Gas prices

[ND4SPD]

Write to your house rep, and let them know that it's

www.house.gov

[deez]

How much are you paying there? I think I paid $1.79 a gallon for regular octane (87) last time I filled up. Premium is like $2.00 a gallon here. If you go into the city (Seattle) add 20 cents to these prices.

[ND4SPD]

Varies between $1.79 & $1.85 for regular It's ridiculous. It's gone up 40-50 cents in the last 6 weeks.

It adds up quickly when you drive 2,000 miles/mo

[TAZ]

Originally Posted by ND4SPD Write to your house rep, and let them know that it's www.house.gov

Don't get me wrong. I drive a 16 mpg Suburban, and love cheap gas as much as the next guy. I'm also a conservative. However, I'm not as miffed about gas prices as the media would like me to be.

I'm sure it costs a lot to make gas. First an oil company has to find the oil, and get it to the surface. Then it's got to be shipped to a refinery, where its refined and made into gasoline. Then it has to be trucked to filling stations on every other corner, and the station owners need to make a dime. Think about all the people involved in this process. If gas prices stayed high, we'd see smaller, lighter vehicles, and a more urgent effort to examine alternative fuels or more efficient engine technology, which would only benefit the lot of us.

Now think for a second about WATER prices. Take "Dasani", for example. Bottled by the Coca Cola company, it was recently revealed that this is basically not much more than tap water from London (if I recall the story correctly)...yet it costs a dollar per 20 oz. bottle. That's at LEAST ~50% more than gasoline, which costs a lot more to make, and has major environmental impacts. Bottled water has got to be the biggest ripoff there is...but try telling that to my wife, who makes me get her a bottle every time I run into the convenience store...

But so much for all the people who thought the war in Iraq was a ploy to get cheap oil!

[ND4SPD]

It's not the water you pay the $1.20 for, it's the plastic bottle they put it in, and the pretty label they put on it, and the marketing behind it.

It's always the container you pay for. Believe me, one of my best friends is an account manager at Alcan. Their profit margins are insane!

[soon2b954]

We're up to 80 cents a liter up here in TO!!

US and Canada still have some of the cheapest prices anywhere in the world.

[luvtolean]

We were talking about this yesterday, there's all kinds of ways to look at it. How many gallons of gas minimum wage would buy an hour, convert dollars to 70's prices, look at inflation...but at the end of the day the real problem is the importance of gasoline/diesel in the US.

A bottle of water is not important. You can still get a cup of ice water for free almost anywhere, including gas stations. It might taste like ****, and it won't have that fancy package, but for the most part it will be mostly healthy. Because you have very little need for bottled water, exorbitant prices don't matter...people just won't buy it.

Gasoline is an energy source, like electricity. We have to buy it, no matter the cost. The way our country is set-up, a car in most places is a practical necessity. Bicycles and public transpo, both of which I advocate and use frequently, have their limits in our suburban society. It's OK for gas prices to rise if they match inflation, it's not OK for them to spiral upward as it causes panic, and significant pain to people financially.

CA has it bad, our fuels have a special formulation and cost more. Truckers here already are turning down jobs and sitting at home as they only break even if they haul at current fuel prices. This isn't good.

I don't have a solution as I don't want to see gasoline become government controlled, but as we were talking about in past threads, Kerry must be praying for high prices...

[Serial Thriller]

Originally Posted by ND4SPD It's not the water you pay the $1.20 for, it's the plastic bottle they put it in, and the pretty label they put on it, and the marketing behind it. It's always the container you pay for. Believe me, one of my best friends is an account manager at Alcan. Their profit margins are insane!

Good thing they don't package gasoline that way!

[luvtolean]

They do, the blue cans say "VP" on the side, warn of all kinds of toxic cancer causing crap inside, and they contain addictive substances.

[ND4SPD]

Someone just posted this on another forum www.gasbuddy.com Hope it's useful to some of you

LTL, my dad has been trying to get a trucking company off the ground for the last 2yrs or so, and he finally shut it down and went to work as a subcontractor for his old employer because he couldn't cut it. The gas prices and everything else were just costing too much.

