[Baketech]

Anyone going to see this?

I hate to line Moore's pockets, but I may actually go take a peek. If nothing else lampooning a sitting president in such a fashion sets an interesting precedent. It will be interesting to see it's effects on public opinion.

Link to Official Site

[Pete]

Can I borrow your copy of "My Life" when you're done with it?

[Baketech]

No need to lash out you thilly thavage....

[SuperDave]

I'm going to check it out.

[nomad]

I doubt I'll pay to go see it.
a) It'll be 2-bit tabloid feeding the masses what they want to hear.
b) I already believe Bush is a lying sack so why do I need him to tell me about it?
c) There are more entertaining movies on the market.

[zenblader]

Originally Posted by Baketech

Anyone going to see this?

I hate to line Moore's pockets, but I may actually go take a peek. If nothing else lampooning a sitting president in such a fashion sets an interesting precedent. It will be interesting to see it's effects on public opinion.

Link to Official Site

Same here. I'm curious as to the impact it will have. I know that special glasses should be handed out at the entrance to see past the propoganda and distortion. But I anticipate that there is enough stuff in the public record to make much of Moore's case. He just aligns the "facts" (public record) in a way that supports his argument, sprinkles in some props and unsubstantiated claims, closes with a dose of exaggeration and declares it gospel.

Hmmmmmmmm. Sounds very familiar. Maybe Cheney/Bush should have hired him early on as their PR guy. He would have fit right in.

In any case, nothing is going to change for the better if both sides rely on propoganda and distortion to make their case.

[rocket]

Originally Posted by nomad

I doubt I'll pay to go see it.
a) It'll be 2-bit tabloid feeding the masses what they want to hear.
b) I already believe Bush is a lying sack so why do I need him to tell me about it?
c) There are more entertaining movies on the market.

Wow, I agree with two out of three of your points.

[nomad]

Originally Posted by rocket

Wow, I agree with two out of three of your points.

You don't think there are more entertaining movies on the market?

[Proto]

Originally Posted by nomad

You don't think there are more entertaining movies on the market?

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by nomad

You don't think there are more entertaining movies on the market?

[nomad]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

I can keep a sense of humour, even with politics.

[rocket]

[deez]

Can't wait to see it. Biggest documentary release that I know of to date. Generally, doc's I have to see @ the independent theatres. This film is playing at all the megaplexes, 5 minute drive instead of 25

[Red Rider]

Originally Posted by rocket

LOL at Rocket's avatar!

[Dragger]

Nope, no need to go watch a "so-called" documentary. This film is full of lies and I do not need to sit in a theatre to get my information about what is going on in the world.

The current group in power is not perfect, none of us are, but at least we are standing up to terrorists and taking them on.

This might help with the lies the movie tells,
F9/11 lies

[nomad]

Originally Posted by Dragger

This might help with the lies the movie tells,
F9/11 lies

By no means am I sticking up for Moore, but that link does a poor job of pointing out so-called factual lies. Come on, if he lied, there's gotta be more meat to it than 2 bullets in that list... which aren't very convincing at best.

Moore seems to be a good spin doctor but I would bet he didn't use too many blatant lies. *shrug* I guess more of these websites will pop up soon.

[Zeeman]

Yup, I'll see it, should be interesting to see it's effect.

Z...

[zenblader]

Originally Posted by Dragger

Nope, no need to go watch a "so-called" documentary. This film is full of lies and I do not need to sit in a theatre to get my information about what is going on in the world.

The current group in power is not perfect, none of us are, but at least we are standing up to terrorists and taking them on.

This might help with the lies the movie tells,
F9/11 lies

Dragger,

It took me thirty seconds to spot two outright lies in that flyer.
1. The flyer says it was Richard Clarke's decision to fly the Bin Laden family members out of the U.S. Richard Clarke signed off on the Bin Laden family flights out of the U.S. after receiving a request, but it wasn't his idea! There is a big difference.
2. The authors of the flyer make a claim that Moore calls for the death of American soldiers, then offer as proof a quote that does no such thing.
The bulk of the flyer has nothing to do with Moore's current movie and instead rehashes old complaints about his previous documentaries.

I'm going to see the movie, if I can ever get a ticket, and I will use discretion in considering what Moore asserts. I'm sure there will be things that are twisted to his advantage, but I'm not stupid enough to believe that everything Moore says is a lie or without some merit, anymore than I believe everything Bush says is a lie or without merit. I think we should judge for ourselves. Just sayin...

[MACI4LIFE]

Just saw the movie. Obviously biased but actual footage is pretty damning on the bush administration.

One thing that totally sticks out is how last week the Rep's were trying to deny that they felt there was any relation of Iraq to al queda, and then this movie shows us the clips where those in fact were the words that they did say, to strengthen their case.

all in all pretty entertaining.

