[spillover]

It's interesting that you bring up George Soros, Bake. Would you cast Warren Buffett in with his lot?

[Baketech]

Originally Posted by spillover

It's interesting that you bring up George Soros, Bake. Would you cast Warren Buffett in with his lot?

I consider Buffet a liberal activist....I consider Soros a megalomaniac...

While Buffet contributes to political cause, it seems to be in a method that asserts a particular candidate rather than the Soros method of negative attacks on a candidate....

Also Buffet has been an advocate of donation disclosure and also the reduction of soft money. Soros seems to exploit both of these methods...




Edit:
Forgot to mention...one area where they certainly agree....they both have stated their belief is that the war on terrorism cannot be won...

[Zeeman]

Originally Posted by Baketech

I've worked with a lot of guys like John Kerredy....you probably have too...

They can always tell you what's wrong with something, always tell you how they would do it.....yadda yadda....but if you look at their past performance and track record, there's nothing of substance...

Bush's track record goes something like "start a business, run it into ground, start new business, run it into ground, start another new business, run it into ground..."

The USA is his biggest business venture yet...

Z...

[Baketech]

Originally Posted by Zeeman

Bush's track record goes something like "start a business, run it into ground, start new business, run it into ground, start another new business, run it into ground..."

The USA is his biggest business venture yet...

Z...

Name those businesses please....

Or is this what you "learned" by watching F-9/11

[spillover]

Originally Posted by Baketech

Edit:
Forgot to mention...one area where they certainly agree....they both have stated their belief is that the war on terrorism cannot be won...

Probably no more so than the British could have won the war in the 1770's.

Point take about Soros and Buffett.

[ER]

Originally Posted by Bacchus

Honestly, I'm not sure. What I am sure of is the fact that bush (god, I literally gag just thinking that name, let alone typing it) is a blatant criminal. All he represents is big business and his cronies, not you or I. You will never convince me that this wasn't a personal war, and that our brothers and sisters are over there dying for no good reason. Whatever Kerry might do as President, it will have to be a vast improvement over the slime bag currently running our country. How can you people look at the current state of affairs and not be totally pissed off?! Does no one give a **** about the environment? Health benefits? Illegal immigration? Tax cuts for the rich? And on and on and on and on...........

Brother, taxes and the "tax-the-rich" slogan are my button in politics. You're either having fun here our you're being duped by the class-warfare that is played to perfection by the Left.

There is (or there is supposed to be, anyway) a stark difference between the philosophies of the traditional Right and Left. When Kerry claims to be "for you and me", what does that mean? Health benefits? How do you think he's going to pay for socialized coverage? The government doesn't earn a salary so it will seize the costs of a universal health care system from the tax-payers. Tax cuts for the rich? In 2002 the top 25% of the income earners were paying 84% of the income taxes in this country despite earning 75% of the income. The top 50% -- HALF -- of the income earners in this country paid a whopping 98% of the income taxes!! That means that half of this country is having their income taxed and half is not. Is that what he means by being for you and me? Because I'm in the top half and I'm certainly not "rich". Come on brother...wake up. He's going to try and shift the cost of health care and what-not onto a small enough percentage of the income earners in order to buy votes from the majority by promising them a tax-free lifestyle - as long as they continue to vote DNC, that is.

Everyone needs to read and re-read the Constitution. Government was put into place to provide for the general welfare of the people. It's not there to babysit anyone and to guarantee them a right to someone else's earned income through tax "credits", free health-care and a graduated income-tax curve.

Where does this loathing of the high-rollers come from anyway? Is that greed? I'm probably right in the middle of what is called the middle-class and I have no envy of the wealth that the upper class has...

[Baketech]

Originally Posted by Baketech

Name those businesses please....

Or is this what you "learned" by watching F-9/11

Crickets....

[bwhip]

Originally Posted by ER

Brother, taxes and the "tax-the-rich" slogan are my button in politics. You're either having fun here our you're being duped by the class-warfare that is played to perfection by the Left.

