[stolenF4i]

Instead of there being 800 threads, I thought I could throw this on, and edit a top 5 or 10 list (depending on how lazy I am). When I looked for my first bike (and I was a brand new rider) I had such a tough time figuring out which would be the best fit.

Anyway, sportballa4eva just asked about 400's, which I haven't seen anywhere in the US very easily. I figured I would keep the top however many, plus HP / Torque, the high and the low for each. Below will be a summary for as many as people throw in. I think that 600's can be a good bike, but some of the new 600's are so fast that they keep you from being able to corner and ride well because you can't control your throttle.


If you have a disagreement, write your stuff up... I will put it in here eventually.



Highlights
Brand / Model / Hp / Torque / High / Low
1. Ducati Monster / 80 Hp / 51 ft lb / Great cornering, light / Pricey
2. Honda CBR F4i / 95 hp / ??? / good all-around bike, torque / uncomfy
3. Suzuki SV650 / 70 hp / ??? / good all around and cheap / ugly
4. Kawasaki ZZR - Kawasaki's version of the Honda 4Fi
5. Honda 599 / 48 hp / 88 ft lb / well mannered / less hp than others
6. Ninja 650 - Serendipity's recommendation
7. Kawasaki 500 - Never rode it


The summary includes the style (naked, full fairing, partial) and engine style (inline 4 or v-twin). This was done quickly, so forgive me an mistakes.

Summary
1. Monster - Naked - Vtwin
This is my new fav to list as a beginner bike. I just had this discussion with a guy with a 1098. The Monster probably has the least hp of all the sport bikes, even if it is a naked bike. I love this as a beginner bike because it is light and really a bike that will give confidence to cornering in. The only downsides I see are price and issue getting work done, and then the fact that when I first rode this, the v-twin was scary compared to a smooth inline 4. That probably will keep people safer. You get all the good things of a 600 without the crazy power of a gixxer or r6. I don't foresee anybody accidentally flipping this over with the ease of a gixxer.

2. F4i - full fairing - inline 4
This was my first bike and I loved it. I didn't start with any other bike - dirt, or anything. I never managed to wheelie it (although it got stolen after about 6 months)... although it felt torquey enough to throw me back in the seat. Very well-mannered bike, and it was easy to turn and lean and control. It is mild enough that keeping it straight was simple - once I switched to my Ninja 636, that bike WANTS to lean, and was harder to keep going straight because the slightest lean made you move. The F4i was much simpler and more forgiving. This bike will also have enough power to grow with you.

3. Sv650 - full fairing or naked - vtwin
Suzuki SV650 Review | Best Beginner Motorcycles

5. Honda 599 versus SV650 - naked - inline 4
Honda 599 vs. Suzuki SV650 vs. Yamaha FZ6 - Road Test & Middleweight Motorcycle Comparison Review - Motorcyclist Online

6. Kawasaki 650
I would add the Ninja 650 R to that list. More for those transitioning out of dirt bikes, but it's a great beginner bike that has enough power to excite for a few years, yet has enough forgiveness in the suspension and torque curve to be safe.

Other 600's to compare (power / weight) that are not a good beginner bike. I think you can focus on 600's that aren't the "super sport" 600's and get a great starter bike.
Yamaha R6 - 100 hp
Suzuki Gsx-r - 101 - hp
Honda CBR RR - 103 hp
Suzuki Katana - heavy bikes that don't corner well, and not as nimble as other bikes

[bladeracer]

I wouldn't recommend anybody's first bike be Italian.
The atrocious quality, reliability, noise and cost on top of the expensive servicing, hopeless customer support and resale can easily turn a new rider off the whole idea.

The F3 and F4 would be the top of my list.
It's a very smooth transition from these in either the sports or the touring direction once they decide which they prefer.

My number one recommendation for anybody learning to ride though is the GPX250R (EX250 in the US).

[stolenF4i]

Originally Posted by bladeracer

I wouldn't recommend anybody's first bike be Italian.
The atrocious quality, reliability, noise and cost on top of the expensive servicing, hopeless customer support and resale can easily turn a new rider off the whole idea.

The F3 and F4 would be the top of my list.
It's a very smooth transition from these in either the sports or the touring direction once they decide which they prefer.

My number one recommendation for anybody learning to ride though is the GPX250R (EX250 in the US).

