Any Law Enforcement persons out there? Need your insight...

swoop1156 · 08-22-2008, 11:09 PM

A post of what happened to me today, and I need some help.

Scenario: My buddy Mike and I were riding our motorcycles. We were in the wrong, yes, doing 65-70 in a 55. Just cruising along.

Mike takes off suddenly and I'm estimating about 110-120. I continue my current speed. About ten seconds after that, a trooper BLOWS past me and goes up the hill and around the bend. Never looked at me, honked, pointed, nothing. In fact, the air from his car moved my bike a little, he was hauling.

So, long story short, he never motioned for me to stop so I continued on my route home and never thought anything of it.

I get home and there is a text message from Mike, "Sorry man, he got your tags, too."

WTF?

Now, being in the military and the fact that my buddy gave him ALL of my information, the trooper called our command. So, I get to be with Mike at 8:00am in our dress uniform ready to face the man.

That part I don't get. Why are they getting involved when neither of us got a ticket? Mike was doing easily 120 and didn't even get anything. I wasn't even pulled over!

Here is the story that my command got from the Trooper:

Quote:

I pulled over two bikes, both clocked at 126mph. One stopped [Mike] and one [Me] ran from me.

So, here is my question for those in the Law Enforcement arena:

What can come of this?

1.) The trooper never signaled for me to stop.
2.) Yes, I was speeding, but not 126mph. It was 70. Posted speed was 55.
3.) The trooper never saw me, talked to me, made contact, nothing. It could have not even have been me, you know?
4.) Apparently, he has my plates. Can you get plates from a small motorcycle plate while you are driving 120-130+ passing the said bike?

Just a little confused as to if I should be concerned or not.

Also, I've already admitted to myself and all of you that I was wrong for doing 70 in a 55, but he did NOT motion for me to stop, or I would have. I've never ran and I never will.

Help?

whatever · 08-23-2008, 12:13 AM

In the service, perception is worse than reality.

It is one reason I got out of the Army. You are guilty until proven innocent in this case. Mike may be able to tell the truth, but officer has plate info and your guilty. No tickets really lets the 'man' punish you rather than the law. Good luck and a good commander will realize that the cop is a tosser and just give a counseling statement filed locally. I was arrested for 119+ and got it reduced to speeding and command did nothing to me, but the fries in the bank teller drive up tube is a different story.

Good luck

rokitt51 · 08-23-2008, 12:41 AM

You didnt get a ticket so that is one less problem to worry about. You are still in the military and owned by Uncle Sam until your ETS date. You dont need any opinion from a LEO. Point blank yout 1SGT or CO is gonna deal with you how they see fit. Hopefully you have taken the post motorcycle saftey DDC class and you had on all of your protective gear. That DDC class is what can get you caught if if you havent taken it. I got nicked comming out of Atlanta headed back to Ft Benning. Actually i didnt get caught in the act, but i stopped at a gas station about 30 mins l8r and an officer pulled up and told me they were lookin for me up the rd. I just got yelled at, but the situation varies.

rokitt51 · 08-23-2008, 12:43 AM

I just noticed that you are in P'cola, I was TDY there for a while.

93CB750 · 08-23-2008, 1:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatever

but the fries in the bank teller drive up tube is a different story.

awesome

lanbrown · 08-23-2008, 1:35 AM

Let the LEO put it in writing and then file a complaint against him. He lied and that should be reflected in his file.

Oh, don't mention your speed unless you are asked directly how fast you were going. I would just use the term cruising down the road when the cop blew by you to catch mike that dropped the hammer. If Mike was doing 126MPH and the cop by you to catch him, you couldn't have been going the same speed. See what your CO says.

swoop1156 · 08-23-2008, 7:17 AM

Thanks everyone, for taking the time to reply to this.

I will definitely keep you up to date on what happens Monday.

Jaranden · 08-24-2008, 5:44 AM

Had the same thing happen to me about a year and some change ago. Ask your command if there's been a ticket posted or a report filed, because until there is, it's just some cop trying to make trouble. And -of course- you had your reflective equipment on. Make sure all your affairs in order, the MSF class, the annual bike inspection, whatever. You may want to ask your first line to be standing by outside for backup, if that's not already been done. As long as you aren't a dirtbag they should just give you an ass chewing and then let you go. And get your bike off post! They can only ground you from riding on post.