There is (or there is supposed to be, anyway) a stark difference between the philosophies of the traditional Right and Left. When Kerry claims to be "for you and me", what does that mean? Health benefits? How do you think he's going to pay for socialized coverage? The government doesn't earn a salary so it will seize the costs of a universal health care system from the tax-payers. Tax cuts for the rich? In 2002 the top 25% of the income earners were paying 84% of the income taxes in this country despite earning 75% of the income. The top 50% -- HALF -- of the income earners in this country paid a whopping 98% of the income taxes!! That means that half of this country is having their income taxed and half is not. Is that what he means by being for you and me? Because I'm in the top half and I'm certainly not "rich". Come on brother...wake up. He's going to try and shift the cost of health care and what-not onto a small enough percentage of the income earners in order to buy votes from the majority by promising them a tax-free lifestyle - as long as they continue to vote DNC, that is.

Everyone needs to read and re-read the Constitution. Government was put into place to provide for the general welfare of the people. It's not there to babysit anyone and to guarantee them a right to someone else's earned income through tax "credits", free health-care and a graduated income-tax curve.

Where does this loathing of the high-rollers come from anyway? Is that greed? I'm probably right in the middle of what is called the middle-class and I have no envy of the wealth that the upper class has...

Well said!

[spillover]

Class warfare is a ripe accusation. Do you know anyone who had been taxed by the federal government so much that they had to sell the house and buy cheaper?

Read the budget and then tell me who benefits the most from federal spending.

[Bacchus]

Originally Posted by ER

Come on brother...wake up.

I hear your arguments ER. All I can do is look at this country's state of affairs and former international respect 4 years ago, and now. Sorta night and day, wouldn't you say? And yeah, me being one of those "tree-huggers" doesn't add to my adulation of Bush either. I'm not gonna make this long because, as has been stated in the past, both political sides here on the .org are talking to walls. It's all good, debate is a fun thing.

And Baketech, I got your crickets swinging!

[lexus rx]

Originally Posted by ER

Brother, taxes and the "tax-the-rich" slogan are my button in politics. You're either having fun here our you're being duped by the class-warfare that is played to perfection by the Left.

There is (or there is supposed to be, anyway) a stark difference between the philosophies of the traditional Right and Left. When Kerry claims to be "for you and me", what does that mean? Health benefits? How do you think he's going to pay for socialized coverage? The government doesn't earn a salary so it will seize the costs of a universal health care system from the tax-payers. Tax cuts for the rich? In 2002 the top 25% of the income earners were paying 84% of the income taxes in this country despite earning 75% of the income. The top 50% -- HALF -- of the income earners in this country paid a whopping 98% of the income taxes!! That means that half of this country is having their income taxed and half is not. Is that what he means by being for you and me? Because I'm in the top half and I'm certainly not "rich". Come on brother...wake up. He's going to try and shift the cost of health care and what-not onto a small enough percentage of the income earners in order to buy votes from the majority by promising them a tax-free lifestyle - as long as they continue to vote DNC, that is.

Everyone needs to read and re-read the Constitution. Government was put into place to provide for the general welfare of the people. It's not there to babysit anyone and to guarantee them a right to someone else's earned income through tax "credits", free health-care and a graduated income-tax curve.

Where does this loathing of the high-rollers come from anyway? Is that greed? I'm probably right in the middle of what is called the middle-class and I have no envy of the wealth that the upper class has...

you know ER, the fact remains that if someone makes $16,000 a year why should they have to pay alot of their hard earned cash to the goverment? if you have someone that makes 2 million a year why cant he pay half of that to taxes? he still has 1 million to play with. if someone that makes 16k a year pays 20 percent of that a year then they have 12,800 left. who would be better off? im in the middle class and i feel that if you can help out your fellow human being by giving up some money then why not? the constitution also says you have the right to pursuit of happiness. how in the hell can someone pursue any type of happiness on 13k a year? could you do anything besides pay your bills on that much. i dont think so. and whats wrong with free health care? if it cost you over 1k to go to the emergency room and you have 2 kids that end up going twice in one year then how is someone going to live off 9k a year. greed is the problem. its always been the problem. capitalism is worse than communism in some ways. i think if anyone needs to wake up its you. come on a get out of bed and do something with your life today.