[luvtolean]

Yeah.

I'd really like to see much more stringent standards for average fuel economy in the US on carmakers, but it's gonna take a major event to make that happen. Prices get bad enough, rationing starts, and you'll see people start warming to the idea.

[luvtolean]

Bush and Kerry comment. Bush is doing it by funding oil exploration, shortsighted crap. Kerry is saying oil co's are making record profits, no kidding you idiot. They're selling more and more to all of us in our 12MPG SUV's...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp.../gas_prices_11

[ND4SPD]

Originally Posted by luvtolean Bush and Kerry comment. Bush is doing it by funding oil exploration, shortsighted crap. Kerry is saying oil co's are making record profits, no kidding you idiot. They're selling more and more to all of us in our 12MPG SUV's... http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp.../gas_prices_11

Bush-Cheney campaign spokesman Steve Schmidt responded Tuesday, "The John Kerry complaining about energy costs today must not have checked with the John Kerry who helped block the energy bill last year or the John Kerry who supported a 50-cent tax hike on a gallon of gas."

[HondaGalToo]

Originally Posted by luvtolean Yeah. I'd really like to see much more stringent standards for average fuel economy in the US on carmakers, but it's gonna take a major event to make that happen. Prices get bad enough, rationing starts, and you'll see people start warming to the idea.

Yeah, me too. But would the American public really ever warm to the idea? The American mentality of "bigger is better" and their love of big automobiles is well-ingrained. What happened to the gas lines and rationing in the 70s? Anyone remember that? I do. It gave folks perhaps a brief start, but what has happened since then? We're driving even bigger, less fuel effecient (or at least very little improvement) vehicles today. It didn't leave much of a lasting impression.

[Chain]

Nobody who's anti-war can bitch about gas prices cause the war is all about oil, right?

[luvtolean]

Maybe I need to move this thread to the political category.

[bubba]

good thing the new vette is rated close to 30o on the highway, even chevy is trying to conserve fuel

[BDA116]

I just wanted to point out that the number one factor in gasoline prices is being left out here. OPEC controls oil prices, not 'big oil' companies. OPEC controls output, and they slowed the taps recently. The price for crude oil has jumped by a large amount in recent months, to try and offset the plummet at the beginning of the war and to line the pocets of the money-hungry mongrels. If OPEC had any soul or conscience, oil prices would come down.
Of course, if we used the huge oil reserves on our own soil we wouldn't have to deal with OPEC and prices would plummet.
Yes, more effecient cars are one way to go. It would help the owner's bank account greatly. But, gas and oil prices wouldn't be directly affected in the long term by more effecient cars. Yes, if everyone's car was instantly more effecient, there would be a large reserve stockpile up front, but the flow would again be controlled and prices would return to where they are. It would be a short-term price reduction. The only long term difference would be that the owner of the vehicle would be spending less. Those that make smart decisions should be rewarded for them.
Oil companies are making proifts. Of course, they have to, that's what being in business is all about. But if you were to break down the price of a gallon of gas, you would see that the two leading profiteers are first - the government; and second - OPEC. Federal and state taxes make up around 40% of the cost of a gallon of gas. Oil company profits are maybe 15%.
I'd love to see people driving more effecient cars, if only to get back at the rat bastards in charge of oil production. They would end up making less money in the long run. Of course, the most intelligent thing we could do is to tap our own oil fields and tell the international oil community to suck our collective cocks.

[luvtolean]

Dependance on OPEC is directly proportional to the amount of oil we import from them. We all drive Prius' and get 50-60MPG and suddenly demand drops way the hell off. OPEC closing the tap matters less because other oil producers will be able to meet a larger percent of the demand.

Another reason for the spike is the lack of natural gas which powers refineries, causing price increases.

[BDA116]

Originally Posted by luvtolean Dependance on OPEC is directly proportional to the amount of oil we import from them. We all drive Prius' and get 50-60MPG and suddenly demand drops way the hell off. OPEC closing the tap matters less because other oil producers will be able to meet a larger percent of the demand. Another reason for the spike is the lack of natural gas which powers refineries, causing price increases.

