or you would have to change the arc of the turn to be wider then you would fall over if you kept the same lean angle. Does this make sense to you?

Yep, my bro and his mate used to ride DT50's on the street back when he was in college. His mate used to always get round a corner much quicker and my bro, if he tried the same speeds, would fall off.

That happened quite a bit until my bro realised that the only thing his mate was doing differently was kicking his leg out and forward coming into the turns. Once he tried it, the two of them were pretty much on a par!

[bladeracer]

I don't know what a DT50 is but many years ago (before pocket bikes) a mate owned three ZR50's.
After a raceday we'd go back to his place for a feed and then three of us would hoon around the neighbourhood in the dark on them in full race leather :-)
Our knee sliders were almost touching down even going in straight lines as we were basically sitting on our heals :-)

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by bladeracer

I don't know what a DT50 is but many years ago (before pocket bikes) a mate owned three ZR50's.
After a raceday we'd go back to his place for a feed and then three of us would hoon around the neighbourhood in the dark on them in full race leather :-)
Our knee sliders were almost touching down even going in straight lines as we were basically sitting on our heals :-)

The DT50 was Yamahahaha's starter dirt-tired road bike thingy.

[exit90a]

Originally Posted by FB1000inPA

I am not going to say it, no, not a chance. "Smaller is better" - there, I said it. Happy now?

Which brings me to my next question: What's with this dirtbike thingy? I hear so much about dirtbikes and prior experience and better street bike riders if you were a prior dirtbike rider.

I never understood that. Frankly, I don't even come close understanding it. Tell me the pros of prior dirtbike riding.

This does not apply to the people who sat on a minibike twice at their freinds house. It is also not meant to associate "dirt riding" with superior skills. The point of "I grew up on dirt bikes" is the growing up part. The controls on a dirt vs street bike are identical. I got my first bike a 5 years old. I have had a motorbike of some kind continously since that time. By the time I was of age to ride a bike on the road, I already had tons of expirence and was very capable. Its called muscle memory. Repeat the same complicated series of tasks enough and you will eventualy be able to perform with minimal thought or concentration needed. Lastly, in the dirt vs asphalt comparison, one must admit that most asphalt is relatively smooth and provides good traction. Dirtbikes are most often found in dirty settings such as mud, sand, gravel, water, snow and ice. Learning to ride a bike in these conditions lets you expirence sliding and a lack of traction on a regular basis. Muscle memory applies here as well and will keep a seasoned dirt rider from freezing up or loading their pants in such a situation on the asphalt.

[stolenF4i]

Originally Posted by nedro

I've never seen a noob with enough sack to apply the front brake hard enough to endo. They usually just hit the rear brake and go skidding their rear wheel while riding the bike staight up into the hillside. But if you think that's funny, check out someone with years of street experience ride their first dirtbike at speed. All you have to do is park yourself on the inside of the first turn to watch them lean into the turn, lowside it, and wonder what just happened.

I never had a dirtbike first, and that would be me.... Haha

[Gr1mm4]

Christ, that was WAY too much throttle!

I used to ride lots of MotoX bikes when I was younger but from the age of 14-20 I hadn't rode anything big. Then I done my Direct Access (skips 125cc and 33bhp restriction) at 24 and hopped straight on to a YZF750r, I must admit I was overwhelmed at first but common sense and good throttle control prevented me from making any major mistakes.

I also got caught off guard by the weight of the YZF one day and dropped it, but that happens to most people lol! (haven't dropped any others after that one)

Since passing my Direct Access I have owned and hired: (In order)

0: learning schools bike (GS500)
1: YZF750r
2: SV650 (Sharpie - lady knocked down my YZF and they hired me this)
3: GSXR 600 SRAD
4: My current CBR900RR (By far the peakiest bike I have owned!)

A healthy respect for the power beneath you is usually a good start to not crashing the thing.

[unfetteredmight]

Seeing as I have a Fireblade as my first bike and am doing just fine with it, I would think a lot of things factor into what is a good first bike. Maturity of the rider would be paramount I would think, followed by just good old common sense. Now that kid didn't even have any experience with a clutch, much less a motorcycle, his buddies set him up for failure and they could have gotten him killed.