Maholli · 08-24-2008, 5:51 AM

So did your buddy get pulled over? Was a ticket issued for either one of you? Was the trooper running with his lights and siren when he passed you?

swoop1156 · 08-24-2008, 9:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaranden

Had the same thing happen to me about a year and some change ago. Ask your command if there's been a ticket posted or a report filed, because until there is, it's just some cop trying to make trouble. And -of course- you had your reflective equipment on. Make sure all your affairs in order, the MSF class, the annual bike inspection, whatever. You may want to ask your first line to be standing by outside for backup, if that's not already been done. As long as you aren't a dirtbag they should just give you an ass chewing and then let you go. And get your bike off post! They can only ground you from riding on post.

My bike is at home, parked for the time being. I had all my gear on, I'm a safe rider! At this point, all there REALLY is, is a cop called the command and "said" that all this happened. Unless they provide video, it's really all hear-say and speculation -- and our word, which apparently means nothing these days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maholli

So did your buddy get pulled over? Was a ticket issued for either one of you? Was the trooper running with his lights and siren when he passed you?

My buddy was pulled over. Was NOT given any tickets. The trooper was running his lights, no siren.

submarine · 08-24-2008, 2:48 PM

Isn't there a UCMJ attorney you can speak to? I think you might need to be informed of what rights you have before you speak to 'the man'.

I don't see why you should have been expected to pull over if the officer did nothing to signal you that you were being pulled over. I know in AZ the law for 'felony flight' depends on you being aware that the police are trying to pull you over. We just had one rider acquitted after it was proved in court that he wasn't aware an officer was behind him for over a mile. It was questionable whether the lights/siren was on because other traffic including cross traffic did not pull over. Also, the rider had ipod ear buds in and was concentrating on construction in front that had 3 lanes condensing into one lane.

Your 'buddy' is a real Blue Falcon huh?

whatever · 08-24-2008, 3:00 PM

UCMJ will provide help after 'the man' does something. Whether it is punishment under UCMJ (doubful without proof of crime) or a letter of reprimand, the UCMJ almost forces a trip to legal for advice. If it becomes a counseling statement, legal advice is not needed since it is just counseling. What is your rank? A counseling statement is used for lower enlisted whereas letters of reprimand are normally used for E6 and above. The letters are no big deal, but the filing of them IS which is where legal comes in. If it filed locally, then it is erased once you change from that command. If it is filed permanently, then it follows you. Normally, these letters are filed locally (again-no big deal) as a strong counseling statement and if you get into more trouble, they can make it permanent. Once you receive a letter, you go to legal for advice and help in preparing a letter of rebuttal basically admitting to something and stating what you have done to correct it or to ensure it does not happen again and stating why is should be filed locally. My last letter included an apology to the fry receiver at the bank

. You are normally given 5-10 days for the rebuttal. You cannot receive a letter and have it filed without seeking legal advice.

swoop1156 · 08-24-2008, 3:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by submarine

Isn't there a UCMJ attorney you can speak to? I think you might need to be informed of what rights you have before you speak to 'the man'.

I don't see why you should have been expected to pull over if the officer did nothing to signal you that you were being pulled over. I know in AZ the law for 'felony flight' depends on you being aware that the police are trying to pull you over. We just had one rider acquitted after it was proved in court that he wasn't aware an officer was behind him for over a mile. It was questionable whether the lights/siren was on because other traffic including cross traffic did not pull over. Also, the rider had ipod ear buds in and was concentrating on construction in front that had 3 lanes condensing into one lane.

Your 'buddy' is a real Blue Falcon huh?

Hah! I haven't heard the Blue Falcon term for the Bravo Foxtrot, yet! That's great, I'm gonna use that. Yeah, I had absolutely NO inclination that I had to pull over, nor did I even need to. If he wanted me to, he should have pulled alongside me or at least hit his siren while behind me and then I would have no problem. He whizzed by me by at least 40-50mph on top of mine. Never even had the time to turn my head to look in the window.

