[firedawgon929]

Interesting story. Take it with a grain of salt, I don't know how accurate it is. Another email making the rounds of the AF system.
____

Why We Keep Digging.


Amazing What You Find When You Dig Long Enough! NewsMax.com has obtained exclusive photos of a buried Iraqi jet
fighter being recovered by U.S. Air Force troops. The Iraqi jet, an advanced Russian MiG-25 Foxbat, was found buried in

the sand after an informant tipped off U.S. troops.

The MiG was dug out of a massive sand dune near the Al Taqqadum airfield by U.S. Air Force recovery teams. The MiG

was reportedly one of over two dozen Iraqi jets buried in the sand, like hidden treasure, waiting to be > recovered at a later date.


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Contrary to what some in the major media have reported, not all the jets found were from the Gulf War era.


The Russian-made MiG-25 Foxbat being recovered by U.S. Air Force troops in the photos is an advanced reconnaissance

version never before seen in the West and is equipped with sophisticated electronic warfare devices.

U.S. Air Force recovery teams had to use large earth-moving equipment to uncover the MiG, which is over 70 feet long and weighs

nearly 25 tons.

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The Foxbat is known to be one of Iraq's top jet fighters. The advanced electronic reconnaissance version found by the U.S. Air Force

is currently in service with the Russian air force. The MiG is capable of flying at speeds of over 2,000 miles an hour, or three times the
speed of sound, and at altitudes of over 75,000 feet.

The recovery of the advanced MiG fighter is considered to be an intelligence coup by the U.S. Air Force. The Foxbat may also be
equipped with advanced Russian and French made electronics that were sold to Iraq during the 1990s in violation of a U.N. ban on

arms sales to Baghdad.

The buried aircraft at Al Taqqadum were covered in camouflage netting, sealed and, in many cases, had their wings removed before being
buried more than 10 feet beneath the Iraqi desert.

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X Marks the Spot


The discovery of the buried Iraqi jet fighters illustrates the problem faced by U.S. inspection teams searching Iraq for weapons of mass
destruction.. Iraq is larger in size than California, and the massive deserts south and west of Baghdad were used by Saddam Hussein to

hide weapons during the first Gulf war.

U.S. intelligence sources have already uncovered several mass grave burial sites in the open deserts with an estimated 10,000 dead hidden

there. In addition, Iraq previously hid SCUD missiles, chemical weapons and biological warheads by burying them under the desert sand.

U.N. inspection teams found the weapons in the early 1990s after detailed information of the exact locations was obtained.

Top U.S. weapons inspector Dr. David Kay is known to favor human intelligence as the primary means to find Iraq's hidden treasure trove of
weapons and secrets.


While there are rumors of Iraqi chemical and biological weapons being shipped to nearby Syria, the weapons may very well still remain inside
Iraq buried under the vast desert wastelands.

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Some critics of the Bush administration have claimed that the inability of U.S. forces to uncover weapons of mass destruction is proof that the
president misled the nation into the war with Iraq.

However, in recent days the critics have fallen silent as word quietly leaked from Iraq that major discoveries have already been made and are
now being documented completely. Bush administration officials are keeping any such discoveries secret for the moment.


Submitted by a former 1stLt. USMC

[Dubs]

Very Interesting indeed!!

See: Advanced Russian fighters found in the sand in Iraq-Truth!

Many planes uncovered in 2003 - what else is out there? ARE YOU SURE??

[ConqSoft]

Snopes too: Urban Legends Reference Pages: (Sand Trap)

[jaim]

I heard that they found a large circular object buried in the sand in Iraq. The device was rumored to be gateway to other worlds by means of a connective worm hole to similar objects on far away planets.

[Maholli]

Originally Posted by jaim

I heard that they found a large circular object buried in the sand in Iraq. The device was rumored to be gateway to other worlds by means of a connective worm hole to similar objects on far away planets.

Or maybe they finally found that missing WMD...

[denzee]

Originally Posted by Maholli

Or maybe they finally found that missing WMD...

Interestingly enough Maholli on that topic of WMDs, I read where Saddam's interogator George Piro who talked to him every day became quite good friends with him. His job of course was to get information from him. Saddam claims he only said he had WMD to keep Iran from invading him. He felt that if Iran thought he had Nuclear and Chemical weapons, they wouldn't ever attack. He pushed it a little too far though I think.

