[alexandra]

This was during Bush's visit here on Tuesday.

KNIL

[ND4SPD]

[zenblader]

Originally Posted by alexandra

This was during Bush's visit here on Tuesday.

KNIL

Uh... I'd be a little more impressed if he wasn't looking straight into the nearest camera. I'd also be impressed, and change my opinion of him if he'd openly address the outrageous increases in tuition cost, admit that global warming is a reality (just ask the people living in the new midwest "desert") regardless of whether it is "our" fault or not and that greenhouse gas emissions must be drastically cut NOW. I'd be impressed if he openly addressed the fact that kids out of college are unable to find work unless they want to relocate to China, Mexico, India, etc and work for $5 an hour. And if you think this isn't happening I will refer you to my brother who manages eight tanning salons in LA. He has engineering graduates, business degree holders all hounding him for $8-10 an hour jobs. I'd be impressed if Bush actually would do something to secure the future for kids like this little girl. Talk is cheap and so are hugs in front of cameras. Clinton hugged half the people in this country but I doubt he got many thumbs up from members on this board.

[luvtolean]

Regardless of his performance as Pres (which I think is mediocre at best, but far less damaging than others could be), I do believe this was genuine.

People far more educated and knowledgable on the subject than myself tell me greenhouse gases are the least of our concerns. Based on my engineering education, I believe them. It is also fair to say IF there is warming occuring, we have absolutely no idea why...the earth has gone through many cycles of heating and cooling.

I am not a socialist, therefore I do not believe it is the responsibility of the government to provide jobs, only to meddle in business only when necessary and allow it to run its course. We are on the dawn of a new reality and it hurts. Time to redefine what we do in America, and it's not going to be manufacturing of cheap goods.

One thing I would like to see Bush do is take on the oil companies like Carter and examine a windfall tax. IMO, oil is infrastructure, we must have it, and therefore, I do not like the economy falling whim to Chevron stock holder's decisions.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by zenblader

Clinton hugged half the people in this country but I doubt he got many thumbs up from members on this board.

But he was only hugging them so he could rub his dick up against them.

[aussie_929]

Originally Posted by Pete

But he was only hugging them so he could rub his dick up against them.

First of all LOL pete! Second, what an obvious media grab moment.

[BDA116]

Media grab moment?
I guess if you call the fact that the only camera around was the father's little camera, and he snapped one single picture just as our President hugged his daughter, then sure it is. .
This was a sincere moment caught by the father standing right next to his daughter, nothing more.
Had it been a media grab, it would have been done in front of media cameras and the photo released by the White House.

As for the ourageous partisan extreme left wing crap posted by zenblader, the President has NO power over tuition costs, and tuition costs have been going up every year, regardless of President. In fact, they made huge jumps while the Arkansas disgrace was occupying the White House, but it wasn't an issue then. It only is now, because the whiners on the left are running out of things to whine about. They know tuition isn't a Presidential isuue and NEVER has been, but they want to make it one now, although the President has absolutely ZERO control over tuition costs.
Tuition costs are controlled by the universities and state legislators. Because of the outrageous demands of administration and tenured, unionized "professors", the tuition has had to skyrocket. And just whom do you think these wonderful idiots support? Yup, the dems, not reps.
Global warming? Puh-lease. There are something around 2 or 3 scientific reports showing global warming to be bunk for every one that tries to prop it up. The Earth goes through shifts all the time, and the affect we as humans have on the climate changes are negligible. Of course, he will never see the other side because the left has no interest in the truth, just what they can use to prop up their theories - so I won't even touch that load of crap.
Then of course the baseless jobs talk. College grads haven't been getting good jobs right out of school for a decade. I have seen college grads and degree holders getting burger jobs since 1992. The fact of the matter is that the President can only have a direct effect on jobs creation by himself two ways: creating new government entities and tax cuts. Bush has done both with the largest new government entity and tax cuts. The 3 million (started out at 2 million) 'jobs lost' that the kerryweenies like to decry are now gone. Yeah, that's right, more jobs have been created under Bush now than have been lost, because the PRIVATE SECTOR - where jobs are created - has been allowed to create them with the tax relief. But the left ALWAYS fail to mention facts.
Then of course there's the FACT that job creation over the next 6-8 years is gonna be dangerous to our economy anyway, without any Presidential input, which is why kerry want to hammer about it. Demos know they have never been responsible for the economic growth they inherit, and they have seen the reports, too. So he wants to claim responsibility for the massive jobs explosion on the horizon.
In a nutshell, the baby boomers are at retirement age, and the economy is starting to explode anyway. As the boomers retire and the economy continues to expand, there are many experts that are expecting the number of jobs to outnumber workers by 2012. Some even say 2010. That, my friends, will be more dangerous to us than a tiny unemployment number like 5.5%, and is why we need to import jobs from countries like India.

