[luvtolean]

If there was a tax penalty/per child, like say China, would you say they were dissuading people from breeding?

[luvtolean]

BTW, sorry you guys got my IRS comment...it was smack talk really. Obviously, the IRS does not make the decisions to incentivize things like alternative energy production and children. That is the work of politicians looking to buy votes.

[oldfogey]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

I'm not aware of any other country in the world that gives a tax break for having a kid. It should be a tax increase, as you are costing the government more money!

Socialist, catholic France gives significant tax breaks for having children / large families.

One argument in favour of subsidising having children is where there is already a demographic problem with unfunded, state pay-as-you-go pension schemes. If there aren't sufficient future tax payers, then current tax payers won't have any pensions in future. So they subsidise themselves to have more children. (But put controls on immigration that prevent young foreign workers doing the same.) Control economies can get very complicated!

[phobiaphobe]

All good points, but I think there is a bigger issue here...


Is Newf's daughter hot?

[analogbear]

[quote=phobiaphobe]Nope, I don't have kids, so why should I have to pay for the care of yours?

I don't mean to sound callous but it's just not my problem and I don't want to have to pay for it.

quote]

Phobe, you let me down...Those kids, with adequate care, will have incentives to join society as productive members. Without it, they will be indoctrinated into the criminal anti-establishment camp (distinguished from those who thoughtfully question), who, of course, have no respect for society. This will cost you so much more in criminal litigation, cops, loss of more privacy (cameras, etc) and so on. C'mon, it's all for the childrenz.

[analogbear]

Sorry, L2L, you already covered it in much greater detail and more elegant prose. Here, though, shouldn't EMPLOYERS provide subsidised child care for employees?

I have 2 kids, and each one costs about a grand...every three weeks.

[analogbear]

Originally Posted by BDA116

Nowhere in the Constitution does it state that the federal government is to provide day care or education.

Although accurate, it is not true. There is a constitutional right to a basic education (hence mandatory attendance through age 16 or a test if home schooled) granted under both the commerce clause and the spending clause.

[BDA116]

Originally Posted by analogbear

Although accurate, it is not true. There is a constitutional right to a basic education (hence mandatory attendance through age 16 or a test if home schooled) granted under both the commerce clause and the spending clause.

Through back-door means by a few who decided to interpret the Constitution that way and force it on us all.
So yes, it is both accurate and true. There are reasons the framers left specifics out. And it wasn't so some group could decide they wanted it in, and thus changed the document to read how they wanted.

Day care is the responsibility of the parents. Not the gubmint or employers.

[phobiaphobe]

The Libocrites are on the Conservatives here like stink on **** because in their few months in Parliament they've "failed" to provide a daycare solution... where the Liberal Party failed to do anything in 13 years. Assholes.

The Liberal broadcast media here have turned into a 24-7 attack ad against the Conservatives. Now I know how you guys feel.

[analogbear]

Originally Posted by BDA116

Day care is the responsibility of the parents. Not the gubmint or employers.

Sure, parents (and I think people ought to apply for a license to breed) should be responsible; I just think it is reasonable to have employers (especially the large ones -many of which do this already) offer a reduced-cost optional child care (and adult care-for those of us with elderly parents who wish them to remain a close part of the family)program for emplyees, providing coverage up to 45min before a shift through 45min after a shift for each employee.

The government should only provide standards for operation and licensing for health and welfare (not the public assistance program) reasons; and, offer subsidies to people who demonstrate a need -including single parents, poor people, and folks maintaining a C+ average or better in college.

Oh, and it wasn't some small group that pushed for the recognition of a constitutional right to a basic education...It was ALL of the parochial schools, private schools, and groups like the Mormons, Quakers, Amish, Jewish, and Christians who wanted to be able to have their own schools, and their legal attacks AGAINST the government who wanted, at the time, there to be no minimum standard of education.

You, beedyA, on the side of the big bad government? Say it ain't so!

[ccwilli3]

$1100 a month will get you an au pair or a nanny if you look in the right places...

[DJChyk]

Believe it or not I read all of this to see what the big deal was about. Interesting...

The government is already a huge part of our daycare system. For three years, I was on the board of directors of a daycare center where over half of the children came from lower income families. The state subsidized those family's childcare costsn and the children's meals (just like in your local school). For a majority of the kids, the meals they got at the center were the most nutritious meals they had all day.

We taught the basics (letters, numbers, colors, good nutrition, etc). One-on-one time with mom & dad was rare, as the parents worked long hours just to cover human needs (housing, food, electricity, water). Ever worked a long day and not had the energy to interact with your kids, your dog, your friends? Make that every day and you're in their position.

Many of the parents were simply under-educated, not stupid or lazy. They had not been offered the educational opportunities that those of us sitting at computers right now enjoyed. In two-parent homes, both were working. If single-parent, many also cared for older/disabled family members. The center gave the children a chance to learn and become an asset to the community. If a couple of my dollars has to go to make that happen, I'm game.