Maybe, but in the states its tough to find 250's... which is why I put up this post. I have a friend looking for a 250 and she couldn't find any used and only one new after searching pretty hard.

[bladeracer]

Originally Posted by stolenF4i

Maybe, but in the states its tough to find 250's...

Yes, I know and it's a bloody shame.
There can't be many Americans that have had the fun of hammering around on a lightweight 250 with no fears of nailing the throttle wide open :-)
In hindsight I'm very pleased we had to start on 250's as I would never have had that much fun on a 600 when I was learning to ride.

[shakey1378]

Originally Posted by bladeracer

Yes, I know and it's a bloody shame.
There can't be many Americans that have had the fun of hammering around on a lightweight 250 with no fears of nailing the throttle wide open :-)
In hindsight I'm very pleased we had to start on 250's as I would never have had that much fun on a 600 when I was learning to ride.

thats cause they are too busy worried about what they look like on a 250 or that they are such good learners that they will grow out the 250 too soon and feel they have wasted money. the age old american mindset of bigger is better. i work with a guy who is convinced he can start on a gsxr750 or late 90's zx9r. his reasoning is because he's a lard arse. at 6'0" tall and 250lbs he thinks he will need the added power to pull his weight. i know and you know that thats wrong...

proof positive all we can do is give good advice and hope people listen. i agreed to help this guy i work with to learn to ride. even though he may buy too much bike, at least he is signing up for the msf course and i made it quite clear for me to help you gotta be fully geared up atgatt!

[stolenF4i]

Originally Posted by shakey1378

thats cause they are too busy worried about what they look like on a 250 or that they are such good learners that they will grow out the 250 too soon and feel they have wasted money. the age old american mindset of bigger is better. i work with a guy who is convinced he can start on a gsxr750 or late 90's zx9r. his reasoning is because he's a lard arse. at 6'0" tall and 250lbs he thinks he will need the added power to pull his weight. i know and you know that thats wrong...

proof positive all we can do is give good advice and hope people listen. i agreed to help this guy i work with to learn to ride. even though he may buy too much bike, at least he is signing up for the msf course and i made it quite clear for me to help you gotta be fully geared up atgatt!

At least you start on a 250 at MSF...

In other news... my first bike was an 05 f4i... the first time i rode with a girl i was sad that it felt like a whole extra second to get up to 120. I mean 50. Something like that

[shakey1378]

you start on a 250 with msf. but 3 days for the beginner course doesnt exactly mean your ready for a supersport 600 or superbike. the cbr600f3,f4, or f4i at least the power comes on around 8,000 rpm as opposed to a liter bike. my 929 pulls pretty damn hard from 4,000 rpm

some guys can get a bigger bike and be fine. im not sure if anyone can confirm this but ive heard in the usa more 600cc race reps have been written off more than any other type of bike. im guessing its a combo of new riders and crazy squids. when i hit the streets most 600 were less than 100hp now all of them are over 100hp at the wheels.

its kinda funny how guys wanna jump into the fastest bike they can get there hands on right off the bat. if only they knew how much fun it is to throw around a 35-45hp supermoto or like bladeracer stated ninja 250, glad i do.

[Serendipity]

I would add the Ninja 650 R to that list. More for those transitioning out of dirt bikes, but it's a great beginner bike that has enough power to excite for a few years, yet has enough forgiveness in the suspension and torque curve to be safe.

[Twincam]

How about the GPZ500? I think in the US they were called Ninja 500s?

Great starter bike - has about 56BHP, its light and flickable, neutral riding position and very forgiving.

[bladeracer]

Originally Posted by Twincam

How about the GPZ500? I think in the US they were called Ninja 500s?

The ZZR600 (ZX6E) is another good one but I've found they feel a bit bulkier than the F3/F4.
The option of being able to run "standard" 120-17 and 180-17 tyres is worthwhile I think since all bigger bikes run them and there's always a good supply of cheaper ex-race rubber
The GS500 is another fun lightweight but has an odd rear wheel (I think the latest ones have a 17" though?) and rare enough to limit resale ability when you're ready to move up.