[Baketech]

Originally Posted by lexus rx

you know ER, the fact remains that if someone makes $16,000 a year why should they have to pay alot of their hard earned cash to the goverment? if you have someone that makes 2 million a year why cant he pay half of that to taxes? he still has 1 million to play with. if someone that makes 16k a year pays 20 percent of that a year then they have 12,800 left. who would be better off? im in the middle class and i feel that if you can help out your fellow human being by giving up some money then why not? the constitution also says you have the right to pursuit of happiness. how in the hell can someone pursue any type of happiness on 13k a year? could you do anything besides pay your bills on that much. i dont think so. and whats wrong with free health care? if it cost you over 1k to go to the emergency room and you have 2 kids that end up going twice in one year then how is someone going to live off 9k a year. greed is the problem. its always been the problem. capitalism is worse than communism in some ways. i think if anyone needs to wake up its you. come on a get out of bed and do something with your life today.

Are you a writer for Comedy Central....cuz that ****'s gold....

[lexus rx]

Originally Posted by Baketech

Are you a writer for Comedy Central....cuz that ****'s gold....

actually i am! and its copper. not gold!

[rocket]

I really have a headache now.

Why doesn't the government just give everyone a government supplied job, the same pay, and a government supplied shelter? That would solve all these problems. A vote for Kerry will ensure this outcome.

(Nevermind my avatar I'm a changed man)

[bwhip]

Originally Posted by lexus rx

...greed is the problem. its always been the problem. capitalism is worse than communism in some ways...

Better move to France, dude.

[Zeeman]

Originally Posted by Baketech

Sorry, been lazy... Only here to stir the pot and have some fun..

But anyway (compressed), Bush started Arbusto Energy, it fell on hard times, tried various mergers etc to try and get it out of trouble, it was rescued by spectrum 7, which Bush was made Chief Exec Officer. Said company lost $400000, and was bought out by Harken, and Bush was made a director, and was also hired as a consultant. Not to mention a lot of $$$ and stock. A whole heap of events occured that I can't really be bothered typing out, but in 1990 Bush sold a large chunk of his stock and quit the game - about a week before a huge loss was anounced. Interesting timing...

Now, I don't know about you guys, but the positions he held are positions of power. Thes epositions carry responisiblity, and companies going bust, needing saving and finiancial boosts are results of poor management. Bush Jr being one of the said managers (director, exec officer, consultant...)

Z...

[Baketech]

Originally Posted by Zeeman

Sorry, been lazy... Only here to stir the pot and have some fun..

But anyway (compressed), Bush started Arbusto Energy, it fell on hard times, tried various mergers etc to try and get it out of trouble, it was rescued by spectrum 7, which Bush was made Chief Exec Officer. Said company lost $400000, and was bought out by Harken, and Bush was made a director, and was also hired as a consultant. Not to mention a lot of $$$ and stock. A whole heap of events occured that I can't really be bothered typing out, but in 1990 Bush sold a large chunk of his stock and quit the game - about a week before a huge loss was anounced. Interesting timing...

Now, I don't know about you guys, but the positions he held are positions of power. Thes epositions carry responisiblity, and companies going bust, needing saving and finiancial boosts are results of poor management. Bush Jr being one of the said managers (director, exec officer, consultant...)

Z...

Did you get this from the script of F-9/11?

Do you even understand what companies like Arbusto are about in financial terms?

Concerning the timing of his stock sale, why is he not in jail for securities fraud?

Also,

[ER]

Originally Posted by Bacchus

I hear your arguments ER. All I can do is look at this country's state of affairs and former international respect 4 years ago, and now. Sorta night and day, wouldn't you say? And yeah, me being one of those "tree-huggers" doesn't add to my adulation of Bush either. I'm not gonna make this long because, as has been stated in the past, both political sides here on the .org are talking to walls. It's all good, debate is a fun thing.

And Baketech, I got your crickets swinging!

Hey, I wasn't going to label you has a tree-hugger...just yet, anyway. J/K. I appreciate the response.

