worth getting a restricted 650cc?

liyer01 · 07-02-2009, 9:11 PM

hey guys,

with the new bike laws in australia (mainly talking about victoria) learners can now ride 650cc learner approved bikes. i have had a look at them and they dont seem all that bad (and im a rare male cause i like the suzuki gladius) but i dont know if i should go get a 650cc one. because to be learner approved for those who dont know they are microchipped or something that just basically limits the motor. but in the back of my mind i keep feeling that even once i get it unrestricted it wont seem like a true 650cc it feels 'dirty' in a way i guess and i kinda feel that it wont actually ride as other true 650cc ones will. besides from a dealer NOT a mechanic friend etc, to get it unrestricted will set back A$700 - A$1000. im just wanting to know what others think

Shinobi250 · 07-02-2009, 9:34 PM

If you want something to learn on, then just get a 250. You can put the thousand dollars that it would cost to remove the governor chip (first time I heard of a bike with that) toward a bigger bike when you're ready.

Don't take my word for it though, I'm a newb too. All I know is my bike holds its value well so I'll just sell it for a few thousand when I'm ready to get a bigger bike (in a year or two)

Twincam · 07-02-2009, 9:36 PM

Its probably much like the laws here in the UK.

When you pass (Unless you do the DAS course) you are restricted to 33BHP (no matter what machine)... Some people abide by the rules, others break it.

Usually (on carb'd bikes) they install many restrictors such as placing a "washer" inside the carb, restricting the flow from the exhaust etc. On FI bikes they may place a limiter electronically.

Its something you can live with...

Twincam · 07-02-2009, 9:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinobi250

If you want something to learn on, then just get a 250. You can put the thousand dollars that it would cost to remove the governor chip (first time I heard of a bike with that) toward a bigger bike when you're ready.

Don't take my word for it though, I'm a newb too. All I know is my bike holds its value well so I'll just sell it for a few thousand when I'm ready to get a bigger bike (in a year or two)

Repped.

liyer01 · 07-03-2009, 1:42 AM

yeah true but im just wondering would it be saving money so then i dont need to upgrade later its just a fact of removing the chip...

as for the UK laws its pretty much the same thing here although cause im not so technical yet with bikes i cant tell you precisely.

its basically either something not exceeding 260CC or a LAMS (learner approve motorcycle scheme) bike which is dependant on make suzuki have a fair few and honda have 3 i dont know too many choices and too much hassle wish i could just have one of each bike

bladeracer · 07-03-2009, 7:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liyer01

yeah true but im just wondering would it be saving money so then i dont need to upgrade later its just a fact of removing the chip...

as for the UK laws its pretty much the same thing here although cause im not so technical yet with bikes i cant tell you precisely.

its basically either something not exceeding 260CC or a LAMS (learner approve motorcycle scheme) bike which is dependant on make suzuki have a fair few and honda have 3 i dont know too many choices and too much hassle wish i could just have one of each bike

I'm not aware of any restictions to any bikes to make then LAMS legal - they're either on the list or they're not. None of them are restricted.

But, I know nothing about the LAMS restrictions so I just looked online and found the latest list of bikes - http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/reso...ist_090619.pdf

Restrictions are not more than 660cc capacity and not more than 150kW per tonne (I assume that's without including the rider). Assuming a dry weight of 200kg you're talking about 40hp at the crank maximum.

All bikes up to 250cc are eligable except the two-stroke 250's (RGV, RS, KR/KR1/KR1S, NSR and TZR).

The list of approved 250+ bikes is extensive but I can't see any 650's listed that would need restricting to fit the requirements.
What 650's are you talking about and who quoted you the price for deresticting them?

The Hyosung has all the 2010 650's listed with (-40) after their name so perhaps they're building versions restricted to 40hp for LAMS approval?

setanta · 07-03-2009, 7:05 AM

If it were me Id get a sv650s brilliant little bike you can have so much fun on it. Also as Twin says, to get it limited you only need a washer, so to upgrade just get it removed (cheap) Now you have a new bike without, doing all the searching, loosing value and the rest of hassle. also you will have got used to the bike but now it will have a little more fire. The SV will give you a lot of experience and Youll never outride it, at least for a long long time

Just my 2C

Oh one last point I started out on one, so loved that bike

dicknose · 07-03-2009, 7:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bladeracer

I'm not aware of any restictions to any bikes to make then LAMS legal - they're either on the list or they're not. None of them are restricted.

