please tell me!

altair · 05-19-2009, 10:48 AM

I really like you guys because you tell the truth not just what I want to hear.I am about to purchase my first bike, I really want a ninja 650r, that's the best bike I am interested in that a begginer can start on according to what I've read here. My question is I really want a new one at least a 08.I've taken the MSF course and I consider myself a good driver and I did very well with the course ( I'm sure you've heard that a million times) but I feel like bikes are my thing and I've found something that I'm really good at. Is it that bad if I get a new one or do I absolutly have to get a used one. I trust your judgement so I'll go with what you guys and gals advise.
Thanks

Bonefish · 05-19-2009, 11:16 AM

Altair.

If you got the cash...buy new. I had not ridden a bike for 15 yrs and when I did get one eventually, I bought it brand spanking new. What a feeling , no other butts have been on your bike!

Do yourself a favour and BUY this. Great reading and it will teach you loads.
Twist of the Wrist - Keith Code

altair · 05-19-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonefish

Altair.

If you got the cash...buy new. I had not ridden a bike for 15 yrs and when I did get one eventually, I bought it brand spanking new. What a feeling , no other butts have been on your bike!

Do yourself a favour and buy this. Great reading and it will teach you loads.
Twist of the Wrist - Keith Code

Awesome! I'm glad to hear that, thanks for the site. !

bladeracer · 05-19-2009, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonefish

Altair.

If you got the cash...buy new. I had not ridden a bike for 15 yrs and when I did get one eventually, I bought it brand spanking new. What a feeling , no other butts have been on your bike!

Do yourself a favour and download this. Great reading and it will teach you loads.
Twist of the Wrist - Keith Code

Please don't post links to illegal material here...

Bonefish · 05-19-2009, 11:30 AM

bladeracer · 05-19-2009, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by altair

I really like you guys because you tell the truth not just what I want to hear.I am about to purchase my first bike, I really want a ninja 650r, that's the best bike I am interested in that a begginer can start on according to what I've read here. My question is I really want a new one at least a 08.I've taken the MSF course and I consider myself a good driver and I did very well with the course ( I'm sure you've heard that a million times) but I feel like bikes are my thing and I've found something that I'm really good at. Is it that bad if I get a new one or do I absolutly have to get a used one. I trust your judgement so I'll go with what you guys and gals advise.
Thanks

If you want a new one then buy a new one. I've bought three brand new bikes in my time ('84, '90 and '98) and haven't felt any differently about them to all the secondhand ones I've bought. In fact, I get a lot more enjoyment from riding a bike I've built myself out of a wreck or a blown engine.
Buying new is _much_ more expensive compared to buying used.
A good deal on a used bike can mean on-selling it later for at least as much as you paid for it or even more. A new bike has already cost you more than a grand before you even start the engine just in depreciation and dealer fees. If new means you also have to finance it rather than owning it then you can add more fees and interest and compulsory comprehensive insurance (required by the financers to protect the value of _their_ bike while you're riding it) none of which is recouped at resale. A new bike often puts the owner off doing any of their own maintenance out of "loss of warranty" fear which means all the expenses of dealer servicing.
Worst of all, buying new, and especially your first bike, you can get roped into all sorts of "extras" by the dealer - extras whose only value often is simply a bigger profit to the dealer and zero added value to the owner. Helmets, riding gear, extended warranty and so on. If you need or want such things get them by all means but shop around first and _never_ ever get them included in a finance contract for the bike!
As I said, if you want new then buy new but at least know what the difference is before buying :-)

altair · 05-19-2009, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bladeracer

If you want a new one then buy a new one. I've bought three brand new bikes in my time ('84, '90 and '98) and haven't felt any differently about them to all the secondhand ones I've bought. In fact, I get a lot more enjoyment from riding a bike I've built myself out of a wreck or a blown engine.
Buying new is _much_ more expensive compared to buying used.
A good deal on a used bike can mean on-selling it later for at least as much as you paid for it or even more. A new bike has already cost you more than a grand before you even start the engine just in depreciation and dealer fees. If new means you also have to finance it rather than owning it then you can add more fees and interest and compulsory comprehensive insurance (required by the financers to protect the value of _their_ bike while you're riding it) none of which is recouped at resale. A new bike often puts the owner off doing any of their own maintenance out of "loss of warranty" fear which means all the expenses of dealer servicing.
Worst of all, buying new, and especially your first bike, you can get roped into all sorts of "extras" by the dealer - extras whose only value often is simply a bigger profit to the dealer and zero added value to the owner. Helmets, rding gear, extended warranty and so on. If you need or want such things get them by all means but shop around first and _never_ ever get them included in a finance contract for the bike!
As I said, if you want new then buy new but at least know what the difference is before buying :-)

