[Proto]

An interesting article in yesterdays Observer newspaper. Somewhat surprising stance as the paper is very much left of centre, strongly anti-war and generally a Bush hater.

The Observer

[Zeeman]

He is very polarising, isn't he?

Z...

[luvtolean]

Michael Moore is a slimy lying ****.

He's partially (the other part is simply telling lies through film) made himself rich off being a racist. Only it's socially acceptable because he's racist against whites. Had he made his 911 hijacking comment about any race but whites, he'd be finished.

[Zeeman]

I don't know, I think it's important to look at both side sof the argument. Like politicians are so honest too. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle... They both use lies to get what they want.

z...

[luvtolean]

Michael Moore represents the side that makes him most wealthy. Read that whole article, the most telling part was his lawsuit against the newspaper in SF.

Slimy politicians are far more honest than this man.


I'm all for both sides of the story (I think it's the stabilizing influence in any country), but there is no side to his

I was all fired up about Columbine one day and a co-worker (who is extremely liberal) said, "If someone is buying what Michael Moore is selling, they're too stupid to reason with, so who cares".

I buy this to a degree, but the real problem is the international effect it has. People want to see the US get slammed, and he's willing to get rich doing through lies.

[aussie_929]

I would believe Moore any day over that idiot Bush. Bush has done a lot of damage to the image of the USA around the world.

You guys should try and get rid of him ASAP!

[Baketech]

Nice work Proto...

Yes.... I am back from molesting your British Virgins.....

[ER]

Moore is a propaganda artist. He's about as far to one side as you can get. He's not here to provide an intelligent point of view from the Liberal side. He has a fairly clear agenda and does little to hide it. He gets a (largely) free pass from most of the media though because his tilt is to the Left.

[aussie_929]

Originally Posted by ER

Moore is a propaganda artist. He's about as far to one side as you can get. He's not here to provide an intelligent point of view from the Liberal side. He has a fairly clear agenda and does little to hide it. He gets a (largely) free pass from most of the media though because his tilt is to the Left.

Bush isnt a propaganda artist?? He invaded another country on a mountain of lies.

[ER]

Originally Posted by aussie_929

Bush isnt a propaganda artist?? He invaded another country on a mountain of lies.

I just saw your other reply in this thread. Whether or not I would agree with Bush's politics and his decisions to put us in Iraq, I would hardly consider him to be less credible or truthful than Michael Moore. Should I even be taking your first post seriously?

[aussie_929]

Originally Posted by ER

I just saw your other reply in this thread. Whether or not I would agree with Bush's politics and his decisions to put us in Iraq, I would hardly consider him to be less credible or truthful than Michael Moore. Should I even be taking your first post seriously?

Yes, I was very serious. Bush has no credibility in the eyes of the rest of the world.

[johnnycrash]

Originally Posted by aussie_929

Yes, I was very serious. Bush has no credibility in the eyes of the rest of the world.

I don't agree with Bush's politics either, but to actually say you trust Michael Moore more than Bush???

[aussie_929]

Originally Posted by johnnycrash

I don't agree with Bush's politics either, but to actually say you trust Michael Moore more than Bush???

Yeah I do. Bush is a flat out liar.

[ER]

Originally Posted by aussie_929

Yes, I was very serious. Bush has no credibility in the eyes of the rest of the world.

Well, I can appreciate another point of view -- especially from outside of the US -- but it's silly to say that someone like Michael Moore is more truthful.

You know the funny thing about all of this? Few if any of any of us are privvy to all of the information being gathered. I'm not in touch with the CIA and the military, and I'm sure you're not either. Thus, we only "know" what we read and hear. If you're reading and listening to anti-American outlets while I'm getting my news from pro-American outlets, we're going to see different sides of the conflict, right? In some small regard, I think we believe what we want to believe.

All that aside, I find Michael Moore's views to be borderline harmful to the country. His mockumentaries are full of half-truths and propaganda and he attempts to mislead people into believing what he wants to believe. Like I said, he has an agenda.

[ER]

Originally Posted by aussie_929

Yeah I do. Bush is a flat out liar.

So you say. What lies has he told? Enlighten us...

[johnnycrash]

Originally Posted by aussie_929

Yeah I do. Bush is a flat out liar.

While I do realize immense damage has been done to our national reputation by Bush, I still find it terrifying that some seemingly semi-intelligent people from other countries actually put any stock into something Moore produces.

Wow!

[nomad]

The bottom line is this, if you could rate trust by a percentage, I'd have to say Bush and Moore are on equal footing with me. Both at 0%. How can you trust a man with a different agenda than what is stated? Moore is outrageous for the sake of being outrageous - it sells. Pushing the envelope always has... Manson, Madonna, Monroe, Hefner, Stern. Clearly you can't trust Moore because his agenda is driven by something else.

I'm asking myself the same question of Bush... I don't believe his agenda is as stated. I've never believed his agenda as stated. From the time of election to the immediate, unsupported decision to go to war my gut feeling tells me he isn't being straight with us. I can't trust him either.

Soo... not saying that Bush and Moore are equal, all I have to say is they both get 0% trust from me. Once you pass that threshold of 0% trust, it doesn't matter HOW slimy you are, it's still 0% trust.

[Baketech]

Actually Moore has "more" incentive to twist the truth than Bush.....MONEY...he is selling a product.
The more buzz he can create, the more his product is worth...a point he openly speaks of. Listen to what he says, by his own admission he openly tags his work as satire. In my opinion he states that in order to let himself of the hook. He is free to make inflammatory falsehoods with impunity....

Bushy and Blair on the other hand, are actually more in jeopardy of losing their jobs by advancing their views....

So tell me, which one actually believes in what they say?

[nhfirefighter13]

I've always wondered how it is the President's fault when he has 100's of people working for him (not to mention congress, the senate, etc) giving him the info he needs to base his decisions on in a day to day setting...

The President doesn't equal God, ya know...


Don't even get me started on Moore...Do a search for Bowling to see what I have to say about him.

[aussie_929]

Originally Posted by johnnycrash

While I do realize immense damage has been done to our national reputation by Bush, I still find it terrifying that some seemingly semi-intelligent people from other countries actually put any stock into something Moore produces.

Wow!

So you find it necessary to insult me because I believe what Moore says?

[aussie_929]

Originally Posted by ER

So you say. What lies has he told? Enlighten us...

errrmmm Iraq for one. I wasn't entirely sure if you were seriously asking that question.

[Baketech]

Originally Posted by aussie_929

errrmmm Iraq for one. I wasn't entirely sure if you were seriously asking that question.

Count me in the serious column....

Where did he lie?

[aussie_929]

Originally Posted by Baketech

Count me in the serious column....

Where did he lie?

WMD's.

[Baketech]

Originally Posted by aussie_929

WMD's.

Be more specific....exactly how did he lie about WMD's?

[aussie_929]

Originally Posted by Baketech

Be more specific....exactly how did he lie about WMD's?

That Saddam had any! Jeesh I thought that was obvious.

[Bacchus]

Originally Posted by Baketech

So tell me, which one actually believes in what they say?

Bush (I think) - and that's what so damned scary! At least I know he firmly believes that he is making a LOT of money for himself and his big business cronies, at the expense of you and I, my friend .