Uncovered: The War in Iraq

TAZ · 03-30-2005, 4:12 PM

I'm still laughing because someone thinks Michael Moore tells the truth!

So...Bush a "liar"? Perhaps. A statement not based in fact, but then, liberals, other anti-Americans and Bush-haters have never let fact (or lack thereof) stand in their way before. (The keen among you will observe that I just implied that liberals are anti-American.) Personally, I wouldn't care if Bush WAS a "liar"...if in fact that's what it took for the US to rid the world of Saddam, and take steps to bring democracy to the Middle East. If "lying" is what it would take to squash nuclear weapons programs and anti-American sentiment in North Korea or Syria or Iran, I'd be all for that, too.

Let's talk about oil for a second. The US does not get any kind of large quantity of oil from Iraq, if any at all. As I understand it, oil companies refuse to go to Iraq to get oil because it's too dangerous, and too expensive. However, I'd be ALL FOR getting some o' that oil. But let's not imply that oil was any kind of reason for the continuation of this war. The effort to oust Saddam and introduce democracy to Iraq has not garnered any financial benefit, and it has not brought Americans cheap oil; instead, the war has beset the US with incredible national debt and seen the continuing downward spiral of the value of the US dollar. Oil prices are much higher now than they were before the war was resumed, and they're not looking like they'll get cheaper any time soon. I am personally offended by STUPID statements about how the US went to Iraq for oil, because myself and every other American are paying a literal price every day.

I cannot believe how much time I waste on these people (some of them can't even read!), but the way I see it, we all have to do our parts to set them straight when possible, or the world will be overrun by idiots who think they've been enlightened by the likes of Michael Moore.

sheepofblue · 03-30-2005, 4:58 PM

I am amazed but I now agree with Cowboy. The RR is red as are the other two, so I am set there (may need a sickle on the tank) The Blue leathers are going on eBay soon and I am moving to Cuba. Of course I will have to give the RR and RC to a party leader since I have three. I know we are all equal but some being more equal they deserve the higher performance mahcines. My house and cash I plan on donating to Mr Moore since he seems to be so wise I am sure he will make better use of it. And I will have to become a citizen of a peaceful and neighborly country. I was thinking since Syria is head of the UN Human Rights commitee.

luvtolean · 03-30-2005, 6:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPinOZ

LTL, I don't dispute that America has fought for freedom and against oppression all over the world. But it is not the only country to have done so. If you go to any country town in Australia you will find a memorial with long lists of sons (and sometimes daughters) who gave their lives in the wars. The same applies in many countries around the world. We are free men today due to free men of yesterday choosing to sacrifice themselves and those men weren't all from the USA.

Of course. Your last sentence is dead on, well said.

My statement has dangerous implications like this if taken out of context. I do not mean to imply, or reduce the value of other countries that in pretty much all conflicts have fought and died as allies. Aus has been one of the best to the US, no question.

Cowboy was saying Americans don't care about anyone. I think we have certainly as a country proven this to be absolutely incorrect. I mentioned our contribution to Aus in WWII only to personalize it for him.

Baketech · 03-30-2005, 7:01 PM

While I acknowledge Trollboy1600's differing POV.....I take solace in the fact that his opinion is not the norm among his countrymen....

His government showed the courage to stand with us, and is doing the right thing in Iraq as we speak. I am appreciative of their service and sacrifice....

*Mo Noyz* · 03-30-2005, 7:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baketech

While I acknowledge Trollboy1600's differing POV.....I take solace in the fact that his opinion is not the norm among his countrymen....

His government showed the courage to stand with us, and is doing the right thing in Iraq as we speak. I am appreciative of their service and sacrifice....

+1

BladeRider · 03-30-2005, 7:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepofblue

I hope Cowbo1600's opinion of the US is an aberation rather than the norm in Australia as you and your country are a valued friend. That said if he was the norm I would support my country doing what I think is right if NO other country stood with us.

It isn't the norm, living here for almost a year and I find most Aussies a fine bunch of people. Cowboy is just an ass, not a good representative of his countrymen.

sheepofblue · 03-30-2005, 8:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BladeRider

It isn't the norm, living here for almost a year and I find most Aussies a fine bunch of people. Cowboy is just an ass, not a good representative of his countrymen.