Hmmm, ok so your saying make sure I do not include my helmet and jacket into the finace of the bike? I didn't even think about the fact that my wArranty would go out if I customize it. What made you buy new instead of buying used? I guess I should take a experienced rider with me when I go get the bike to make sure I did not get roped into. Alot of fees then ? I agree with what your saying to, I definatly want to finance but mabye I could go through my bank and byuy a used one from craigslist. My biggest worry is how many people say you'll drop your first bike

bladeracer · 05-19-2009, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by altair

Hmmm, ok so your saying make sure I do not include my helmet and jacket into the finace of the bike? I didn't even think about the fact that my wArranty would go out if I customize it. What made you buy new instead of buying used? I guess I should take a experienced rider with me when I go get the bike to make sure I did not get roped into. Alot of fees then ? I agree with what your saying to, I definatly want to finance but mabye I could go through my bank and byuy a used one from craigslist. My biggest worry is how many people say you'll drop your first bike

Why would you want to pay interest on the small items that you can buy with cash?
If you don't already understand the costs of financing I highly recommend you take a crash course before signing anything.
Warranty probably wouldn't be affected by customisation but warranty is worthless in my opinion.
The first I bought new because I had a very limited income (I was studying) so I needed to finance it and finance was a lot easier on new bikes.
In '89 I bought new because I had written off my '88 GSXR and wanted the new '90 model to race - I actually bought it well before it was released.
In '98 I bought new because I wanted the new '98 GSXR with fuel injection to race.
As for dropping your first bike, I dropped my first bike (and every bike since) many times while learning to ride fast enough to decide that I wanted to race.

ldavis · 05-19-2009, 12:46 PM

if you're going to look into taking out a small loan from your bank i would highly recommend checking out some of the bikes that are for sale around here. craigslist can net you a good bike, but you never really know how well a bike has been taken care of. there are plenty of enthusiasts around on the forums that have taken extreme care of their bikes, and you'll find that you can get a nicely modified one for much less than you would have spent on a brand new stock bike.

and as far as which bike you go after it's all about respecting the machine you're on. I started out on a 600rr and moved up to a 954 within 6 months and the 1krr 6 months after that. so if you think you're going to want a larger bike anytime soon definitely don't buy new, you just waste money that way.

altair · 05-19-2009, 1:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldavis

if you're going to look into taking out a small loan from your bank i would highly recommend checking out some of the bikes that are for sale around here. craigslist can net you a good bike, but you never really know how well a bike has been taken care of. there are plenty of enthusiasts around on the forums that have taken extreme care of their bikes, and you'll find that you can get a nicely modified one for much less than you would have spent on a brand new stock bike.

and as far as which bike you go after it's all about respecting the machine you're on. I started out on a 600rr and moved up to a 954 within 6 months and the 1krr 6 months after that. so if you think you're going to want a larger bike anytime soon definitely don't buy new, you just waste money that way.

Look around here, that would be great! In the marketplace you mean? I live in va, how would shipping for a bike cost and compose of. I think buying from here would be great because ad I said I've gotten alot of information from here and if there are bikes for sales I'm sure they would be in better condition than what's in craigslist. Any 600cc bikes you would suggest other than the 650r that look good?

And that's good to know , I want something that I can ride and learn on, but not get tired of it after 2 weeks.

dicknose · 05-19-2009, 9:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bladeracer

Please don't post links to illegal material here...

And dont quote the illegal link!
The original post has been changed but your quote of it is still there!

Back to topic...

People will say you will drop the bike.
You dont have to!

Chances are you will, your first year you are likely to make a mistake even if its stopped or at walking speed.

But if you can afford it and insurance then Id say go for it. Its your money - enjoy it.

Then again what is "afford".
Personally I wouldnt buy a vehicle with finance. Borrowing to buy something that will depreciate quickly isnt great sense.
If you dont have the money for a new one maybe getting a 2-3 year old bike might be better financial sense.

bladeracer · 05-19-2009, 9:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dicknose

And dont quote the illegal link!
The original post has been changed but your quote of it is still there!