Basically, whenever I've taught someone how to use a clutch on a car, it was "Now this is your new gas pedal and your safety switch". He should have explained that to the kid, "if you get in trouble, pull this all the way in and you'll be ok", his focus should have been on that handle alone.

They did the equivalent of handing a 5 year old a loaded gun, morons.

[shakey1378]

Originally Posted by unfetteredmight

Seeing as I have a Fireblade as my first bike and am doing just fine with it, I would think a lot of things factor into what is a good first bike. Maturity of the rider would be paramount I would think, followed by just good old common sense. Now that kid didn't even have any experience with a clutch, much less a motorcycle, his buddies set him up for failure and they could have gotten him killed.

Basically, whenever I've taught someone how to use a clutch on a car, it was "Now this is your new gas pedal and your safety switch". He should have explained that to the kid, "if you get in trouble, pull this all the way in and you'll be ok", his focus should have been on that handle alone.

They did the equivalent of handing a 5 year old a loaded gun, morons.

granted your 33 and probably have better self preservation than a teenie bopper or early 20 something. your also driving an older blade which is heavier and much slower than the current and id still consider it too much for a beginner. in most cases the young guy with more balls than brains is probably going for the newer 1kRR.

the biggest thing that drives me nuts is why people who are just starting out want such a drastic learning curve

you have a good mindset you'll be ok, most wouldn't

i have a friend currently learning on a 96 srad 750 and hes almost dumped it a few times. granted hes getting better but even he's admitted he bit off more than he could chew for a true first timer. isnt hindsight great

[unfetteredmight]

Originally Posted by shakey1378

granted your 33 and probably have better self preservation than a teenie bopper or early 20 something. your also driving an older blade which is heavier and much slower than the current and id still consider it too much for a beginner. in most cases the young guy with more balls than brains is probably going for the newer 1kRR.

the biggest thing that drives me nuts is why people who are just starting out want such a drastic learning curve

you have a good mindset you'll be ok, most wouldn't

i have a friend currently learning on a 96 srad 750 and hes almost dumped it a few times. granted hes getting better but even he's admitted he bit off more than he could chew for a true first timer. isnt hindsight great

That is true, I would have had absolutely no business with this bike in my early 20s or younger. Some of the stories I could tell about my best friend and I and the things we did when we were traveling together in separate cars back in those days, if we had bikes then......yeah we probably both would be dead.

The reason I ended up with this bike was it was too good of a deal to pass up, and I enjoy a challenge. Believe me, it's a challenge not to hit that fun button every chance I get, I have to admit it takes A LOT of self control.

LOL, yeah hindsight loves to remind one what a moron one can be.

[BigBucks458]

LOL on the whole thread

I learned on my dads 97' Suzuki Marauder VZ 800 for about two months then got my first true ride (03 954) yea she's touchy but I've never crashed (knocking hard on wood )

[jhaggerty73]

Originally Posted by BigBucks458

...yea she's touchy but I've never crashed

I believe I read this in a book of Famous Last Words

[bladeracer]

Originally Posted by jhaggerty73

I believe I read this in a book of Famous Last Words

The term "never" actually translates as "not yet" :-)

[BigBucks458]

[mohamedrani]

wow man,,,,,bad move
hope u r good in that nw

keep ur eye on it

[reefkprZ]

first bike I ever drove was my buddies kids 50cc honda. I had the damndest time figuring out the shifting. pretty funny getting lessons from the (12 year old) kid that had out grown the bike. good teacher though. gotta say learning on the tiny bike helped a lot there was no way I was going to shoot myself into the shrubbery at 100mph on that thing.

second bike I got on was a 600 GSXR. little different LOL

[Konich]

I actually think my 07 was pretty damn easy to handle and ride "comfortably" compared to when I started riding years ago. The thing is smooth and very forgiving compared to the other major 600's out there. Most of it has to do with the tool located between a person's ears