[sheepofblue]

Originally Posted by nomad

...
I know you didn't claim those countries were socialist countries, but felt you implied it following in the steps of SheepOfBlue....

That's SheepOfGlue until I ride on his $$$ at Grattan


Bad BDA there was no reason to resort to name calling.

Back on topic there are no pure socialist or communist systems that I know of. Also you refer back to taxation. In my opinion the big difference is the use of taxes. Taxation for the Interstate system was a true tax for the common good, the resulting system is used by most if not all residents and businesses. Taxation to pay someone elses bills is wealth redistribution which implies the state owns the resources of those that created them. I am sure we would disagree on a lot of this type of topic. Also health care is a 'good' despite the various level of need for it (some critical, some vanity based)

[BDA116]

One more time for ya, skippy. I know you were 'schooled' in Canada, so I'll type this slowly for you.
I never stated that any country that uses any of the aforementioned socialist tenets (yes, they are socialist basics. Do some research rather than your typical verbal diarrhea) is inherently socialist.
I just pointed out the fact that they are basic socialist tenets. Here in the United States we have plenty of socialism, and it's just getting worse. Social Security and welfare are just two examples of wealth redistribution through taxation - socialism. Your personal welfare and retirement should be your personal property and responsibility, not that of the general public. Socialism defined.
Taking money by force from those that make the conscious decisions to work hard and take risks only to give that money to those that don't is socialism defined.
Both simple examples here in the U.S. Is the U.S. socialist? Not yet, but the left is trying to get us there.
Other countries - like the greatest country on the planet (which is it Canada or Australia?) have more socialist programs, but are not inherently socialist. Pretty simple concept - even for a high schooler.
If you can not grasp this, there is no point in discussing anything with you. However, many of us knew that from the beginning.
So in closing, you are right. Canada is perfect, has a perfect government and society. The 'health care' system there is perfect, having no problems whatsoever.
You and cb1600 should start your own country of perfect government and society.
Preferably on Bikini Atoll.
Your perfect knowledge rules!!

[BDA116]

Originally Posted by sheepofblue

Bad BDA there was no reason to resort to name calling.

There was absolutely no name calling on my part.

[nomad]

Originally Posted by BDA116

There was absolutely no name calling on my part.

Well skippy, since you continue with the insults and no content, you can take it up your pure-anarchist tail-pipe.

[BDA116]

Originally Posted by nomad

Well skippy, since you continue with the insults and no content, you can take it up your pure-anarchist tail-pipe.

Typical left wing extremist. Faced with fact, turn tail, name call and cry.

[Kuss929]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Edit: Some of my favorite quotes

Originally Posted by Kuss929
Simple. "THE MAN" has no national ties except to Moneyland.

As in Bush? Yeah, we started doing biz in China 4 years ago.

No not Bush. Anyone running a large company who sees using China as a money saving, stock pushing option that will make them rich or make their company appealing to buy which will in turn make them rich. Screw the people doing the actual work.

[sheepofblue]

Last post:

Originally Posted by BDA116

One more time for ya, skippy. I know you were 'schooled' in Canada, so I'll type this slowly for you.

Unless his real name is Skippy and a very condescending tone

Originally Posted by BDA116

Do some research rather than your typical verbal diarrhea) is inherently socialist.

Also not polite

Originally Posted by BDA116

If you can not grasp this, there is no point in discussing anything with you. However, many of us knew that from the beginning.
So in closing, you are right. Canada is perfect, has a perfect government and society. The 'health care' system there is perfect, having no problems whatsoever.

More insulting tone
Previous post:

Originally Posted by BDA116

Hey skippy, do you possess an ounce of reading comprehension?

Condescending

Originally Posted by BDA116

Learn a little before you post such nonsense.

Condescending

Originally Posted by BDA116

That is what I stated. Take all your crying about other countries somewhere else.
I truly wonder who has a lesser grip on reality and politics - yourself or your genius counterpart cowboy1600.

Insulting


I also disagree with his position but civil discussion is more productive and has a better chance at persuasion. Also while I prefer the US, Canada is a great neighbor full of nice folks. The delta in government does not change that Disagree but be POLITE

[BDA116]

Off your high horse you go.
All the above are perfect examples of fishing and leading. No name calling whatsoever.
No get off the damned line. This is one of the easiest fish to catch over and over and over again on the .org.
He also happens to be one of the least polite and most condescending.