[stolenF4i]

Originally Posted by bladeracer

The ZZR600 (ZX6E) is another good one but I've found they feel a bit bulkier than the F3/F4.
The option of being able to run "standard" 120-17 and 180-17 tyres is worthwhile I think since all bigger bikes run them and there's always a good supply of cheaper ex-race rubber
The GS500 is another fun lightweight but has an odd rear wheel (I think the latest ones have a 17" though?) and rare enough to limit resale ability when you're ready to move up.

Those both sound good. I never rode the zzr but just knew it was designed to be pretty comparable to an F4i.

The 500 I have seen too. I think if the GS500 is flickable... that is another reason it would make a good beginner bike.

In all honesty, my rc51 corners better than my ninja 636 so I have learned to be a better rider on it. I think bikes that lean well and help riders learn transitions and cornering are a huge plus for first time riders.

[bettingpython]

The EX500 is the 500 ninja and is miles better than the GS. The GS is total shite you'll outgrow it faster than the Ninja 250.

[stolenF4i]

Originally Posted by bettingpython

The EX500 is the 500 ninja and is miles better than the GS. The GS is total shite you'll outgrow it faster than the Ninja 250.

I can scrub the GS500 off the list. Since you said shite I'm guessing you live outside the US and see lots more 500's than we do here.

I rode a ninja 250 the other day and it felt good cornering at about 50, although i kept thinking i would go up 10 on the rear sprocket. I almost couldn't get it out of the driveway since it has no low end power. I rode up on my rc51, which, after sprocketing, can't go below 25 without using the brake (not a terrible feature in my mind)... and when I pulled out on the 250 I kept thinking I might have to fred flinstone it to get it out of the driveway.

Seems like the list is pretty good at about 5... any changes to order?

[shakey1378]

some bikes for tall beginners

klr 650- reliable and comfy
drz 400s dual sport
drz 400sm supermoto
xr650L dualsport
dr650se dual sport

always felt dual sports make great beginner bikes as they can usually take a beatin. not great choices for the inseam challenged though

[bettingpython]

Originally Posted by stolenF4i

I can scrub the GS500 off the list. Since you said shite I'm guessing you live outside the US and see lots more 500's than we do here.

I rode a ninja 250 the other day and it felt good cornering at about 50, although i kept thinking i would go up 10 on the rear sprocket. I almost couldn't get it out of the driveway since it has no low end power. I rode up on my rc51, which, after sprocketing, can't go below 25 without using the brake (not a terrible feature in my mind)... and when I pulled out on the 250 I kept thinking I might have to fred flinstone it to get it out of the driveway.

Seems like the list is pretty good at about 5... any changes to order?

Yep I had a GS500, 2 valve parralel twin extremely lean jettted from the factory and crap suspension. Wife learned to ride on it and I used it as general transpo for a while before that. It has issues with the fuel valve flowing enough gas at higher revs as well. Okay off to meetings the rest of this week have fun.

FYI I recommend the new Ninja 650 faired or the naked version as a great beginners machine as well.

[altair]

This really helped me out!
Most of my family , has a yamaha or a cbr sportbike, so they are really really urging me to go either or..
Can anyone give me some good (2001-2007) honda or yamaha starter bikes.
I just finished the MSF course and am now Trying to save every penny to get a bike before it all leaves my head. College student cant save to much at one time ..
but any help would be appreciated

[Shinobi250]

I'm got lucky. I was going to get a CBR 600RR as my first bike. I didn't know any better. Luckily my friend told me about Ninja 250s. Until then, I was under the impression that 600s were the smallest cc bikes you could get.

Anyway, I got bought a ninja 250 brand new. They're not too hard to find these days. I laid it down once, but no damage other than the lens for the turn signal coming off. (I'll replace it when I'm better). The best part was that I paid so little, I didn't care.

[c0nn0r147]

Originally Posted by stolenF4i

Instead of there being 800 threads, I thought I could throw this on, and edit a top 5 or 10 list (depending on how lazy I am). When I looked for my first bike (and I was a brand new rider) I had such a tough time figuring out which would be the best fit.

Anyway, sportballa4eva just asked about 400's, which I haven't seen anywhere in the US very easily. I figured I would keep the top however many, plus HP / Torque, the high and the low for each. Below will be a summary for as many as people throw in. I think that 600's can be a good bike, but some of the new 600's are so fast that they keep you from being able to corner and ride well because you can't control your throttle.