[Maholli]

Saddam got rid of whatever WMD he had in the late 90's during the Clinton administration.. But I better not get to off topic in this thread.. After all the original topic was about some 20 year old Foxbat.. Not too advanced as far as im concerned.. Which Im aware it did have some advanced radar.. But the foxbat was orginally designed to intercept that US bombers the could go super-sonic.. It will hit mach 3 i believe.. But thats all its good for, to go fast straight.. Its a big non mobile intercepter..

[denzee]

Didn't realize you were such a plane guy as I am too Maholli. I like military old and new as well as commercial airliners. Getting back to those Foxbats, I'm sure they wouldn't be airworthy anyways without some work but it does definitely show how anything can be hidden away for sure, including WMDs.

[Maholli]

I try to keep my past military experiences out of most topics because I didn't want anyone to think I was biased towards the US military which i went into after going to college( 8 years in)... lets just say I've had my gold wings and leave it at that.. But as far as the foxbat is concerned its an ancient relic of the old USSR fleet.. I would rather have an SU-37 thats a bad machine.. the thrust vectoring on that baby is awsome..

[BDA116]

What SU-37? You mean the Su-35 that was fitted with test engines for thrust vectoring demonstrations? The single plane that later had those engines removed because it didn't pan out? The same plane that was eventually destroyed?
That's the only "SU-37" that has ever existed.

The Raptor would have eaten that test plane for lunch anyway, jsut as it would any other SU-27 based plane, which the SU-35 was.
The SU-35 wasn't really ever put into deployment, and the SU-27 has been downed by F-15s on more than one occasion.

As for the plane, it is very old news, but just simply having that plane in its arsenal with the avionics upgrades it had was against U.N. resolutions.
It WAS a big deal for them to have that plane and the others like it.

But what the whole saga really represents is the fact that Iraq's entire stock of Anthrax could fit in a large suitcase. A large suitcase could easily be hidden anywhere if multiple fighter jets can be right under your feet for months without your knowledge.
And no, the entire stock of WMDs was NOT destroyed during Clinton's regime reign. Simply an outright fabrication, seeing as how we HAVE discovered WMDs in Iraq.

[Maholli]

While never put into production the Su-37 not Su-35 was put on display in

1996 Farnborough air show and its a pretty awsome machine.. I wasn't comparing these planes to any of the US planes..


"The Su-37 is a single-seat, all-weather, fighter and ground attack prototype aircraft, derived from the Su-27 'Flanker'. The Su-27 is a Russian fourth generation jet aircraft that has been exported to over 20 nations. The Su-37 test aircraft made its maiden flight in April 1996 from the Zhukovsky flight testing center near Moscow. The Su-37 is referred to as the Terminator.[1]
The Su-37 includes several updates over the Su-27, including all-weather multi-mode passive electronically scanned array radar with synthetic aperture, terrain avoidance, terrain mapping and a rear facing radar. The airframe includes a percentage of parts made from composites, unlike the all-metal Su-27. Additionally, the Su-37 incorporates the AL-37FU engines equipped with thrust vectoring. The Su-37’s nozzles are variable in pitch only and travel plus or minus 15 degrees, but they can be operated differentially to provide a rolling moment. The aircraft is also the first Russian aircraft with Hands On Throttle and Stick, or HOTAS, system. The Su-37 also stores a radar in the tailcone of the plane that allows it to fire missiles behind the plane.
The engine not only incorporates 2D TVC but also is tough and resistant to engine surge even during classic, inverted and flat spins, giving better reliability and maneuverability, such as when the AOA is as high as 180 degrees.
The Su-37 appeared at the 1996 Farnborough air show piloted by Sukhoi test pilot Eugeny Frolov. During the performance, the Su-37 was flipped on its back while flying at 350 km/h/217 mph so that it faced the opposite direction, inverted and almost stationary. After pausing for two seconds the thrust vectoring was used to complete a 360 degree rotation and the aircraft moved off in its original direction of flight at only 60 km/h/37 mph.
The Su-37 can carry air-to-air and air-to-surface weapons on 12 stations. The number of missiles and bombs carried can be increased to 14 with the use of multi-payload racks.
Russia has not ordered Su-37s, but it might find customers abroad, a market that now constitutes a sizable share of Sukhoi’s income. Several prototypes have been built, but the aircraft is not in production."