[nomad]

Originally Posted by sheepofblue

Back on topic there are no pure socialist or communist systems that I know of. Also you refer back to taxation. In my opinion the big difference is the use of taxes. Taxation for the Interstate system was a true tax for the common good, the resulting system is used by most if not all residents and businesses. Taxation to pay someone elses bills is wealth redistribution which implies the state owns the resources of those that created them. I am sure we would disagree on a lot of this type of topic. Also health care is a 'good' despite the various level of need for it (some critical, some vanity based)

Cheers bud.

I agree there are no pure socialist or communist systems. We, humans, are too fallible to make those systems work.

I separate, in my mind, taxation from user fees. Although they probably are technically one and the same. Tolls, stamps and so-on I consider user fees. Income tax, corporate or personal, etc. I consider taxation. User fees tend to work well in an even distribution environment but not when you have to provide for people outside of the even distribution (say roads to the few that live way up north in canada) user fees become too large a burden and for the good of the whole, taxation must be used to provide those services.

I'm not for or against taxation. I don't mind paying taxes if they are used appropriately. But I don't really see how taxation makes Canada socialist. They are trying to provide, what we consider, essential services. Our government has no goals about empowering the worker class or any such notions which is what I think separates us from socialists.

[sheepofblue]

Originally Posted by BDA116

Off your high horse you go.
All the above are perfect examples of fishing and leading. No name calling whatsoever.
No get off the damned line. This is one of the easiest fish to catch over and over and over again on the .org.
He also happens to be one of the least polite and most condescending.

Sheep == wooly, nice, kind of goofy, the blue ones being faster than the more common white ones
Horse == sneaky foul creature

Do not mix the 2

[nomad]

Originally Posted by BDA116

Off your high horse you go.
All the above are perfect examples of fishing and leading. No name calling whatsoever.
No get off the damned line. This is one of the easiest fish to catch over and over and over again on the .org.
He also happens to be one of the least polite and most condescending.

To respond or not to respond...
Sheep, don't worry about BDA. I appreciate you pointing out his silly-talk but this useless banter goes way back between him and I. Insults instead of discussion, he finds it amusing, I find it a waste of time. Not to mention when he gets proved wrong or gets called out for making inappropriate comments he calls it fishing. Truly, fishing is a fine art perfected by guys like Pete and BDA is only trying to emulate that. *shrug* it doesn't work half-way through a post. Mind you, I'd say ND4SPD did a good job at kicking off this thread! Oh yes... and as for the insults. I don't even bother to respond... again, it's not 'fishing' when you call people condescending or impolite, it's just rude. Why waste so much space with no value and less humour?

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by Kuss929

No not Bush. Anyone running a large company who sees using China as a money saving, stock pushing option that will make them rich or make their company appealing to buy which will in turn make them rich. Screw the people doing the actual work.

And those people get rich how? By delivering products that we, the American consumer buy.

Insatiable American demand for cheap products, and products in general, is the culprit!

If Americans were willing to pay more for American made goods, you'd see more of this stuff made here. But they aren't!

This is not the fault of anyone's government. And not some evil CEO. It's just good business of listening to your customer.

[BDA116]

Originally Posted by nomad

To respond or not to respond...
Sheep, don't worry about BDA. I appreciate you pointing out his silly-talk but this useless banter goes way back between him and I. Insults instead of discussion, he finds it amusing, I find it a waste of time. Not to mention when he gets proved wrong or gets called out for making inappropriate comments he calls it fishing. Truly, fishing is a fine art perfected by guys like Pete and BDA is only trying to emulate that. *shrug* it doesn't work half-way through a post. Mind you, I'd say ND4SPD did a good job at kicking off this thread! Oh yes... and as for the insults. I don't even bother to respond... again, it's not 'fishing' when you call people condescending or impolite, it's just rude. Why waste so much space with no value and less humour?