Not necessarily an ass but liberal to the point of socialist (or more) And for some reason I have yet to grasp despises the US.

I believe you on the nice folks bit and would like to visit there and NZ one day. Also even in countries with governments that are aligned against us when you meet someone person to person they are generally nice.

rocket · 03-30-2005, 8:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowboy1600

Why would I give a flying fook about what Russia and France have with Iraq? Why do you? What, was the US jealous that Russia/France got their first and wouldnt let the US join their little party?

As for being a real american. What is a real american? a toothless, narrow minded, self centred, flag waving, cousin humping, gun toting, resource vacuum too stupid to think for themselves? Ill pass thanks. I live in the greatest country in the world, inhabited by the greatest people in the world. Becomming an American is something nightmares are made of.

The Australians I know are easy going hard working individuals that would rather die than banter on day after day week after week month after month about the same contrived bullshit that you seem to enjoy so much. I'd agree with you that Australians are some of the greatest people in the world. And how is it you include yourself in that group again? I missed that part.

Cowboy1600 · 03-31-2005, 1:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepofblue

Not necessarily an ass but liberal to the point of socialist (or more) And for some reason I have yet to grasp despises the US.

I believe you on the nice folks bit and would like to visit there and NZ one day. Also even in countries with governments that are aligned against us when you meet someone person to person they are generally nice.

I dont think Im that far left, its more a case of parity. There are a lot of "right" leaning people on here, some of them far right. Us "lefties" are a minority, so I guess I go that bit further to try and balance things out, much to the angst of many of you.

Its like my apparent anti-us stance. Im actually not anti-us

I know many wont believe it but its the truth. My gripe is there is so much flag waving that goes on in here I try and keep balance by highlighting some negatives. Its great to be a patriot, and to love your country, I know I love my country, but often it tends to go on ad nauseam. I do go to extremes, often, but I guess thats just me. I really dont hate your country. Your president yes, but Americans no.

I do say a lot of things that attack many of the things many of you guys hold dear, but its never my intention to make things personal.

Cowboy1600 · 03-31-2005, 2:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocket

The Australians I know are easy going hard working individuals that would rather die than banter on day after day week after week month after month about the same contrived bullshit that you seem to enjoy so much. I'd agree with you that Australians are some of the greatest people in the world. And how is it you include yourself in that group again? I missed that part.

Yep, hard working member of Australian society, thats what I am. I work 30+ hours a week and am full-time at uni. Ive worked almost the whole time between leaving HS and now. The times I didnt have a job I worked hard to find one, going to the point of moving 2000ks, away from my family and friends, to where its possible to find work. Im about as aussie as they come, the fact that im politically active means nothing about my level of "aussieness". Just because you disagree with everything I say doesnt mean im not an Aussie, just that my beliefs are different from yours.

*Mo Noyz* · 03-31-2005, 2:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cow boy

Us "lefties" are a minority

Oh my!

Finally you speak some truth!!

Cowboy1600 · 03-31-2005, 2:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BladeRider

It isn't the norm, living here for almost a year and I find most Aussies a fine bunch of people. Cowboy is just an ass, not a good representative of his countrymen.

Ha! So your quite qualified to make judgements about whether I "represent" from **** that I write online? Nice one tiger

Maybe you should go back to wherever it is you came from.

Cowboy1600 · 03-31-2005, 2:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baketech

While I acknowledge Trollboy1600's differing POV.....I take solace in the fact that his opinion is not the norm among his countrymen....

His government showed the courage to stand with us, and is doing the right thing in Iraq as we speak. I am appreciative of their service and sacrifice....

And Australia as a majority, myself included, was very much against Howards decision to go to Iraq. We as a nation however are very much behind the troops that are now there and hope they all return safely home. We hate being lied to in order to convince us to carry out some little mans sycophantic adventurers.

Cowboy1600 · 03-31-2005, 2:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPinOZ

LTL, I don't dispute that America has fought for freedom and against oppression all over the world. But it is not the only country to have done so. If you go to any country town in Australia you will find a memorial with long lists of sons (and sometimes daughters) who gave their lives in the wars. The same applies in many countries around the world. We are free men today due to free men of yesterday choosing to sacrifice themselves and those men weren't all from the USA.

Well said. Australia too has a very proud history standing up and fighting hard when needed.