I only just found about this!
Yes there are some that are factory restricted.

You cant just buy any bike and restrict it - it has to be on the approved list!

Quote:

The Hyosung has all the 2010 650's listed with (-40) after their name so perhaps they're building versions restricted to 40hp for LAMS approval?

Yes they restrict them! Its an option when you buy the bike.

Im of 2 minds.
Yes its nice to have a bit more power later when you are allowed to, but if you really want power then these bikes arent going to cut it! Certainly not worth paying to get it destricted.
So Id say dont do it!

Then again Ive looked at the current learner legal bikes and the range of interesting 250s is shrinking!

One big thing is how tall you are.
If you are tall then some (most) of the 250s can be a bit physically small and a bigger bike might be better.

Another good choice is the GPX250 - been around for 120 years (ok - more like 20) but a decent 250 that doesnt look like a 250.

dicknose · 07-03-2009, 8:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by setanta

If it were me Id get a sv650s brilliant little bike you can have so much fun on it. Also as Twin says, to get it limited you only need a washer

No go - thats not on the list.

If it doesnt come restricted by the manufacturer you cant restrict it yourself and try to claim its under the power/weight limit.

setanta · 07-03-2009, 8:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dicknose

No go - thats not on the list.

If it doesnt come restricted by the manufacturer you cant restrict it yourself and try to claim its under the power/weight limit.

Shame that here you get a shop to do it and docs to prove it

Twincam · 07-03-2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by setanta

Shame that here you get a shop to do it and docs to prove it

Dicknose, if the bike is on the list but doesn't have the restrictor kit installed, can you not buy the kit and get it fitted (therefore giving you a certificate like Setanta was saying?)

bladeracer · 07-03-2009, 2:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twincam

Dicknose, if the bike is on the list but doesn't have the restrictor kit installed, can you not buy the kit and get it fitted (therefore giving you a certificate like Setanta was saying?)

There is no option in the law allowing the restricting of a bike to make it fit the power requirement - at least not that I'm aware of.

How common is it in the UK that restricted bikes find themselves unrestricted while the rider is still restricted?

dicknose · 07-04-2009, 5:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twincam

Dicknose, if the bike is on the list but doesn't have the restrictor kit installed, can you not buy the kit and get it fitted (therefore giving you a certificate like Setanta was saying?)

Possibly. I know some bikes its an option. Not sure what the laws are about un-restricting or restricting an equivalent bike.
If the restricting is done in the ecu it might not be economic!

But the list isnt just bikes under 660cc - its bikes under that capacity that come with a factory option for the restrictor.

I didnt see the SV650 in the link above (for Qld) but its on the NSW list!
Approved motorcycles for novice riders

Suzuki expands LAMS range with detuned SV650S and GSX650F

liyer01 · 07-04-2009, 5:35 AM

well i know for example victoria the sv650 is legal for learners if you jump on the suzuki website for example and it has LAMS its obviously approved. BUT i must say the lists arent always up to date from what i have found cause ive looked before (not too recently) and they dont have some bikes that you can get. however states laws vary hence the suzuki sv650 is legal in victoria.

and there is no option to get any bike restricted and get a certificate as far as i know but then again i think it would be too much effort for a learner bike lol

but most companies are now releasing 650's that are approved for learners (in some states) but im yet too see the cost value of getting one then getting it unrestricted.

bladeracer · 07-04-2009, 5:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liyer01

hence the suzuki sv650 is legal in victoria.

It'd be more accurate to say that the "LAMS-approved version of the SV650" is learner legal I think. At $10,000 I can't imagine there'd be all that much interest though? What's the new price for the GPX250R these days?

Personally, I don't think I'd much enjoy the step-up to an open-class bike if I'm still on the same old bike just with a bit more power. I'd prefer something small and cheap with good resale value for while I'm learning and then get the full experience of stepping up to a whole new bike.
I had an absolute ball when I was restricted to 250's and I'm glad I was required to do it that way or I never would've experienced how much fun they are.