Same old tired B.S. from nomad. Never able to back up anything you say, no facts, just moronic ramblings of an anti-American. Facts are given to you, factual definitions of socialism are given to you, and all you can do is run away, cry and name call.
It's a well documented behavior of yours, known by many on the site that point out the fact that there is no use showing you fact, as you already know it all and are completely closed-minded.
Canada's "health care" system is socialism. Welfare programs are socialism. Taxation for the purpose of taking from those that earned it and giving it to those that did not is socialism.
Canada has MANY socialist programs. That doesn't mean Canada is socialist, which is all you are capable of gleaning from that fact.
Again, gain knowledge on the subjects you ramble about. Then instead of your constant anti-everything extremism you may be able to hold an intelligent conversation.

[nomad]

Originally Posted by BDA116

Same old tired B.S. from nomad. Never able to back up anything you say, no facts, just moronic ramblings of an anti-American. Facts are given to you, factual definitions of socialism are given to you, and all you can do is run away, cry and name call.

This isn't anti-united states, I haven't cried, runaway or name called. If you say it again, it still won't be true. As sheep pointed out, you were the person name calling and throwing insults around. Quit wasting bandwidth and my time.

Originally Posted by BDA116

It's a well documented behavior of yours, known by many on the site that point out the fact that there is no use showing you fact, as you already know it all and are completely closed-minded.

The only time I've been called closed-minded was back in the days of our War against Iraq threads by Baketech. Not in person, or anywhere else. And the facts you are referring to in that thread were statements about finding WMD and such. *shrug* Those details are irrelevant here. Trying to put me down doesn't make you any bigger, nor does it make you any more correct.

Originally Posted by BDA116

Canada's "health care" system is socialism. Welfare programs are socialism. Taxation for the purpose of taking from those that earned it and giving it to those that did not is socialism.

I gave you my definition of Socialism and backed up my comments. Where is your definition of socialism?

Originally Posted by BDA116

Canada has MANY socialist programs. That doesn't mean Canada is socialist, which is all you are capable of gleaning from that fact.

You are correct that Canada is not a socialist country. But a socialist program is one that would empower the working class... how does providing health care do that? I don't see how it fits into that definition of socialism.

Originally Posted by BDA116

Again, gain knowledge on the subjects you ramble about. Then instead of your constant anti-everything extremism you may be able to hold an intelligent conversation.

Sheep and I were having an intelligent conversation. The only deviation has been your distracting and offensive posts.

[nomad]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

And those people get rich how? By delivering products that we, the American consumer buy.

Insatiable American demand for cheap products, and products in general, is the culprit!

If Americans were willing to pay more for American made goods, you'd see more of this stuff made here. But they aren't!

This is not the fault of anyone's government. And not some evil CEO. It's just good business of listening to your customer.

LTL, good post.

[aussie_929]

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

Someone explain something to me...

China is a communist country and we are obviously not allies with them. Why is it that we give them all of our manufacturing jobs? I realize that it comes down to dollars/cheap labor. Can't the government step in and say something about promoting the economical growth of an enemy?

Why not just invade them?

[sheepofblue]

Too much paperwork to get it started...

[Cowboy1600]

Nomad, BDA isnt worth the time of day. Hes shown his true colours here. I love how he cant get over me. Whats the matter BDA, sounds like you might have a crush

As for the discussion at hand, I love how socialism is such a naughty word. We should all pay out of socialism, because as we can see, the alternatives are simply smashing. One of my core philosophys in life is that there is always a happy medium. Pure capitalism is bad, pure socialism is bad. Somewhere there is a happy medium, and currently many countries are trying to find them. To label Canada, England or Australia a socialist country because of health care and wealth redistribution is pure stupidity.

Perhaps the US has swung too far toward capitalism, which could be the reason all the maufacturing jobs are going off shore. With no tariffs or subsidies to protect local industy, corporations are obviously going to find the best ways to maximise their profits. Making products and selling them = profit. Making them cheaper = bigger profits.

[aussie_929]

Originally Posted by sheepofblue

Too much paperwork to get it started...

What do you mean? The US doesn't need any valid reasons to invade other countries.

[Cowboy1600]

Originally Posted by aussie_929

What do you mean? The US doesn't need any valid reasons to invade other countries.

Paperwork, scmaperwork.....CHAAAARGE!!!!

[Bacchus]

Someone please take the time to ask the poor phooking Tibetans what they think of China!!