Cowboy1600 · 03-31-2005, 2:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepofblue

1991 ended in a CEASE FIRE that was violated
1991 ended in a CEASE FIRE that was violated
1991 ended in a CEASE FIRE that was violated
1991 ended in a CEASE FIRE that was violated
1991 ended in a CEASE FIRE that was violated

Hopefully this time you caught it. Yes they were very much related in the speeches that referred to WMDs that have been misqouted there is also reference to the violated UN resolutions and violated CEASE FIRE of the first gulf war.

The fact remains 2002 is very different to 1991. Saddam was pure evil and Im glad hes been dispatced. However, Im still not convinced this was the motive for Bush to make the decision to invade Iraq. The cease fire violations would be like walking down the street and having some kid throw peebles at you. And the US reaction would be like pulling out a 50 cal and puting that kid into the middle of next week.

Its wonderful that the Iraq people no longer live with the tyranny of the Hussein family, but what will it be replaced with? This remains to be seen. In the short term it seems "US democracy". Is this what the Iraqis want? Is this whats good for them? Will it be unfettered?

Cowboy1600 · 03-31-2005, 2:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepofblue

Yes self protection is paramount as it should be. However we helped free France twice (must have been for the cheese) stopped the Japanese from savaging most of Asia then helped them rebuild and become a peaceful and prosperous nation. Are currently helping to free Iraq and god willing they also will become a prosperous and peaceful nation (they have a lot of potential if history is an indicator), prevented Granada from being taken by a dictator. We have also provided the largest percentage of troups and $$$ to the UN. Not saying we are perfect but if we are your best example of evil consider yourself fortunate.

And I could fill pages with things the US has done, and is continuing to do, that goes against the freedom etc. that you claim the US has brought to so many people. You see the US through rose coloured glasses, I take the contrary position. If I seem so far one way, what do you think you seem to me?

Cowboy1600 · 03-31-2005, 2:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Noyz

Oh my!

Finally you speak some truth!!

This forum is not a good representation of the population at large. Its largely people with right leaning views, so i pull a hard left to attempt to balance things a little.

BladeRider · 03-31-2005, 2:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowboy1600

Ha! So your quite qualified to make judgements about whether I "represent" from **** that I write online? Nice one tiger

Maybe you should go back to wherever it is you came from.

That's it I'm packing my bags Cowboy is kicking me out of his country

Yes I can tell what you are like just from all the comments you make about Americans, it seems you have no problem lumping everyone from our country in one basket. Not just this thread but continually you refer to everything the US does as "us guys" or "you guys" etc... Maybe someday you will grow up, travel the world and learn a few things.

Cowboy1600 · 03-31-2005, 2:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BladeRider

That's it I'm packing my bags Cowboy is kicking me out of his country

Yes I can tell what you are like just from all the comments you make about Americans, it seems you have no problem lumping everyone from our country in one basket. Not just this thread but continually you refer to everything the US does as "us guys" or "you guys" etc... Maybe someday you will grow up, travel the world and learn a few things.

"You guys" is much easier than highlighting exactly who im making generalizations about. I, perhaps wrongly, assumed most of "you guys" would have the intelligence to figure out who it is Im referring too.

Baketech · 03-31-2005, 7:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BladeRider

That's it I'm packing my bags Cowboy is kicking me out of his country

Yes I can tell what you are like just from all the comments you make about Americans, it seems you have no problem lumping everyone from our country in one basket. Not just this thread but continually you refer to everything the US does as "us guys" or "you guys" etc... Maybe someday you will grow up, travel the world and learn a few things.

This has been said to him many times, but being in that awkward position in life where he knows everything, he has yet to take heed....

Cowboy1600 · 03-31-2005, 8:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fakeintellect

This has been said to him many times, but being in that awkward position in life where he knows everything, he has yet to take heed....

Never have I claimed to know everything. I certainly have strong opinions on many things, but nowhere do I claim to know everything. I present a different point of view, not out of ignorance but rather a different view point. Why is this so hard to understand? Travel is not the be all and end all of knowledge aquisition.

Baketech · 03-31-2005, 9:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowboy1600

Never have I claimed to know everything. I certainly have strong opinions on many things, but nowhere do I claim to know everything. I present a different point of view, not out of ignorance but rather a different view point. Why is this so hard to understand? Travel is not the be all and end all of knowledge aquisition.

See what I mean...