[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by Baketech

My opinion...yeah, Bushy sucks, but I'd rather live in his world than Kerry/Edwards....

Yep.

[Baketech]

Originally Posted by Bacchus

Do you really feel/believe that America is safer from terrorism now than before this war? I don't - matter of fact, I think we are in much deeper chit now, what with all of the fomenting and hatred this has produced.

It doesn't matter what I believe or feel about safety....if I had asked that question on Sept 10th, lots of folks would have had pretty cozy answers....

I take it you haven't traveled the world much...there was plenty of hate to go around before IraqII.....

[Bacchus]

Originally Posted by Baketech

I take it you haven't traveled the world much...

Au contraire! Oops, sorry to speak Frenchie...

[zenblader]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Oh, you mean the policy Kerry voted to the assent for, sending troops in under Bush's plan?

Do you even try to listen? Kerry has already said many times that he voted to give Bush the authority to act militarily as a last resort. He is on record saying so on the Senate floor. He has said that he would vote to give any President that option. It is up to the President, any President, to be accountable for the actions he has taken. Can any reasonable person consider that we invaded Iraq as a last resort? Cmon!!! I would have voted to give Bush authority to act based on the faulty Bull **** intelligence that was circulated. It was up to Bush to look at ALL the intell, not just the stuff that Cheney put in front of his nose, and decide whether it was worth the lives, money and ill will we would engender as an occupying force.

Bush's plan?!! Are you kidding me? What feckin' plan?

[zenblader]

Originally Posted by Baketech

It doesn't matter what I believe or feel about safety....if I had asked that question on Sept 10th, lots of folks would have had pretty cozy answers....

I take it you haven't traveled the world much...there was plenty of hate to go around before IraqII.....

Excuse me, Bacchus, for stepping in on Baketech's response to you but this boils my boil. I've heard this "I take it you have not travelled the world", Bull **** from others who denigrate and patronize anyone who doesn't agree with their position. It is the kind of comment you get from a source who can not support their own side of the debate without belittling someone elses life experience. Believe it or not there still may be people on the planet who maintain the earth is flat, so I suppose it is reasonable to assume that there are people who don't think we are distrusted and hated more than ever after the past three years. I don't think you need to plan a trip to Manila to confirm this.

[Baketech]

Originally Posted by zenblader

Excuse me, Bacchus, for stepping in on Baketech's response to you but this boils my boil. I've heard this "I take it you have not travelled the world", Bull **** from others who denigrate and patronize anyone who doesn't agree with their position. It is the kind of comment you get from a source who can not support their own side of the debate without belittling someone elses life experience. Believe it or not there still may be people on the planet who maintain the earth is flat, so I suppose it is reasonable to assume that there are people who don't think we are distrusted and hated more than ever after the past three years. I don't think you need to plan a trip to Manila to confirm this.

Bacchus and I have our own little fun with this inside joke....I know he has travelled.....it's called sarcasm.

Put your Superman cape away until someone asks for your help....

Edit:
As far as "boiling your boil" goes.....whatever the heck that means...try to have some perspective. If you can't participate in the thread without getting "boiled", maybe you should unsub from politics. I've read your posts in other areas, and they are informed and lucid...

[nomad]

Originally Posted by Baketech

Put your Superman cape away until someone asks for your help....

Edit:
As far as "boiling your boil" goes.....whatever the heck that means...try to have some perspective. If you can't participate in the thread without getting "boiled", maybe you should unsub from politics. I've read your posts in other areas, and they are informed and lucid...

Baketech, you appear to be back to your same old games of trying to insult, belittle and put down the otherside in order to win an argument. The momen the other side makes a point, you claim that the otherside is closed minded and needs more perspective. It's so routine. I'm sure you'll take this to PM and tell Zen that you disagree with him, claim you are pulling out of the thread and perhaps even go so far as to block his messages... open minded at it's best. Try somethig new, your tactics and strategies are old.

