[Bacchus]

This is a really off-the-wall email I recently received. Sorta thought provoking . Any thoughts?

<Interesting ......

At about the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution,
in the year 1787, Alexander Tyler (a Scottish history professor at The
University of Edinburgh) had this to say about "The Fall of The Athenian
Republic" some 2,000 years prior.

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a
permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up
until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves
generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the
majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits
from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will
finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed
by a dictatorship."

"The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning
of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these
nations always progressed through the following sequence:
From Bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage."

Olson believes the U.S. is now somewhere between the "apathy" and
"complacency" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy; with
some 40 percent of the nation's population already having reached the
"governmental dependency" phase.>

[Tavish]

I see nothing

[Bacchus]

Let me try it another way.

[Bacchus]

OK, here goes...

edit: now I'm getting pissed! I will type it in - give me a few...

<Interesting ......

At about the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution,
in the year 1787, Alexander Tyler (a Scottish history professor at The
University of Edinburgh) had this to say about "The Fall of The Athenian
Republic" some 2,000 years prior.

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a
permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up
until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves
generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the
majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits
from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will
finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed
by a dictatorship."

"The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning
of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these
nations always progressed through the following sequence:
From Bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage."

Olson believes the U.S. is now somewhere between the "apathy" and
"complacency" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy; with
some 40 percent of the nation's population already having reached the
"governmental dependency" phase.>

[Tavish]

Reply to his thread and you can see the article, only if you reply using the quote reply thingy though....weird...stop breaking Conq's site!!

[nomad]

Take out any "greater than" signs in the text.

[nomad]

At about the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution,
in the year 1787, Alexander Tyler (a Scottish history professor at The
University of Edinburgh) had this to say about "The Fall of The Athenian
Republic" some 2,000 years prior.

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a
permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up
until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves
generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the
majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits
from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will
finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed
by a dictatorship."

"The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning
of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these
nations always progressed through the following sequence:
From Bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage."

Olson believes the U.S. is now somewhere between the "apathy" and
"complacency" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy; with
some 40 percent of the nation's population already having reached the
"governmental dependency" phase.

[Bacchus]

Here...

And I certainly don't profess to endorse this (need to mull it over a lot longer), but it is interesting.




At about the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution, in the year 1787, Alexander Tyler (a Scottish history professor at The University of Edinburgh) had this to say about "The Fall of The Athenian Republic" some 2,000 years prior.

"A democracy is always temporary in nature, it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship".

The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage.

Olson (whoever he is?) now believes that the U.S. is now somewhere between the "apathy" and "complacency" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some 40% of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

edit: just typed this damn thing out, and I see that others have already fixed the problem.

[Tavish]

For finally figuring it out

[nomad]

Sorry Bacchus... I tried to get it in before you did all the typing.

[Bacchus]

Hey! I was gone for awhile, OK?

[Tavish]

Originally Posted by Bacchus

Hey! I was gone for awhile, OK?

Excuses Excuses.....the old memory just isn't as good as it used to be eh?

[Bacchus]

Someone just please give this thread a lethal injection! :give****:

[RaggedEdge]

Those who know not their history are likely to repeat the mistakes of the past, to loosely paraphrase an old aphorism.
Everything seems to look okay, until all hell breaks loose. Are there enough historians among American politicians to stem the tide? Methinks not. Too many opportunists at the trough, say I, on both sides of the divide.

[Baketech]

The only thing interesting here is that you didn't include the entire email. It was really an expression of Olson's views using Tyler's theory as the backdrop. The fact that you surgically edited out Olson's assertions seems a bit disengenuous.....even if you are trolling.

How about posting the entire email without the editing and then we'll all discuss?

[Baketech]

Originally Posted by RaggedEdge

Those who know not their history are likely to repeat the mistakes of the past, to loosely paraphrase an old aphorism.
Everything seems to look okay, until all hell breaks loose. Are there enough historians among American politicians to stem the tide? Methinks not. Too many opportunists at the trough, say I, on both sides of the divide.

I am going to enjoy the comedic irony in this post once Bacchus comes clean and shows the unedited version....

[nhfirefighter13]

That doesn't apply to us as we are not a democracy. I'm sure you knew that though.

[BDA116]

Originally Posted by nhfirefighter13

That doesn't apply to us as we are not a democracy. I'm sure you knew that though.

That is but one fact that is lost on many.
Anyone care to recall exactly, according to the Constitution - before it was molested - how Represtentatives and Senators were to be selected, what their respective jobs are to be and whom they are to represent?

Now that the Constitution has been changed, a certain party only gets and keeps their jobs through this very theory.

Because it was changed and Congressmen are selected in a way never intended, they can use their scare tactics to get their job. Promise more entitlements - such as Medicare, Social Security, tax 'cuts' for those that don't pay taxes, etc. - while at the same time using lies and half truths saying the other party will destroy all the entitlments they own and deserve - which they truly neither own nor deserve.

[Baketech]

Ummm....best wait til you see the original email....our friend Bacchus is trying to pull a fast one...

[Bacchus]

Originally Posted by Baketech

Ummm....best wait til you see the original email....our friend Bacchus is trying to pull a fast one...

Not holding anything back This is the all the verbage that was included in the email. But I did figure it to be good trolling fodder, and wasn't disappointed - it brought out at least a couple of the "usual suspects"

[Baketech]

Didn't you wonder how the name "Olson" just magically appears in your version....

Here is what the email looked like prior to the NeoLiberal editing....

The author makes some interesting point about the
path this country is taking. Bush is trying to reverse this course, but those
dependent on the state have discovered how to use their power in the system.

At about the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution, in
the year 1787, Alexander Tyler (a Scottish history professor at The
University of Edinburgh) had this to say about "The Fall of The Athenian
Republic" some 2,000 years prior.

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a
permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until
the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts
from the public treasury.

From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who
promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that
every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, (which is)
always followed by a dictatorship."

"The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of
history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations
always progressed through the following sequence:

From Bondage to spiritual faith - From spiritual faith to great
courage - From courage to liberty - From liberty to abundance -
From abundance to complacency and hedonism - From complacency and
hedonism to apathy - From apathy to dependence - From dependence
back into bondage."

Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul,
Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the most recent
Presidential election:

Population of counties won by:
Gore=127 million
Bush=143 million

Square miles of land won by:
Gore=580,000
Bush=2,2427,000

States won by:
Gore=19
Bush=29

Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:
Gore=13.2
Bush=2.1

Professor Olson adds, "In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was
mostly the land owned by the tax-paying citizens of this great country.
Gores territory encompassed a much larger concentration of those citizens
living in government-owned tenements and living off government welfare..."

Olson believes the U.S. is now somewhere between the "apathy" and
"complacency" phase of Professor Tylers definition of democracy; with
some 40 percent of the nations population already having reached the
"governmental dependency" phase.

[luvtolean]

From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who
promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that
every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, (which is)
always followed by a dictatorship."

What is the historical precedant for saying "always"?

[Baketech]

I'm not defending the statements.....just wanted to make sure they were posted in their entirety.....without biased editing...

[luvtolean]

I figured as much, but I really don't know if there is one. Couldn't think of one, but maybe there has been a republic that has fallen and went to dictatorship. Certainly none has had a system like ours.