[Dragger]

Originally Posted by zenblader

Dragger,

It took me thirty seconds to spot two outright lies in that flyer.
1. The flyer says it was Richard Clarke's decision to fly the Bin Laden family members out of the U.S. Richard Clarke signed off on the Bin Laden family flights out of the U.S. after receiving a request, but it wasn't his idea! There is a big difference.
2. The authors of the flyer make a claim that Moore calls for the death of American soldiers, then offer as proof a quote that does no such thing.
The bulk of the flyer has nothing to do with Moore's current movie and instead rehashes old complaints about his previous documentaries.

I'm going to see the movie, if I can ever get a ticket, and I will use discretion in considering what Moore asserts. I'm sure there will be things that are twisted to his advantage, but I'm not stupid enough to believe that everything Moore says is a lie or without some merit, anymore than I believe everything Bush says is a lie or without merit. I think we should judge for ourselves. Just sayin...

Point 1 is taken, wording on the flying should be better. The idea was not Clarke's, he just gave the ok. You can also go to Moore's Website and see he does not excatly get the wording right. "It turns out that the White House approved planes to pick up the bin Ladens and numerous other Saudis. At least six private jets and nearly two dozen commercial planes carried the Saudis and the bin Ladens out of the U.S. after September 13th. In all, 142 Saudis, including 24 members of the bin Laden family, were allowed to leave the country." That sort of makes it look like it was Bush that approved the idea when you say the White House, should say Clarke.


Point 2, can not agree.
The flyer says the following
"Calling for the deaths of Americans soldiers: "I'm sorry, but the majority of Americans supported this war once it began and, sadly, that majority must now sacrifice their children until enough blood has been let that maybe -- just maybe -- God and the Iraqi peopl will forgive us in the end.""

The way I read that it sure make me think Moore believes more soldiers have to die.

I just hope that people that do see the movie do not believe all that they see because it is not the complete truth. This is our 2nd time in Iraq, mainly to finish what was started in 1991. I think some people in the world have forgotten that we (coalition) kicked Saddam out of Kuwait after he invaded it and killed many innocent people. He signed an agreement to end the confict but it came with conditions. The conditions of this agreement and UN resolutions were never lived up to by Saddam and his government. I have been to Saudi Arabia 3 times, Kuwait and Turkey with the USAF to help enforce the UN no fly zones which were in place to help protect the Iraqi people. Saddam never stopped shooting at our pilots and never complied with the agreement he signed with the first coalition or the UN resolutions. I do not think these items are mentioned in Moore's movie but let me know if they are once you see it.

[Baketech]

I will probably go see the movie but for different reasons....

I am less interested in what Moore has to say, and more in the precedent being set. At first glance the film would appear to skirt the lines of electioneering, hence my interest in seeing first hand what gets said.

Another facet that is very interesting to me is the fabricated controversy around this film. It seems to be generating little controversy, but when you listen to Moore's soundbites he prattles on about controversy and censorship....it would seem that if he was unable to create controversy, then he has no qualms about fabricating some....

In historical terms, I think very little will be said of Moore's message...but instead the dialogue will be about the effects of lampooning a sitting president in an election year....it will set a precedent. I have been doing a bit of reading, and can't seem to find a similar episode in American election history, although I am sure one probably exists...anyone, anyone?

It's a free country, but I would prefer that Moore choose political activism rather than film making to express his views. Satire of past events is one thing...satire of current events with the intent to sway the outcome is quite another. Imho it will open a Pandora's box that both sides will use to further isolate the uneducated portion of our country from the political process....

[nomad]

Originally Posted by Baketech

It's a free country, but I would prefer that Moore choose political activism rather than film making to express his views. Satire of past events is one thing...satire of current events with the intent to sway the outcome is quite another. Imho it will open a Pandora's box that both sides will use to further isolate the uneducated portion of our country from the political process....

For once we agree. This opens the door to a whole new breed of mud slinging campaigns. Imagine documentaries released every election year on the previous administration's scandals or even fiction story lines that damn either the left or the right... I picture a Tom Clancy or Robert Ludlum alike movie showing a secret society of lefties or right wingers where they do evil deeds and act against certain cultures or groups. Perhaps to go as far as suggesting (or in a movie stating) that the administration works with terrorists etc. Many people get confused with fact and fiction when Hollywood is involved.

How many people think Tony Danza's daughter is named Samantha?

[Baketech]

Damn....just got back from the matinee showing...2 hours, and 5 bucks I will never get back...

Although I am glad I went to see what all the fuss was about, I am also regretful in a certain way. I once thought Moore was a film maker with something clever to say. After this rambling, pointless mess, I am beginning to think it was a premature conclusion, and that he is merely a sad buffoon....a gadfly exploiting the suffering of others for his financial gain....


I was completely expecting the movie to make some points that would make me squirm or take pause....it did neither. In fact, I am really not sure what his point was. It seemed to be a collage of unrelated imagery that never really supports any type of thesis.....embarrassing really.

Anyone else seen it yet...and if you got Moore's point, how about sharing with the classs?

[dB]

I haven't seen it and I won't. I saw Roger & Me several years ago and learned all I need to know about Moore's style.

How does causing a scene in the lobby of the main GM building and being refused an audience with the CEO prove that the CEO is an evil bastid?

The guy's a twat. The unfortunate thing is that so many people pay him for this crap.