[MACI4LIFE]

Originally Posted by Baketech

The Taliban needed their ass kicked...Saddam needed his ass kicked...the whole world knew it...now it's done.

If the Bush haters think we went to war for the wrong reasons, why aren't they calling for Saddam's reinstatement....

If they really believe Bush lied and was wrong, where is their courage of conviction to make reparations to Hussein?

Maybe they should shouldn't they. After all, there was no such thing as car bombings, suicide bombers, and militant uprisings were kept in check during his time. However we do know what he DID do, so go ahead and pick your poison.

[Baketech]

Originally Posted by MACI4LIFE

Maybe they should shouldn't they. After all, there was no such thing as car bombings, suicide bombers, and militant uprisings were kept in check during his time. However we do know what he DID do, so go ahead and pick your poison.

Not me....I'm glad he's gone...

[MACI4LIFE]

Originally Posted by Baketech

Bush gave many other reasons....in fact he was widely criticized pre-war for having too many reasons. The leftist media blasted him for being unable to condense it all into a sound bite, so it became WMD. This was disussed on this board if you recall...nod:

I think his agenda was legit...he gave the reasons, said what he was going to do, and then set it in motion. France & Germany vetoed any cooperative effort to end the stalemate peacefully....then Saddam called the bluff...case closed.

OHHH thats a good one.

personal hit against father + OIL + non supporter of American dictator + American foothold in middleeast = WMD's!!

The peaceful resolution was Dubya giving hans blix the time needed to PROVE what the Administration found out recently... THERE ARE NO WMD's. so i'd say his agenda was hardly legitimate.

[MACI4LIFE]

Originally Posted by Baketech

My opinion...yeah, Bushy sucks, but I'd rather live in his world than Kerry/Edwards....

The problem is that the rest of the world doesn't see it that way!!

[Baketech]

Originally Posted by MACI4LIFE

OHHH thats a good one.

personal hit against father + OIL + non supporter of American dictator + American foothold in middleeast = WMD's!!

The peaceful resolution was Dubya giving hans blix the time needed to PROVE what the Administration found out recently... THERE ARE NO WMD's. so i'd say his agenda was hardly legitimate.

Prove there were no WMD's and I will concede that point.

The problem is that the rest of the world doesn't see it that way!!

Documentation to back up that claim?

Otherwise it's just opinion, and should be phrased as such...

Edit:
I'm going riding....should give you plenty of time to find the info...

[Bacchus]

Now children! Can't we all just play nicely together?

[MACI4LIFE]

Originally Posted by Baketech

Not me....I'm glad he's gone...

i don't think no one would disagree with you there, but in this case the UN should have been the ones taking care of this issue. Dubya side stepped them, took it into his own hands, didn't realize the consequences and now wants the "useless" UN to help bail him out. I wonder why no one wants to help him. The only chance is that a new face comes into office and make amends so that things finally get done with the UN in charge, like it should have been in the first place.

It's too easy to point out that the worlds a better place now that saddam is gone as a ligitimate reason for attacking iraq, but that doesn't explain why Bush would want to risk so much to try and take the guy out, when it's proven he has no links to the greatest american threat Bin Laden, has no WMD's that would threaten US soil, and was crippled with eceomonic sanctions for the last 10 or so years?? Somehow i don't think they were playing the role of the good guys by removing someone that was such an evil person for the good of the world.

[MACI4LIFE]

Originally Posted by Baketech

Prove there were no WMD's and I will concede that point.


Documentation to back up that claim?

Otherwise it's just opinion, and should be phrased as such...

Edit:
I'm going riding....should give you plenty of time to find the info...

uhhh wellll... no ones found any yet. point proven until otherwise corrected. you know innocent till proven guilty. We know what he did have, cause the american's gave him the materials needed, but we haven't found it yet.

[nomad]

Originally Posted by MACI4LIFE

OHHH thats a good one.

personal hit against father + OIL + non supporter of American dictator + American foothold in middleeast = WMD's!!