Information courtesy of airforce-technology

[Maholli]

SU-37 pics courtesy of Global Aircraft -- Su-37 Flanker

[BDA116]

There was only ONE "SU-37" ever made. Ever. It was an Su-35 fitted with test engines, and was a demonstration plane, period.
It didn't work out as they hoped, so they removed the thrust vector-equipped engines and then destroyed it.
It was never anything else.
Both the Su-35, that was never deployed, and the single "SU-37" (not even it's real name, it was just serial number 711 of the SU-35 test types) are simply evolutions of the SU-27. All were built off that platform. The Soviet Union didn't have the money to keep playing with completely new platforms.
And at least link or state whom you are plagarising.
Su-37
No, there aren't more than one prototype SU-37 in existence. Only one ever, and it hasn't existed for many years. Sukhoi only keeps the hopes of reviving it alive by trying to entice China, who has their own aircraft they would rather build.

[Maholli]

Sukhoi is still marketing this plane, my information comes from the Air Force so I will stick to what I know and you can stick to what you know.. We can agree to disagree.. While I agree its based alot on the SU 35... There where 3 prototypes made from my information..

u-37 All-Weather Fighter Aircraft, Russia

The Su-37 multi-role, all-weather fighter aircraft demonstrator is the latest member of a family of aircraft based on the Su-27, which was developed in 1977 by the Sukhoi Experimental Design Bureau in Moscow and is in service with the Russian Air Force and a number of other countries. This family also includes the Su-27UB, Su-30, Su-33, Su-32FN and Su-35, and has the NATO codename Flanker.
The new feature of the super-manoeuvrable Su-37 fighter is the two-dimensional thrust vector control engines, which allow the aircraft to recover from spins and stalls at almost any altitude, while it is also equipped with full digital fly-by-wire controls.
The first flight of the Su-37 prototype was in April 1996, with a public appearance at the Mosaero show. This was followed by a demonstration flight at the Farnborough show in 1996. The aircraft demonstrated new maneuvres, such as the ability to point the nose away from direction of flight for sustained periods, rotating the nose through 360 degrees and recovering from tail slide by rolling into an entirely different plane. State funding for the aircraft was withdrawn for a time, but it was restored in 1999 and Su-37 is undergoing flight testing.
COCKPIT
The cockpit is fitted with four liquid crystal displays for tactical and navigation data, onboard system monitors, and operating conditions control panel. The pilot has a side short-travel control stick instead of a central stick, an avionics control handle and strain-gauging (pressure-to-throttle) engine thrust controls. Avionics for the aircraft will be produced by Kronstadt, St Petersburg.
WEAPONS The Su-37 can carry up to 14 air-to-air missiles and up to 8000kg of ordnance. The twelve external hardpoints can carry air-to-air missiles, air-to-surface missiles, bombs, rockets and an ECM (electronic countermeasures) pod. The aircraft is fitted with one GSh-301 30mm gun with a maximum rate of fire of 1,500 rounds per minute.
The aircraft can be equipped with Vympel R-73E short-range air-to-air missiles with infrared terminal homing and RVV-AE long-range air-to-air missiles with active radar guidance. R-73E (NATO codename AA-11 Archer) is an all-aspect, close-combat missile capable of engaging targets in tail-chase or head-on mode at altitudes between 0.02 and 20km, and target g-load to 12g. The Vympel RVV-AE (AA-12 Adder) air-to-air missile, also known as the RR-77, can intercept targets at speeds up to 3,600kph and altitudes from 0.02 to 25km.
The Su-37 can be fitted with air-to-surface missiles such as the Kh-25 (AS-12 Kegler) short-range missile and Kh-29 (AS-14 Kedge) with a 317kg penetrating warhead.
SENSORS The aircraft is fitted with a multifunction, forward-looking, NO-11M pulse Doppler phased array radar, which can track up to 15 targets simultaneously and provide target designation and guidance to air-to-air missiles. NO-11M is manufactured by NIIP, the Tikhomirov Scientific Research Institute of Instrument Design. There is also a rear-looking NIIP NO-12 radar and optronic fire-control and surveillance system.
There are also systems for terrain-following and terrain-avoidance, mapping and multichannel employment of guided weapons.
ENGINES
The Su-37 is powered by two AL-31FU TVC (thrust vector control) turbofan engines. This engine was developed by the Lyulka Engine Design Bureau (NPO Saturn) and is a derivative of the AL-31F twin-shaft turbofan engine on the Su-27. The modular design includes a four-stage, low-pressure (LP) compressor, nine-stage, high-pressure (HP) compressor, annular combustion chamber and single-stage LP and HP turbines, afterburner and mixer. Each engine provides 83.36kN thrust and 142kN with the afterburner and is steerable from 15 to +15 degrees along the vertical plane.

