[Chain]

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040511_925.html

[bwhip]

Wanna bet that the outrage in the Arab world will be far less than the outrage over prisoner abuse? (just as it was when the contractors were mutilated and dragged through the streets of Fallujah). Disgusting.

[nedro]

Originally Posted by Chain

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040511_925.html

UBI NI SVI!

[ER]

Originally Posted by bwhip

Wanna bet that the outrage in the Arab world will be far less than the outrage over prisoner abuse? (just as it was when the contractors were mutilated and dragged through the streets of Fallujah). Disgusting.

They play by a different set of rules over there, so why not expect hypocrisy over treatment of prisoners? What should make you mad is the hypocrisy here in the States over the whole situation. Was there the same level of tenacity and outrage over the mistreatment of our contractors as there has been over this?

[ER]

Originally Posted by bwhip

Wanna bet that the outrage in the Arab world will be far less than the outrage over prisoner abuse? (just as it was when the contractors were mutilated and dragged through the streets of Fallujah). Disgusting.

This same two-faced standard has been applied to the Israeli-Arab conflict for years and years. Israel assassinates a known terrorist, and they cry for blood. Some turd blows up a bus full of children, and they're silent. Why should this be any different?

[asiliat]

War is hell. I'm glad I've got flat feet.

I dunno, it's all very disturbing to me.

[Mojave954]

Cowards! They never show their face. Now why is that? Ashamed of what they are doing?? Must be.

[ER]

All the news sites are showing the video now. I'm not sure why, and I can't decide if it is in bad taste or not to do so. How would anyone like that to be their brother or son on the Internet for all the world to see? I can only hope that, at the very least, it will push more people to support our military until we pull out of there in June.

[bubba]

Originally Posted by ER

All the news sites are showing the video now. I'm not sure why, and I can't decide if it is in bad taste or not to do so. How would anyone like that to be their brother or son on the Internet for all the world to see? I can only hope that, at the very least, it will push more people to support our military until we pull out of there in June.

the news stations here will not show it, just the picture of the dude sitting there. at least the family found out yesterday and not today.

even REV Jesse Jackson spoke about it

[ER]

FoxNews now has (EDITED) on their video clip. I didn't watch it before so I wonder if they were showing the entire thing. Stltoday.com -- St. Louis's Post-Disgrace -- had a link to it entitled, "GRAPHIC VIOLENCE".

[Bacchus]

Tell me again, WHY are we involved in this war? I mean, a really legitimate reason? I feel so badly for all of the families that have lost children for, whatever . Not to mention the fallen youths themselves...

[zenblader]

Originally Posted by ER

They play by a different set of rules over there, so why not expect hypocrisy over treatment of prisoners? What should make you mad is the hypocrisy here in the States over the whole situation. Was there the same level of tenacity and outrage over the mistreatment of our contractors as there has been over this?

Absolutely, these extremists do play by a different set of rules. The Arab culture is a harsh one. They don't respect life the way we do in the West. They don't respect the Western idea of human rights. But this is their territory. They've been fighting and killing each other in the desert for thousands of years. Two things keep them from killing each other off. One: dominant, cruel leaders...and two: their shared fear and hatred of the West and the Western supported State of Israel.
This is exactly why I and many others across the US did not support the invasion of Iraq. While the first gulf "War" was justified in that Iraq invaded Kuwait and truly did threaten stability at that time. After the pounding we gave the Iraqi war machine, virtually eliminating their Air Force in the first few days of the gulf war, after the years of sanctions and UN inspection, there were many who didn't buy the administration's line about Iraq being a serious threat to the US. There was plenty of intell coming out of Iraq preceding the invasion that didn't get circulation. Like the fact that Sadaam had lost interest in his own military and was spending all his time with his family and writing romance novels. The whole rush to war in Iraq, despite the fact that we were already in theatre in Afghanistan trying to round up Bin Laden--the real threat to U.S. life and interest-- seemed out of tune and rashly optimistic. An Arab state, divided by political and religious ideals is going to come together and welcome a Western occupying force? Even if that force is there to "liberate" them (which is bullshit)? Not likely.
What is going on is almost exactly what many of us were saying could and would happen if we jumped in with both feet, unprepared, undermanned, and without real world support.
I really respect those who have been in a shooting war. Especially those who have served in combat situations. Invariably these are people who have learned that war is a bad thing, even when it's fought for a just cause. **** happens. Bad ****. So it must be the last resort, and it must not be entered into without enough support and planning for contingencies and exit strategies. There was no real rush to invade Iraq. There were no inter-continental missiles pointed at the U.S. Even Bush questioned Tenet..."is this all you've got?" But the Chickenhawks won out. They puffed up G.W's chest and whispered in his ear that he was a better man than his dad. He could finish the job. And so we went... And so we die. And so **** happens. To be honest, I don't know whether I'm more angry than sad.
By the way, ER. "We" are not pulling out on June 30. The military will still be there in the crosshairs for a long time, unless a miracle happens. This is another misconception about the "handover". It really is nothing more than rhetoric. U.S. forces will still be there in mass, as well as civilian contractors by the thousands.
Regardless of our political leanings we need to all pray for the victims, the men and women of the military, the innocents who die in every war, the families of those who are brutally killed, and for ourselves so that we don't let anger and hatred color the way we think or how we treat each other.
My opinion...

[ER]

Originally Posted by zenblader

Absolutely, these extremists do play by a different set of rules. The Arab culture is a harsh one. They don't respect life the way we do in the West. They don't respect the Western idea of human rights. But this is their territory. They've been fighting and killing each other in the desert for thousands of years. Two things keep them from killing each other off. One: dominant, cruel leaders...and two: their shared fear and hatred of the West and the Western supported State of Israel....

I know the history as well. Man, I've been over there. I spent 5 weeks in Israel and was able to spend a little time in Jordan to see the city of Petra. What we see in the news regarding that conflict isn't necessarily the whole truth, to no one's surprise. I've seen the hatred that Muslims living in Israel have to the Jews. They preach death and destruction to Israel and to the U.S. IN NAZARETH! I've heard them do it.

I've written this before, but as long as you have military states controlling what the people will learn, and the leaders preach hatred and a religion that is intolerant of everyone else, you're going to have this. Although (perhaps for a different thread), this conflict can be traced back to Abraham in the Bible.

By the way, ER. "We" are not pulling out on June 30. The military will still be there in the crosshairs for a long time, unless a miracle happens. This is another misconception about the "handover". It really is nothing more than rhetoric. U.S. forces will still be there in mass, as well as civilian contractors by the thousands.

Perhaps - I don't really know what we're supposed to do in June. I would hope that as soon as a government and a police force can be established, we would get out of there.

Regardless of our political leanings we need to all pray for the victims, the men and women of the military, the innocents who die in every war, the families of those who are brutally killed, and for ourselves so that we don't let anger and hatred color the way we think or how we treat each other.
My opinion...

Agreed.