If you have a disagreement, write your stuff up... I will put it in here eventually.



Highlights
Brand / Model / Hp / Torque / High / Low
1. Ducati Monster / 80 Hp / 51 ft lb / Great cornering, light / Pricey
2. Honda CBR F4i / 95 hp / ??? / good all-around bike, torque / uncomfy
3. Suzuki SV650 / 70 hp / ??? / good all around and cheap / ugly
4. Kawasaki ZZR - Kawasaki's version of the Honda 4Fi
5. Honda 599 / 48 hp / 88 ft lb / well mannered / less hp than others
6. Ninja 650 - Serendipity's recommendation
7. Kawasaki 500 - Never rode it


The summary includes the style (naked, full fairing, partial) and engine style (inline 4 or v-twin). This was done quickly, so forgive me an mistakes.

Summary
1. Monster - Naked - Vtwin
This is my new fav to list as a beginner bike. I just had this discussion with a guy with a 1098. The Monster probably has the least hp of all the sport bikes, even if it is a naked bike. I love this as a beginner bike because it is light and really a bike that will give confidence to cornering in. The only downsides I see are price and issue getting work done, and then the fact that when I first rode this, the v-twin was scary compared to a smooth inline 4. That probably will keep people safer. You get all the good things of a 600 without the crazy power of a gixxer or r6. I don't foresee anybody accidentally flipping this over with the ease of a gixxer.

2. F4i - full fairing - inline 4
This was my first bike and I loved it. I didn't start with any other bike - dirt, or anything. I never managed to wheelie it (although it got stolen after about 6 months)... although it felt torquey enough to throw me back in the seat. Very well-mannered bike, and it was easy to turn and lean and control. It is mild enough that keeping it straight was simple - once I switched to my Ninja 636, that bike WANTS to lean, and was harder to keep going straight because the slightest lean made you move. The F4i was much simpler and more forgiving. This bike will also have enough power to grow with you.

3. Sv650 - full fairing or naked - vtwin
Suzuki SV650 Review | Best Beginner Motorcycles

5. Honda 599 versus SV650 - naked - inline 4
Honda 599 vs. Suzuki SV650 vs. Yamaha FZ6 - Road Test & Middleweight Motorcycle Comparison Review - Motorcyclist Online

6. Kawasaki 650
I would add the Ninja 650 R to that list. More for those transitioning out of dirt bikes, but it's a great beginner bike that has enough power to excite for a few years, yet has enough forgiveness in the suspension and torque curve to be safe.

Other 600's to compare (power / weight) that are not a good beginner bike. I think you can focus on 600's that aren't the "super sport" 600's and get a great starter bike.
Yamaha R6 - 100 hp
Suzuki Gsx-r - 101 - hp
Honda CBR RR - 103 hp
Suzuki Katana - heavy bikes that don't corner well, and not as nimble as other bikes

im looking for a new bike my dad kinda likes the idea of a 250 or a 500 but i dont think that it would satisfy me for very long i like power and torque and even more i love leaning into turns with ease but also kinda in a "racier" fashion. so i need some ideas for good bikes i dont really care for the new ninja 250r and i hate the look fo the ninja 500 i hate that seat i like cbr600f4i i like its looking bold and kinda racier so if anyone has ideas lemme know

[Twincam]

Originally Posted by c0nn0r147

im looking for a new bike my dad kinda likes the idea of a 250 or a 500 but i dont think that it would satisfy me for very long i like power and torque and even more i love leaning into turns with ease but also kinda in a "racier" fashion. so i need some ideas for good bikes i dont really care for the new ninja 250r and i hate the look fo the ninja 500 i hate that seat i like cbr600f4i i like its looking bold and kinda racier so if anyone has ideas lemme know

How long have you been riding for?

[c0nn0r147]

i learned how to ride a ttr-90 about 6 years ago and it wasnt mine it was my friends from there i started riding with my friend and rode his xr100 manual clutch and from there rode his 400ex quad and then went riding with my friend and rode his 150 so ive been off an on with bike for 4+ years but the only thing i own now is a junky suzuki ts90 with no wheels used to ride it and thats what i learned a little better on and i ride a tomos moped

[stolenF4i]

Originally Posted by Twincam

How long have you been riding for?