The thrust vector control is fully integrated into the digital flight control system. The TVC nozzle can be deflected both synchronously and differentially, depending on manoeuvre. The nozzle is connected to the annular swivel and can be moved in the pitch plane by two pairs of hydraulic jacks. The thrust vector control allows manoeuvres at speeds nearing zero without angle-of-attack limitations. The vectoring controls can be operated manually by the pilot or automatically by the flight control system.


Dimensions
aircraft length 22.18 m
wing span 14.7 m
Height 6.43 m
Performance
maximum flight speed near ground 1,400 km/hr at altitude2,500 km/hr
maximum rate of climb at sea level 230 m/sec
maximum air-to-air missiles carried 14
maximum weight of ordnance 8000 kg
flight range3 800 km range with 1 mid-air refuelling6,500 km
service ceiling 18,000 m
runway length 1200 m
Weight
Empty 8,500 kg
max take off 34000kg

Information courtesy of airforce-technology

[Maholli]

"Chief Designer of the Su-37 is Vladimir Konokhov and he has made a point to explain that despite the similarities with the Su-35, the Su-37 represents a new capability utilizing TVC and the new N-011M radar that simultaneously surveys both air and ground space while being tied into a high-precision laser-inertial / GPS navigation system. The electronically scanned phased-array radar will be traditionally positioned in the nose of the Su-37 which is also being redesigned to accommodate the fixed antenna array and more avionics boxes."



Quote from aviation week

[Maholli]

This plane will compete with the eurofighter, f-22 and the joint strike fighter..

Sukhoi
Su-47
(S-37 Berkut)
ASCC codename: Firkin
Advanced Fighter Prototype

"Originally known as the S-37, Sukhoi redesignated its advanced test aircraft as the Su-47 in 2002. The change reflected the company's decision to market the design as a production fighter rather than as an experimental prototype. Also commonly referred to as the Berkut (Golden Eagle), the Su-47 was originally built as Russia's principle testbed for composite materials and sophisticated fly-by-wire control systems. The aircraft makes use of forward-swept wings allowing superb maneuverability and operation at angles of attack up to 45° or more. The advantages of forward sweep have long been known as such wings offer lower wave drag, reduced bending moments, and delayed stall when compared to more traditional wing shapes. Unfortunately, forward sweep also induces twisting strong enough to rip the wings off an aircraft built of conventional materials. To solve this problem, the Su-47 makes use of composite materials carefully tailored to resist twisting while still allowing the wing to bend for improved aerodynamic behavior. To reduce development costs, the S-37 borrowed the forward fuselage, vertical tails, and landing gear of the Su-27 family. Nonetheless, the aircraft includes reduced radar signature features (including radar absorbent materials), an internal weapons bay, and space set aside for an advanced radar. Though similar in overall concept to the American X-29 research aircraft of the 1980s, the Su-47 is about twice the size and far closer to an actual combat aircraft than the US design. Like the X-29 though, the S-37 was primarily a technology demonstrator, one intended to lay the foundation for the next Russian fighter. Such a fighter must not only be as advanced as the US F-22 and Eurofighter Typhoon, but must also compete for funding with the more conventional MiG 1-42. However, Sukhoi is now attempting to market the Su-47 to the Russian military and foreign customers as a production fighter in its own right. Initial reaction was not good, but the aircraft's performance has been so impressive that the Russian government has made funds available for further testing of the design.
Recent reports have suggested that the Su-47 will most likely be used as a technology testbed for Russia's "5th Generation" fighter, which is seen as a competitor to the American Joint Strike Fighter. However, Sukhoi has apparently decided to abandon the forward-swept wings of the S-37, and any future production model will return to a more conventional wing layout. If true, Sukhoi may have reached the same conclusion as NASA did following testing of the X-29 that the benefits of forward-swept wings are just not worth the extra cost and complexity associated with their design and manufacture."