True, but so is the OP's quote of it which I can't alter :-)
I just assumed a mod will get onto it soon enough.

shakey1378 · 05-19-2009, 11:47 PM

nothing feels better than paying cash. save up, have a yard sale, sell anything you have no use for.

being a first bike i would pay cash and go used if i could do it over. my dad talked me into buying new when i got my first streetbike. but from my research there is so many nice used bikes with low mileage that people buy because they think they wanna ride and sell once they find out its not for them or there is "no time to ride"

if you must finance try to put down half. this way you know its worth more than the bank note

bladeracer · 05-20-2009, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakey1378

if you must finance try to put down half. this way you know its worth more than the bank note

This is a good point.
I speak to way too many people that finance figuring if they can't make the payments the bank will simply repossess the vehicle but it's not that simple.
They repossess the vehicle and auction it for whatever the market will pay for it - but you still owe them the difference so you could still be making payments for years without even owning the bike anymore.
I met one idiot that financed a new GSXR1000 and not long after buying it, totally destroyed it in a crash while drunk and unlicenced so no insurance. He's probably still paying that off.

altair · 05-20-2009, 10:25 AM

I will finance cause i know i can pay it lol.. i would never put myself in a position where a bank would repo anything i own lol....I have the money, im in the process of moving out and i just thought id save the extra 3 or four thousand and just make payments.. I was in the market place looking, it seemed like alot of people have 954 or 1000 cc bikes , not to many 600s up for sale

I guess i just have to wait till i see a good deal, ill prolly be buying late june , im sure something will present itself by then. But also insurance will be lowered if i buy used and cash, so thats what im looking into!

shakey1378 · 05-20-2009, 10:35 AM

search other forums too. im sure you can find something. as far as insurance your premiums will vary more by bike choice than by its age. the 650 should be cheap to insure. sounds like you got it all figured out.

altair · 05-20-2009, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakey1378

search other forums too. im sure you can find something. as far as insurance your premiums will vary more by bike choice than by its age. the 650 should be cheap to insure. sounds like you got it all figured out.

Yeah..ive put in alot of thought into it, now all i have to do is get the bike and ill be happy, then i can customize it the way i want

shakey1378 · 05-20-2009, 7:27 PM

if your gunna customize it wait till you get some miles under your belt. i say this incase of a drop.

things i would do immediately to a new bike would be frame sliders or braided lines. start looking at riding gear. that should probably be your focus other than the actual motorcycle itself. ive spent a ton more money on updating all my kit rather than upgrading my blade. when it comes to safety gear its quite an investment. quality gear may cost you some money but the level of comfort over the cheaper stuff is amazing.

altair · 05-20-2009, 8:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakey1378

if your gunna customize it wait till you get some miles under your belt. i say this incase of a drop.

things i would do immediately to a new bike would be frame sliders or braided lines. start looking at riding gear. that should probably be your focus other than the actual motorcycle itself. ive spent a ton more money on updating all my kit rather than upgrading my blade. when it comes to safety gear its quite an investment. quality gear may cost you some money but the level of comfort over the cheaper stuff is amazing.

Help me out, I'm sorry lol "frame sliders" "braided lines"???
I gotcha on all the other stuff though, I'll prolly go withbscorpion gear on gear from my bikes dealer

shakey1378 · 05-20-2009, 9:50 PM

frame sliders aka crash bobbins- in most cases "delrin" hard plastic like material. the stick through the fairing a little bit to minimize damage should you lowside or drop your bike.

stainless steel braided brake lines was the other thing. gives you better feel and more consistant braking. not a big concern if you buy brand new. its a must if buying pre-owned bike with stock lines.

Shinobi250 · 06-27-2009, 4:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dicknose

And dont quote the illegal link!
The original post has been changed but your quote of it is still there!

Back to topic...

People will say you will drop the bike.
You dont have to!

Chances are you will, your first year you are likely to make a mistake even if its stopped or at walking speed.

But if you can afford it and insurance then Id say go for it. Its your money - enjoy it.

Then again what is "afford".
Personally I wouldnt buy a vehicle with finance. Borrowing to buy something that will depreciate quickly isnt great sense.
If you dont have the money for a new one maybe getting a 2-3 year old bike might be better financial sense.

I'm not sure about the insurance thing. I bought my bike new and they didn't require that I get anything in addition to regular liability coverage.

As for dropping the bike at low speeds, it's so true. I've been riding for about a week and I dropped it at a stop sign

Don't underestimate the weight of a bike. The best part was that I didn't care.

I bought a 250 to learn on. They're relatively cheap bikes, but it's not easy to find a used one. Luckily, the only damage was the loss of the lens off of my turn signal.

I financed mine, but with the intention of paying it off in 2 months. I did the math and the finance charge is low enough to make it worth getting the bike a month earlier than I anticipated and having it for more of the summer.

bladeracer · 06-28-2009, 1:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinobi250

I'm not sure about the insurance thing. I bought my bike new and they didn't require that I get anything in addition to regular liability coverage.