[zenblader]

Originally Posted by BDA116

Media grab moment?
I guess if you call the fact that the only camera around was the father's little camera, and he snapped one single picture just as our President hugged his daughter, then sure it is. .
This was a sincere moment caught by the father standing right next to his daughter, nothing more.
Had it been a media grab, it would have been done in front of media cameras and the photo released by the White House.

As for the ourageous partisan extreme left wing crap posted by zenblader, the President has NO power over tuition costs, and tuition costs have been going up every year, regardless of President. In fact, they made huge jumps while the Arkansas disgrace was occupying the White House, but it wasn't an issue then. It only is now, because the whiners on the left are running out of things to whine about. They know tuition isn't a Presidential isuue and NEVER has been, but they want to make it one now, although the President has absolutely ZERO control over tuition costs.
Tuition costs are controlled by the universities and state legislators. Because of the outrageous demands of administration and tenured, unionized "professors", the tuition has had to skyrocket. And just whom do you think these wonderful idiots support? Yup, the dems, not reps.
Global warming? Puh-lease. There are something around 2 or 3 scientific reports showing global warming to be bunk for every one that tries to prop it up. The Earth goes through shifts all the time, and the affect we as humans have on the climate changes are negligible. Of course, he will never see the other side because the left has no interest in the truth, just what they can use to prop up their theories - so I won't even touch that load of crap.
Then of course the baseless jobs talk. College grads haven't been getting good jobs right out of school for a decade. I have seen college grads and degree holders getting burger jobs since 1992. The fact of the matter is that the President can only have a direct effect on jobs creation by himself two ways: creating new government entities and tax cuts. Bush has done both with the largest new government entity and tax cuts. The 3 million (started out at 2 million) 'jobs lost' that the kerryweenies like to decry are now gone. Yeah, that's right, more jobs have been created under Bush now than have been lost, because the PRIVATE SECTOR - where jobs are created - has been allowed to create them with the tax relief. But the left ALWAYS fail to mention facts.
Then of course there's the FACT that job creation over the next 6-8 years is gonna be dangerous to our economy anyway, without any Presidential input, which is why kerry want to hammer about it. Demos know they have never been responsible for the economic growth they inherit, and they have seen the reports, too. So he wants to claim responsibility for the massive jobs explosion on the horizon.
In a nutshell, the baby boomers are at retirement age, and the economy is starting to explode anyway. As the boomers retire and the economy continues to expand, there are many experts that are expecting the number of jobs to outnumber workers by 2012. Some even say 2010. That, my friends, will be more dangerous to us than a tiny unemployment number like 5.5%, and is why we need to import jobs from countries like India.

BDA, I just don't know how a person who prides themselves on a knowledge base can be so blatantly one sided. Is that the way life works? You and your "facts" are always right and everyone who disagrees with you is spouting crap? I don't know why you haven't been translated already. You have obviously acheived a level of knowledge and judgement that rivals the divine.

The President has the power and the obligation to lead this country in a way that provides for the health, wealth and intellect of our children. He has the pulpit and can use it to further the cause of economic stability and educational opportunity. I remind you that Bush has had the luxury of working with a Republican controlled legislature.

Global Warming is a fact. The very typically human response by some that run counter to the majority of current science is reminiscent of the argument of flat earthers.

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by zenblader

Global Warming is a fact. The very typically human response by some that run counter to the majority of current science is reminiscent of the argument of flat earthers.

Global warming is fact. (actually I am not sure it is, but OK, I'll play along) But the cause is very much not understood. It is very probable that whether humans were or were not here the weather trends would be the same globally.

Not that this means we should throw our hands up and not worry about it, but there is no conclusive theory on the cause of global warming.

[zenblader]

..."The 3 million (started out at 2 million) 'jobs lost' that the kerryweenies like to decry are now gone. Yeah, that's right, more jobs have been created under Bush now than have been lost..."

Now that's just silly. I don't know where you get your "intell", but my guess is that Ann Coulter is one source. Whatever happened to the concept that the truth is usually found in the middle. Michael Moore and Ann Coulter are just two sides of an extremist coin. One is no more righteous than the other. They just muddy up the water so the rest of us are too numb and confused to actually give a damn. Anyone who believes that one side is always right and the other always wrong does more to illuminate their own ignorance than any topic in between. I wish you could find a way to engage a topic without disparaging those who may bring a different experience or knowledge base into the debate.

[zenblader]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Global warming is fact. But the cause is very much not understood. It is very probable that whether humans were or were not here the weather trends would be the same globally.

Not that this means we should throw our hands up and not worry about it, but there is no conclusive theory on the cause of global warming.