FYI - I picked my 600Fi up after never having ridden before

[c0nn0r147]

and did it turn out to be ok was it easy to ride im so worked up about this and people tell me different things some people say get a 250 or try and get a 125 but some people tell me a 600f4i would be good

[Twincam]

Originally Posted by stolenF4i

FYI - I picked my 600Fi up after never having ridden before

Thats a very good bike to have started off on, how are you finding it now?

[Twincam]

Originally Posted by c0nn0r147

and did it turn out to be ok was it easy to ride im so worked up about this and people tell me different things some people say get a 250 or try and get a 125 but some people tell me a 600f4i would be good

They are all good bikes, the 125 and the 250s are both lighter and more forgiving than a 600 would be - its therefore all down to what you feel comfortable riding.

[c0nn0r147]

im confused aha i dont know who ur asking here but do you know of any good more advanced beginner bikes

[shakey1378]

think about what you just said "more advanced" and beginner dont really belong together in the same sentence. if you look at the bikes reccomended id say the f4i and sv650 are probably the better performing. i just dont get what the rush is to jump on the bigger bike. sometimes i miss the smaller bike myself.

i think supermotos are the most over looked by beginners, they are built like enduro bikes, most are pushing 38-65hp out of a big single. 250-690cc even the heaviest come in under 320lbs majority under 300. good ergos, fun at legal speeds, and tires and brakes that work just as good as a supersport. cheap if you drop it too. drop a blade and fix it on your own coin is big bux

[c0nn0r147]

yeah i know i just wanna be the big shot i guess at school haha im sure you know how that use to be but ever since my dad brought up the idea that hes gettin me a bike i havent stopped looking at bikes and i know that i can ride a 600 but i know that it shouldnt be my first bike so im looking for the best small bike that will deliver a punch but a sport bike my dad doesnt really want a supermoto

[Twincam]

Originally Posted by shakey1378

think about what you just said "more advanced" and beginner dont really belong together in the same sentence. if you look at the bikes reccomended id say the f4i and sv650 are probably the better performing. i just dont get what the rush is to jump on the bigger bike. sometimes i miss the smaller bike myself.

cheap if you drop it too. drop a blade and fix it on your own coin is big bux

I sometimes take my sons RXS100 out when I'm just going to get a few parts or to the shops. Well mainly as its a lot easier to get out, cheaper on fuel and will get me there and back at the same time it would have taken me on the blade or such like.

The damage from a 10MPH hit I had on my blade (someone began doing a u-turn with no indication/checking etc) came to £2360. The damage on my sons RXS when he was hit was £0. Just needed the foot pegs being taken to with a club hammer.

Once his two years of his CBT are up, he'll be moving up to a GPZ500s. (the RXS is a two stroke, 6 volt, 98cc engine capable of getting him up to 68MPH with his head down - thats all he needs).

Originally Posted by c0nn0r147

yeah i know i just wanna be the big shot i guess at school haha im sure you know how that use to be but ever since my dad brought up the idea that hes gettin me a bike i havent stopped looking at bikes and i know that i can ride a 600 but i know that it shouldnt be my first bike so im looking for the best small bike that will deliver a punch but a sport bike my dad doesnt really want a supermoto

What bike does your dad WANT you to get? It seems as if he has his mind set on a bike already. Whats happened about the bandit 400?

[shakey1378]

Originally Posted by c0nn0r147

yeah i know i just wanna be the big shot i guess at school haha im sure you know how that use to be but ever since my dad brought up the idea that hes gettin me a bike i havent stopped looking at bikes and i know that i can ride a 600 but i know that it shouldnt be my first bike so im looking for the best small bike that will deliver a punch but a sport bike my dad doesnt really want a supermoto

is the bike for you or your dad? 9 outta 10 the guy tryin to be a big shot is the first to make an example out of himself...

if your dad knew all the details he may favor the supermoto. but regardless you should be doing this according to skill level not too which bike is the fastest a newb can sanely handle. there is no right answer to that question.

if your being pushed to a larger displacement go with the sv650.

something tells me your father may ride a cruiser?

[c0nn0r147]

ok my dad kinda wants a 250 or anything but a 600 or 650 but i want the look of a superbike of a crotch rocket and i like power and yes my dad rides a yamaha roadstar warrior and his good friend rides a zx14 they dont go well together haha