True, but control would still taper off to the point that prices will remain stable. There aren't many players outside of OPEC (that added to the fact that OPEC has pulled some similar stunts to DeBeers to keep control). In fact, the argument could be made that pricing would elevate beyond what it is now - I doubt that, but there are "experts" that think it is possible.. I fully agree that in the short term oil pricing would drop. But it wouldn't stay there.
The fact still remains that the absolute fastest and easiest way to nip this in the bud would be to use our own vast resources. (Which I know YOU know, just wanted to make the point)
If we truly controlled Iraq's oil, this wouldn't be an issue, either.

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by BDA116 There aren't many players outside of OPEC (that added to the fact that OPEC has pulled some similar stunts to DeBeers to keep control).

Actually, it looks to me like most of our oil comes from non-OPEC countries...http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/rankings/crudebycountry.htm


But since oil demand is a worldwide phenom, and we only have finite production worldwide, I guess OPEC raising prices will still allow these other countries like Canada and Mexico to do the same.

We'll use our oil when the cost outside the country makes it economically feasible to do so. Many oil wells in this country just don't run because the cost of crude is too low.

[asiliat]

I personally think we should ban most of the road vehicles. We need more efficient engines, and not just a bump-up in displacement whenever we need power.

I think SUVs and even minivans suck up more gas than what they're worth most times.

[BDA116]

Even looking at the most recent month report it looks as though we are slightly higher than 50% from non-OPEC. Stats don't lie. That said, it hasn't always been the case, so this is a change for the better. However, the other countries don't have the reserves of the OPEC countries, and barrel pricing still seems to hang on OPEC output.

[Fig]

Well, I will toss this in before it gets shot over to the political category. Ughh...

How about gas stations changing prices on a whim. Don't they buy the gas by the truckload at a set price. X dollars for X gallons. Yet, they stick their finger to the wind, or call up their buddy at the mobil across the street, and decide we just go up in unison, and no one can complain. How about only allowing them to change the price when they get a truck in. I feel like I am being screwed daily because they pay a set price for a tankful, yet we have to watch it fluctuate depending on what bills the owner of the station has to pay that week. They claim that the price has gone up, yet they already paid for the gas in the ground at their station.

It's a conspiracy I tell ya...
Fig

[Chain]

Originally Posted by luvtolean Maybe I need to move this thread to the political category.

C'mon LTL, I was just phucking around!

[Baketech]

Gasoline has been undervalued for too long....I am glad to see it go up. Should be 2.50 or so in the Midwest and around 4.00 in California to be equivocal....

[dB]

Originally Posted by Fig How about gas stations changing prices on a whim.

I wonder how much control the individual stations have over the price? It's my impression that the big chain stations are more or less told what they're price will be...then the mom and pops stations follow along just behind them.

Anyone know?

BTW, paid 2.02 for 87octane this morning....which is down over .10 from a couple weeks ago.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Baketech Gasoline has been undervalued for too long....I am glad to see it go up. Should be 2.50 or so in the Midwest and around 4.00 in California to be equivocal....

I don't think that is true. I heard on fox news last night that the exxon/mobil makes 21 billion/year in pure profit. I think that would point to overvaluing the product.

It's kinda like tobacco. You just grow the stuff for next to nothing and then decide how much gravy you want to make...

[Baketech]

Originally Posted by TCD I don't think that is true. I heard on fox news last night that the exxon/mobil makes 21 billion/year in pure profit. I think that would point to overvaluing the product.

What does that really mean....

Sorry, I get hung up on quant sometimes....how about tempering that number with the number of gallons sold, and tell us what fraction of a penny that it would represent in the price per gallon....

I'm not going to comment on the 2nd generalization....

[Heavy-Dee]

The real problem is that the technology exisits to make a motor produce 300 hp/300 lb ft of torque, and still get 30+ mpg. I have no proof, but I am convinced that it can be done, and the only reason that it doesn't, is b/c

1. The auto manufacturers don't have to.
2. The "Big Oil Execs" are lining the pockets of the "Big Auto Execs".

My .02.

HD