Information courtesy of airforce-technology

[BDA116]

The 47 is a completely different aircraft.
Seriously, get some real history on the thing from Sukhoi themselves.
And if you are using official Air Force data, it is old, because that isn't what is currently held data.

Look, the 37 isn't similar to a 35. It IS a 35. Test plane #711, the only difference between 711 and the others was the engines that were fitted with a test thrust vectoring capability.
It was destroyed, no others were ever built. I know you like to think you are right on everything, but just as with many bike references, you are wrong here as well.
The 47 is a nice pipe dream for them as well, but they simply don't have the dollars to build it yet.
And them thinking they will woo the Chinese is laughable at best. Like klinton, they idiotically gave the Chinese sensitive secrets. But even worse, they licensed the Chinese to build the 27, which is what ALL of them are built off of. The Chinese have reverse engineered everything and are now developing and building their own aircraft. There simply aren't enough countries with enough money to have Sukhoi get any further then some testing on their old-tech planes.
And while the 47 is a new platform, it still takes a ton from the 27, which is almost as old as the F-15. They are behind again, this time far behind.

And still, even after all that, you continue to plagiarise from websites without any notation or link.
I know you desperately want to be right on this, but you aren't.
The 37 was nothing more than a 35 airframe (which in itself is just a modified 27) with special engines used for testing and demonstration. Those are cold, hard facts. Their thrust vectoring avionics were very crude and it took a very skilled pilot with a ton of practice to perform those maneuvers.
It was interesting to watch, but in reality wasn't all that special.


You may think you are a plane buff, but this has proven you really don't know what or whom you are up against.

[BDA116]

You know what? I'm done with this.
Seriously, people that have no desire to learn are people I have no desire to communicate with.
You can own this thread. You know all about military fighters. You are the only person that has ever had any experience with Air Force personnel past or present.

[Bigdaddy75]

There is a lot of controversy in Australia right now abut the JSF. it's been reported that there is a very real chance Australia will lose it's air superiority
over the next few years.. Joint Strike Fighter Is Not Flawed Finds Australian Government

[Maholli]

Im love to learn BDA.. I just go by what I have read as im sure you do too, unless you have inside connections with Sukhoi, just because I disagree with you doesn't mean anything.. Never said I was a plane buff.. And I was just showing the 47 for other people who read this thread.. If someone has a different opinion than yours your quick to basically put them down.. Where are you getting your facts? You have some inside channels into Russia's very secret millitary dealings, or China's? I've never said you didn't know what your talking about just because you disagreed with me.. How many military planes have you flown? "You know all about military fighters. You are the only person that has ever had any experience with Air Force personnel past or present" When did I ever say this? It just I believe what I believe... I don't want to own any thread... Just tell me where your getting your facts so I can learn and understand where your getting your info...


Your really good at personal attacks also..

[Maholli]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy75

There is a lot of controversy in Australia right now abut the JSF. it's been reported that there is a very real chance Australia will lose it's air superiority
over the next few years.. Joint Strike Fighter Is Not Flawed Finds Australian Government

Seems like everyone claims there plane is better than the others.. Like everything else in life there will always be something bigger and better..

[denzee]

There is a lot of great fighter jets but just as in motorcycle riding, the pilot plays a huge role. That where the US, Israelis, British and Canadians really excel. Pilot training and advanced avionics will beat out even a superior fighter jet based on performance only. This is where the Russians and many other Air Forces fall short. At an Air Show in Hamilton Ontario I saw a Polish Air Force pilot land his Mig 29, taxi near the static display and get out. They had to bring a ladder over and the pilot looked like a bum, sorry to say. Beat up uniform, long hair and unshaven. Then the Mig sat there on the tarmac leaking fuel and it was a mess too! Compare that to the profeesional US and Canadian pilots. It was laughable.