The peaceful resolution was Dubya giving hans blix the time needed to PROVE what the Administration found out recently... THERE ARE NO WMD's. so i'd say his agenda was hardly legitimate.

You only touched on this... but it is convenient that Iraq is the key foothold in the middle east because it shares a border with pretty much all other middle eastern nations. I'd guess that would be why Iraq was the first chosen target.

On the other hand, oil profit won't cover the losses of the USA in this war. It may make him personally rich, but even Crazy Dubya wouldn't take it that far.

Hmmm... what other reasons to go to war? If he did not, Bush would go down in history as sitting idly-by while USA was attacked. Instead, the attacks on his watch will be masked by his strong reaction... stuff history is made of.

[MACI4LIFE]

Documentation to back up that claim?


Well here a quickie i pulled up doing a google search.

"The research firm, Global Market Insite, asked citizens in the G-8 economic nations who they would pick if they could vote in America's presidential election. (See the poll results).

When undecided voters are removed from the results, the GMI poll found that although Bush would beat John Kerry in the U.S., Kerry got 85 percent of the vote in China, 84 percent in Russia, 84 percent in Japan; 94 percent in Germany, 93 percent in France, 79 percent in Britain and 73 percent in Canada."

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/news/040707a.asp

not exaclty an unbiased site, but pulls relevant info that supports my statement.

here's another interesting one. scroll down to see the comparrison of how the americans and top 5 european countries view Georgie.

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/har...ex.asp?PID=484

[nomad]

Originally Posted by MACI4LIFE

Documentation to back up that claim?


Well here a quickie i pulled up doing a google search.

"The research firm, Global Market Insite, asked citizens in the G-8 economic nations who they would pick if they could vote in America's presidential election. (See the poll results).

When undecided voters are removed from the results, the GMI poll found that although Bush would beat John Kerry in the U.S., Kerry got 85 percent of the vote in China, 84 percent in Russia, 84 percent in Japan; 94 percent in Germany, 93 percent in France, 79 percent in Britain and 73 percent in Canada."

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/news/040707a.asp

not exaclty an unbiased site, but pulls relevant info that supports my statement.

You just know he's going to claim that polls aren't fact, they are just a bunch of opinions... *sigh*

[Bacchus]

Hope Bake makes his ride a short one - otherwise there could be two or three more pages of Bake-bashing in this thread by the time he returns.

[MACI4LIFE]

Originally Posted by nomad

You just know he's going to claim that polls aren't fact, they are just a bunch of opinions... *sigh*

I know. the only FACTS he knows are the ones out of Dubya's mouth. public opinion doesn't count.

[MACI4LIFE]

Originally Posted by Bacchus

Hope Bake makes his ride a short one - otherwise there could be two or three more pages of Bake-bashing in this thread by the time he returns.

LOL

but we already know his comebacks will consist of degrading remarks of both the links and the poster, so that'll cancel out the pages of bake bashing.

[Baketech]

Originally Posted by Bacchus

Hope Bake makes his ride a short one - otherwise there could be two or three more pages of Bake-bashing in this thread by the time he returns.

It's good wholesome entertainment, plus it's easy to pick on a guy with a 40 IQ....

Yes...a short ride 80 miles...including 10-12 miles of milled pavement on one of the local twisties..... grooves n' gravel.....

[bwhip]

Originally Posted by MACI4LIFE

..."The research firm, Global Market Insite, asked citizens in the G-8 economic nations who they would pick if they could vote in America's presidential election. (See the poll results).

When undecided voters are removed from the results, the GMI poll found that although Bush would beat John Kerry in the U.S., Kerry got 85 percent of the vote in China, 84 percent in Russia, 84 percent in Japan; 94 percent in Germany, 93 percent in France, 79 percent in Britain and 73 percent in Canada."...

Because he'd be better for the US? Or better for them? That's ridiculous. I think I'll vote for a President that will look out for US interests first, thank you.

If I said that I would vote for Tony Blair for PM of the UK, does that mean he'd make the best one? Very scientific poll there.