L2L,

Despite BD's assertions, if you look at "independent" scientific sources you see that the vast majority of climatologists agree that global warming is a fact. It is happening right now and the current readings show it rising faster than previously predicted. Even my grandma (89) who never learned to drive can stick her nose out the window and read a thermometer. She just clucks away and says "... This isn't right..." Duh! Double Duh!!
The only question now is, not as has been opined "whether" human pollution has contributed, but how much? My point is that it is ridiculous to think that the tons, millions of tons of pollution that finds it's way into the atmosphere does not make things worse. This countries' denial of the need for the Kyoto accord is a slap in the face of reality. It doesn't matter now who, or what is to blame. What matters now is to do everything we can to keep it from getting worse. Instead, like in other matters, the U.S. leadership, reacts only when they are forced to, and in some instances too late. I literally pray, and often, that we are not too late now. And that our leaders will come down off Denial Mountain and put our children's lives ahead of their own political and corporate leanings. This goes for Democrats as well as Republicans. However the fact, on record, that Bush, during his '00 campaign made the claim that TREES cause as much pollution as cars, shows the level of disconnect from reality this administration brings to the discussion.

[luvtolean]

You are using intuition in your statements about dumping "millions of tons of pollution". My scientific education taught me above all things that intuition is usually wrong.

Personally I don't think it's the real problem, but I hope it is as it is relatively easy to solve.

I think the real problem is thermal pollution. And that is not easy to solve.

Either way, you want to save the planet, learn Mandarin. Over there's the environmental disaster of the 21st century and it's just getting started.

[BDA116]

Originally Posted by zenblader

..."The 3 million (started out at 2 million) 'jobs lost' that the kerryweenies like to decry are now gone. Yeah, that's right, more jobs have been created under Bush now than have been lost..."

Now that's just silly. I don't know where you get your "intell", but my guess is that Ann Coulter is one source. Whatever happened to the concept that the truth is usually found in the middle. Michael Moore and Ann Coulter are just two sides of an extremist coin. One is no more righteous than the other. They just muddy up the water so the rest of us are too numb and confused to actually give a damn. Anyone who believes that one side is always right and the other always wrong does more to illuminate their own ignorance than any topic in between. I wish you could find a way to engage a topic without disparaging those who may bring a different experience or knowledge base into the debate.

Coulter? Not hardly. I don't even think I've ever seen or listened to her show.
Now if you would quit listening to Moore and view the facts, this is what you'll get:
Are you sure you're ready? It's nowhere near what the kerryweenies want it to be.
These are the Non-Farm Payroll number from the BLS. You know, the government entity. Official facts, not anything else. And this is the table the dems love, because it doesn't include self-employed individuals or small businesses newer than 2 years. In other words, I am not counted, nor are my employees in this figure. And small business/self employment is the largest and fastest growing contributor to the nation's employment.
Ok, get ready to deny:
January 2000 - 130,730,000
December 2003 - 130,043,000
January 2004 - 159,000 added
February 2004 - 83,000 added
March 2004 - 337,000 added
April 2004 - 288,000 added

To Date 2004 - 130,910,000
So a surplus of 180,000 since January 2000

You can deny them for yourself at www.bls.gov

Sucks, huh. Well, for the left anyway. And if you want to see the actual number that include all workers (self employed/small business newer than 2 years) you'll be even more verklempt.

[BDA116]

Originally Posted by zenblader

L2L,

Despite BD's assertions, if you look at "independent" scientific sources you see that the vast majority of climatologists agree that global warming is a fact. It is happening right now and the current readings show it rising faster than previously predicted. Even my grandma (89) who never learned to drive can stick her nose out the window and read a thermometer. She just clucks away and says "... This isn't right..." Duh! Double Duh!!
The only question now is, not as has been opined "whether" human pollution has contributed, but how much? My point is that it is ridiculous to think that the tons, millions of tons of pollution that finds it's way into the atmosphere does not make things worse. This countries' denial of the need for the Kyoto accord is a slap in the face of reality. It doesn't matter now who, or what is to blame. What matters now is to do everything we can to keep it from getting worse. Instead, like in other matters, the U.S. leadership, reacts only when they are forced to, and in some instances too late. I literally pray, and often, that we are not too late now. And that our leaders will come down off Denial Mountain and put our children's lives ahead of their own political and corporate leanings. This goes for Democrats as well as Republicans.

No one ever said the Earth wasn't slowly heating up, just the reasons.
There are hundreds of independent studies that show the sun is the primary contributor and the human race plays an extremely small part.
Are we polluting? Absolutely, and there are things we can do to control it, and I would like to see many things done about it, but this stupid assertation that we are the majore contributor to the slow warm up is absurd.