And for the record, $1,100/month will barely get you quality in-home childcare (aka nanny). And that's if you live in a smaller community (not the coasts or a top 100 market), AND if you can find one. By the time you do background checks, pay payroll taxes, and provide them with a place to live, the cost goes way beyond that.

[ccwilli3]

but it can be done...

My significant other is a nanny and makes well above median income for the state doing it. Damn fine living if you ask me. She spends her day's at art museums, science museums and libraries with those boys. Makes more than a lot of 'would be engineers' do around here. But she has a master's degree and 10+ years as a teacher in private schools. She deserves every dollar she gets IMHO. She also has a clause in her contract that any children of her own can be there with her as well. Cool points for me, my childcare costs will be zero and he/she will get raised by their mother while she still makes a fine living. Its a sweet deal.

a friend of mine has an au pair from columbia (I think), she has a master's degree, lives with them and I believe he pays her $1000 a month to teach/watch his 8 year old daughter and 1 year old son.

[RRWANTR]

Originally Posted by ccwilli3

but it can be done...

a friend of mine has an au pair from columbia (I think), she has a master's degree, lives with them and I believe he pays her $1000 a month to teach/watch his 8 year old daughter and 1 year old son.

But is she hot....

[BDA116]

I think we've pretty much decided as part of the new house build to also do an out-building on the property with a small portion of the yard fenced off to use as a day-care/preschool.
Most likely a preschool, but either one will bring in the dollahs.

[analogbear]

Originally Posted by BDA116

I think we've pretty much decided as part of the new house build to also do an out-building on the property with a small portion of the yard fenced off to use as a day-care/preschool.
Most likely a preschool, but either one will bring in the dollahs.

I assume you're not keeping them in the fenced-in part like cattle...

Well done. I have an idea for a retirement village where folks get to have a token economy, do a little daily shopping, and really feel independent.

[BDA116]

Originally Posted by analogbear

I assume you're not keeping them in the fenced-in part like cattle...

Well done. I have an idea for a retirement village where folks get to have a token economy, do a little daily shopping, and really feel independent.

So..........I should drop the P.O. for the electric cattle prods?
I guess my wording wasn't quite correct there, eh?
Yeah, I've got to start somewhere. I'd like to get to have a private school eventually.

I think "outside the box" retirement communities are going to be a hot commodity in the coming decade with all the retirees-to-come. Something different that can attract them to live in the community without feeling like they're in a nursing home would be very cool indeed.

[analogbear]

No, just switch it to those collars...You know, get too close to the fence little Timmy, and ZAP!

I like the idea of private school. I may not say it much, but I am not really a fan of government intrusion into my private sphere, and nothing could be more private than raising and educating our nation's children.

[DJChyk]

Originally Posted by ccwilli3

but it can be done...

My significant other is a nanny and makes well above median income for the state doing it. Damn fine living if you ask me. She spends her day's at art museums, science museums and libraries with those boys. Makes more than a lot of 'would be engineers' do around here. But she has a master's degree and 10+ years as a teacher in private schools. She deserves every dollar she gets IMHO. She also has a clause in her contract that any children of her own can be there with her as well. Cool points for me, my childcare costs will be zero and he/she will get raised by their mother while she still makes a fine living. Its a sweet deal.

a friend of mine has an au pair from columbia (I think), she has a master's degree, lives with them and I believe he pays her $1000 a month to teach/watch his 8 year old daughter and 1 year old son.

Good for your SO! It takes a special person to work with children.

Due to our hours, we compensate our nanny a bit more than that. It all depends on what the market allows. Less money spent = less qualified, less committed to staying with your family as an employee. We live in a university town so quantity is not the issue, it's quality & reliability.

Though the shock collars would work nicely on some days....j/k

[seamus]

Originally Posted by ccwilli3

$1100 a month will get you an au pair or a nanny if you look in the right places...

you can get an hot, college age eastern european au pair for less than that. My ex-girlfriend did that for a year.

Plus you get to rotate them out each year so you don't get bored.

[esoteric]

Originally Posted by seamus

you can get an hot, college age eastern european au pair for less than that. My ex-girlfriend did that for a year.

Do you have to have kids?

[DJChyk]

Originally Posted by seamus

you can get an hot, college age eastern european au pair for less than that. My ex-girlfriend did that for a year.

Plus you get to rotate them out each year so you don't get bored.

hmmm...Tornado Bait travels quite a bit...

[stegen]

I would like to see this enacted in a very controlled manner. The cheapest day care me and the (ex)wife found was $88 a day on friday. I say friday because we got a cheaper rate because it was only one day a week.

We found one place that wanted $62 for infants and $54 for toddlers a day. you figure 5 days a week, 4 weeks a month, thats $2320 a month for daycare. That is more than I bring home a month.

I understand the whole "I dont want to pay for someone elses "insert whatever here"" but we do it all the time. I hate paying for the cheetos for the fat ass that doesnt want to work and is on welfare, but I have to deal with it. I would rather see the person working and paying taxes than sitting at home watching the kids. plus daycare ( to an extant) is good for kids.