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatever

UCMJ will provide help after 'the man' does something. Whether it is punishment under UCMJ (doubful without proof of crime) or a letter of reprimand, the UCMJ almost forces a trip to legal for advice. If it becomes a counseling statement, legal advice is not needed since it is just counseling. What is your rank? A counseling statement is used for lower enlisted whereas letters of reprimand are normally used for E6 and above. The letters are no big deal, but the filing of them IS which is where legal comes in. If it filed locally, then it is erased once you change from that command. If it is filed permanently, then it follows you. Normally, these letters are filed locally (again-no big deal) as a strong counseling statement and if you get into more trouble, they can make it permanent. Once you receive a letter, you go to legal for advice and help in preparing a letter of rebuttal basically admitting to something and stating what you have done to correct it or to ensure it does not happen again and stating why is should be filed locally. My last letter included an apology to the fry receiver at the bank

. You are normally given 5-10 days for the rebuttal. You cannot receive a letter and have it filed without seeking legal advice.

Thanks for this! I am an E5 up for E6. Never had one big of legal trouble in the Navy or my entire life. This is going to be my first trip to "the man", and it's not even Captains Mast...if it goes that far. They just want me posted outside of the Chief's Mess with my paperwork for the bike, my MSF card, etc etc. Didn't tell me to bring in any gear. Also, they advised me to stay off the bike until this is done, but I have half a mind to ride in tomorrow! Nah, not gonna do that.

If I get a counseling, I'm sure they'll file it permanently and I will do the rebuttal and see if I can get it locally. I just got picked up for a "sensitive" position within the DoD and I don't want to lose that.

Thanks for sticking with and rooting for me, guys. It's well appreciated.

whatever · 08-27-2008, 10:05 PM

update?

did you get your bike AND bike forum taken away?

swoop1156 · 08-27-2008, 10:47 PM

There is no update as of yet, sorry to leave you all hanging.

I have my XOI -- Executive Officer Instruction, tomorrow. He can either throw out the case like it never happened, or he can send me to see the Commanding Officer at Captain's Mast, which is an automatic Non-Judicial Punishment in my record. XOI is NOT recorded in any records.

I have a [hopeful] good feeling that this will be tossed out in XOI after a stern talking to and humiliation, but we will see.

It's tomorrow at 2pm, Central Time. Tune in! lol. I wish.

I'll update this as to what happens. if I never reply back to this thread, then they carted my ass off someplace.

I doubt that, however.

Please all, wish me luck!

whatever · 09-05-2008, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swoop1156

I'll update this as to what happens. if I never reply back to this thread, then they carted my ass off someplace.

so....your ass was carted off someplace?

swoop1156 · 09-05-2008, 11:52 PM

Fortunately, no. I had eye surgery on Tuesday and have not been on the computer until tonight. It's been hell trying to play catch-up.

It went to the XO, to make a long story short. it went to the XO and he looked in my record and saw that I've never ever had any problems in my career and basically let it doe. Whew, good thing too.

He said that the CO heard wind of something going on with some bikers in the command and wanted in on them, since he is a biker, but the XO killed it and there is no more mention of it.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts!

lanbrown · 09-08-2008, 7:05 PM

Did you learn anything? Don't ride with that "buddy" again.

swoop1156 · 09-08-2008, 7:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lanbrown

Did you learn anything? Don't ride with that "buddy" again.

I have learned alot from this issue. Many people are telling me that same thing, not to ride with "Mike" again. Maybe I should listen to them. I think I just may.

lanbrown · 09-09-2008, 1:08 AM

If Mike likes to run, you are guilty by association and I doubt for XO will let it slide a second time. You had a clean record and now you have on paper a clean record but in reality you don't. Let Mike take his own career with him, not yours.

jhonda41 · 09-09-2008, 2:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lanbrown

If Mike likes to run, you are guilty by association and I doubt for XO will let it slide a second time. You had a clean record and now you have on paper a clean record but in reality you don't. Let Mike take his own career with him, not yours.

Running is one (stupid) thing, but dropping a name and license plate number is totally different. I got pulled over for lane splitting once(many many moons ago) and the cop was busting my balls about "my buddy." I told him I never met the guy and I just happened to be next to him.

Even if they threatened to ticket/impound me I wouldn't have given him up... and my buddy would have gladly split the fine with me had I actually been ticketed.

I hope you learned your lessone with "Mike"...Thats why I make it a point not to ride with potential runners or anyone I dont know for that matter.

-jh