[zenblader]

Originally Posted by BDA116

Coulter? Not hardly. I don't even think I've ever seen or listened to her show.
Now if you would quit listening to Moore and view the facts, this is what you'll get:
Are you sure you're ready? It's nowhere near what the kerryweenies want it to be.
These are the Non-Farm Payroll number from the BLS. You know, the government entity. Official facts, not anything else. And this is the table the dems love, because it doesn't include self-employed individuals or small businesses newer than 2 years. In other words, I am not counted, nor are my employees in this figure. And small business/self employment is the largest and fastest growing contributor to the nation's employment.
Ok, get ready to deny:
January 2000 - 130,730,000
December 2003 - 130,043,000
January 2004 - 159,000 added
February 2004 - 83,000 added
March 2004 - 337,000 added
April 2004 - 288,000 added

To Date 2004 - 130,910,000
So a surplus of 180,000 since January 2000

You can deny them for yourself at www.bls.gov

Sucks, huh. Well, for the left anyway. And if you want to see the actual number that include all workers (self employed/small business newer than 2 years) you'll be even more verklempt.

Check those numbers agin, BD.

[BDA116]

Originally Posted by zenblader

Check those numbers agin, BD.

Uh, I just got them from the BLS site. Not a thing wrong with them.

[zenblader]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

You are using intuition in your statements about dumping "millions of tons of pollution". My scientific education taught me above all things that intuition is usually wrong.

Personally I don't think it's the real problem, but I hope it is as it is relatively easy to solve.

I think the real problem is thermal pollution. And that is not easy to solve.

Either way, you want to save the planet, learn Mandarin. Over there's the environmental disaster of the 21st century and it's just getting started.

I am absolutely not using intuition, L2L. The EPA's own report shows that millions of tons of ammonia, CO2, Carbon Monoxide, etc are being pumped into the atmosphere every YEAR! Every YEAR! Now you combine that with the harvesting and clearing of the world's forests, the propogation of methane producing herd animals, the natural emmission from forest fires and volcanic eruption and you can only come to the conclusion that it ain't good. Now if you want to adopt the strategy of the playground and say" ...I'm not going to clean up unless Johnny does..." Well then we can all just kiss our asses goodbye. Cuz nobody will take responsibility until it's too late. That pisses me off. I hope it pisses you off. And regarding Thermal influence...Duh. Hello! It's the freakin' sun! The greenhouse dynamic runs on the factor that heat (from the sun) in a polluted atmosphere becomes trapped as opposed to radiating back into space. Just look to Venus for an example of the greenhouse effect run wild. It's hot there and not just because it's closer to the sun.

[zenblader]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

You are using intuition in your statements about dumping "millions of tons of pollution". My scientific education taught me above all things that intuition is usually wrong.

Personally I don't think it's the real problem, but I hope it is as it is relatively easy to solve.

I think the real problem is thermal pollution. And that is not easy to solve.

Either way, you want to save the planet, learn Mandarin. Over there's the environmental disaster of the 21st century and it's just getting started.

In any equation, life on this planet exists because of a tenuous balance between environmental conditions. We exist because our atmosphere supports us. If we pollute this atmosphere at the current rate, we will change the equation and eliminate ourselves. I don't know why that is so hard to grasp.

[ND4SPD]

Global warming my arse. Spend 12 months in Cleveland, one of our 7month winters will set you straight

[zenblader]

Originally Posted by BDA116

Uh, I just got them from the BLS site. Not a thing wrong with them.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/P73979.asp

This is just one source that points to the frailty of Gov employment numbers.

Second, Have you looked at the way our government figures inflation. I did about a month ago. It reminds me of the labor stats. The way they figure the numbers would make a personal injury attorney blush. I've read dozens of accounts of people losing their jobs, know many more personally, and see waht is going on across this country. You go from state to state and ask people and they will tell you story after story. And yes people lost their jobs in the ninties, but they didn't have an administration that on record ststes that outsourcing is a good thing. I didn't agree with some of the measures Clinton adopted, Nafta was never going to be a good thing for The American worker, but Bush could care less. We have had some good labor figures recently but where are the jobs being created? Look close. the servive industry. Want to guess the disparity in pay between service industry positions and industrial, manufacturing, technology, etc.? Between the growing true cost of living, true inflation that includes energy costs, tuition, insurance, etc and the loss of jobs paying a living wage, we are not in better shape than we were three years ago. Corporate profits are up, certainly Chevron has done well, and the already wealthy have better bottom lines, but middle to low income families are not doing better. We are working longer hours, being more productive but our pay has not kept up with real cost of living increases. Throw the large federal deficit into this mix and it gets ugly.

[zenblader]

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

Global warming my arse. Spend 12 months in Cleveland, one of our 7month winters will set you straight

I'll pass on the invitation. Though I did get lucky once in Dayton...