As for dropping the bike at low speeds, it's so true. I've been riding for about a week and I dropped it at a stop sign

Don't underestimate the weight of a bike. The best part was that I didn't care.

I bought a 250 to learn on. They're relatively cheap bikes, but it's not easy to find a used one. Luckily, the only damage was the loss of the lens off of my turn signal.

I financed mine, but with the intention of paying it off in 2 months. I did the math and the finance charge is low enough to make it worth getting the bike a month earlier than I anticipated and having it for more of the summer.

That's unusual as the finance company would have no collateral to protect their bike while you're riding it. If you write it off and decide not to make any more payments they'd have to sue you to recover the money they loaned you. That's why they require comprehensive insurance. Maybe it's different in the US though?

Isn't there a fee for early payout?

Shinobi250 · 07-02-2009, 9:29 PM

No, there's no pre-payment penalty. I made sure of that before I signed the papers.

As for the collateral, the bike is still the collateral. If I were to stop making payments then they can repossess the bike and then go after me for the balance on the loan. Perhaps it's such a low principal amount that there's no point in requiring higher coverage.

spina220 · 07-02-2009, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bladeracer

That's unusual as the finance company would have no collateral to protect their bike while you're riding it. If you write it off and decide not to make any more payments they'd have to sue you to recover the money they loaned you. That's why they require comprehensive insurance. Maybe it's different in the US though?

Isn't there a fee for early payout?

It depends on who you borrow the money from , sometimes people can not get financing through the #1 finance company. For example if Honda Finance Corp.will not approve you for a loan the dealer usually goes to an off branch fly by night lender who will not require the bike to have full coverage, but your loan has about a 22% intrest rate, and god help you if wreck it because now you have to fix the bike out of pocket while still paying your loan. It is mostly done with people with little or no credit.

bladeracer · 07-03-2009, 6:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinobi250

No, there's no pre-payment penalty. I made sure of that before I signed the papers.

As for the collateral, the bike is still the collateral. If I were to stop making payments then they can repossess the bike and then go after me for the balance on the loan. Perhaps it's such a low principal amount that there's no point in requiring higher coverage.

Yes, the bike is the collateral but if you write it off and decide not to pay anymore they're out of pocket. That's why they usually require insurance.

dicknose · 07-03-2009, 8:05 AM

Im surprised if an insurance comp would allow a vehicle as collateral and not require it to be insured (at your cost!)
The insurance is as much to protect them.

Now if its just an unsecured personal loan its a different matter.

A lady at work just bought her first bike and got finance that included insurance (probably a chance for them to sting her with insurance at a friendly rate or kickback for them!)

The Gerd · 07-16-2009, 10:18 PM

I would definitely buy used for your first bike, not because you will drop it, but because you often get out of having to pay for the more expensive service intervals. Also you can work out a deal with people much easier than dealers, as most people selling a bike just need to get rid of it.

I hunt for deals on Craigslist and I have found quite a few that i wish I could take advantage of...(2007 ZX-6R with 3k miles on it with no scratches, dings or dents for $5000, for example).

The biggest thing with new bikes is that you have to deal with more crap; dealers, maintenance intervals (required for warranties to apply), financing (if you dont have the cash), dealer fees, etc. I will admit that theres a certain satisfaction to popping the cherry on a new bike. I paid cash for my 09 Repsol and it had .1 miles on it from being rolled around the store with the key in the ignition. It was pure ecstacy rolling it off my truck to ride it the first time and taking in all the attention it gets.

I would save your money and wait on a new bike for when you are experienced and discover what you want from a bike...hell you might find you dont like sport bikes (i doubt it, but hey it could happen).

dicknose · 07-17-2009, 6:39 AM

A lady at work just got a brand new bike for her first ever bike.
She had dropped it twice in the first 2 days. And twice more in the next 2 weeks.
All while stopped!
She is short and she can only get toes down (the bike is short as well)

I suggested a 2nd hand bike but she wanted new.
She has now dropped the bike more times in a couple of weeks than I have in 20 years.

bladeracer · 07-17-2009, 6:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dicknose

A lady at work just got a brand new bike for her first ever bike.
She had dropped it twice in the first 2 days. And twice more in the next 2 weeks.
All while stopped!
She is short and she can only get toes down (the bike is short as well)

I suggested a 2nd hand bike but she wanted new.
She has now dropped the bike more times in a couple of weeks than I have in 20 years.

A mate of mine in Adelaide bought a new '06 F4i and crashed it the first night. Then he crashed it again a couple of weeks later. For a brand new bike it sure looked secondhand :-)