With this election you have to decide what is the most important thing to you. Each of us will vote that way, right? Bush hasn't been perfect and he's not 100% of the candidate I'd like to see running. But he's shown us and the rest of the world that he will fight terrorism regardless of what the UN says, he believes in lower taxes and more economic freedom, and he supports the majority of the important moral issues (in my eyes). Kerry promises to subject our military decisions to the UN, he WILL raise taxes again, he believes in socialistic health care, and he is as far Left as you can get. To me...the choice is clear-cut, despite the fact that Bush is growing the Government like a Liberal.

Lexus and those who think like you...We won't be a free-country indefinitely if the Government continues to grow like it does. Where do people as tax-payers think the Government will get the money when they promise "free health care for all" or tax-credits to single mothers continuing to have children out of wedlock? The Government doesn't earn an income so it has to first seize the money from the people before it can give back to the people. How does that make sense to anyone? Again, re-read the Constitution. The promise for free goods was never given. The promise for the freedom to pursue those things was. What will be the incentive to work or do anything to better yourself or the country when everything you earn will be taken and evenly redistributed? Why will that person earning $2 million work when his earnings will be taken from him to be given to you? Furthermore, who do you think spends the money to drive the economy?

Since this is political and not religious, I've left out the fact that I think morality and faith in God are directly proportional to the success and freedoms this country has.

[ER]

Originally Posted by spillover

Class warfare is a ripe accusation. Do you know anyone who had been taxed by the federal government so much that they had to sell the house and buy cheaper?

Read the budget and then tell me who benefits the most from federal spending.

Spillover, when you hear people say things like "the rich don't earn their way - they get their money off of the backs of the poor", where do you think that hatred comes from? Like I said, my wife and I together are probably the typical middle-class family around St. Louis, yet you don't hear me saying this nonsense because I don't resent those who have chosen to dedicate their lives to working hard enough to earn more money. Good for them if that's their thing. But according to Dick Gephardt, those people are more fortunate and have "won life's lottery". I'm not making that up. THAT my friend is class warfare. Liberal politicians want the average Joe to resent those who earn more because they will support the move to shift the tax-burden onto a smaller and smaller percentage of the population. They want to hear the "hey, they deserve it...they don't earn their ways". The ironic thing is the few upper classmen who are Liberal are the ones who have inherited their weath.

Our country wasn't built around this. It was supposed to be a free land where people could pursue their economic dreams uninhibited by Government. Today's politicians have convinced a majority of the population that this should no longer be the case because those who do are somehow holding back those who choose not to, as if there was a limited potential...

[nedro]

Originally Posted by ER

He's going to try and shift the cost of health care and what-not onto a small enough percentage of the income earners in order to buy votes from the majority by promising them a tax-free lifestyle - as long as they continue to vote DNC, that is....

Sorry to chop up your great thread but this paragraph is too important to overlook. You also left out one very important part....
And as long as you stay poor and remain a servant to the upper class!

The left is the biggest proponant of class structure. They want to see the divide between the rich and the poor to become bigger. They want to regulate our income. They want to control what types of cars we drive. They want to dissarm us.

Jesus Crist! I just described COMUNISM!

And don't for one minute think that Comunism means everyone makes the same amount of money. There are the regulars, and there are the extremely rich. Just very few extremely rich. And they like it that way.

[Apexstrafer]

Originally Posted by Bacchus

Honestly, I'm not sure. What I am sure of is the fact that bush (god, I literally gag just thinking that name, let alone typing it) is a blatant criminal. All he represents is big business and his cronies, not you or I. You will never convince me that this wasn't a personal war, and that our brothers and sisters are over there dying for no good reason. Whatever Kerry might do as President, it will have to be a vast improvement over the slime bag currently running our country. How can you people look at the current state of affairs and not be totally pissed off?! Does no one give a **** about the environment? Health benefits? Illegal immigration? Tax cuts for the rich? And on and on and on and on...........

Hey Bacchus were you in Vietnam? You were around 20 in 1967. Im just curious as to why all the hatred? Slimebag? Vast improvement? Imbecile? Blatant criminal? Your comments describe President Clinton more than President Bush.

You must be smoking something (not that I have anything against that)