Looting: An Argument for Gun Ownership

luvtolean · 08-31-2005, 12:32 PM

Maybe I'm doing this in poor taste, but I am soo pissed about these looters.

An argument in strong favor of private gun ownership is the possibility of the breakdown of law and order. Such as that we see in New Orleans, or we saw in the Rodney King riots. (the Rodney King Riots were a better example IMO)

Of course, the best type of weapon for this is a magazine fed rifle, branded the "assault rifle" by people scared of guns.

We are not just talking about homes. We are talking about people's livelihoods. Looters who have looted gun stores and Wal Mart, now roam the streets armed.

A sudden loss of law and order real possibility anywhere you live in the world.

So vote, do current events make you rethink your stance on gun control?

NinerPilot · 08-31-2005, 3:15 PM

Nothing has changed in my eyes. Problem is that in most states, deadly force isnt authorized to protect personal property, only to protect against imminent fear of death or bodily harm... Now if thug looter comes in armed, I think he is there to harm me. But if I dont see a weapon, it would suck to sit there and not be able to do any more than visually deter.
Chris

ND4SPD · 08-31-2005, 3:19 PM

I bet he would change his mind if he had a red dot painted on his forehead however

sheepofblue · 08-31-2005, 3:26 PM

where is the one for I need to get even more ammo?

RedRocker · 08-31-2005, 3:51 PM

Good guys with guns can deter the bad guys with guns

What kind of thinking is that????

rocker

hucdfox

Mattress · 08-31-2005, 4:03 PM

So is winging them considered deadly force? I'd gladly shoot an unarmed person in the arm or leg who was trying to rob me

luvtolean · 08-31-2005, 4:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedRocker

Good guys with guns can deter the bad guys with guns

Are you serious?

RedRocker · 08-31-2005, 4:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Are you serious?

That is why we need a smiley icon that really let sarcasm seep through, com'on

atr911 · 08-31-2005, 4:12 PM

Wow, the mentality differance between the Americans and Canadians is so incredibly different on subjects like these.

You see, up here we cannot purchase semi-automatic weapons (legally) and I can't recall the last time that a crime was commited with such weapons. Sure people here get stabbed, shot, beat to death, but because fire arms are much less readily available to criminals AND to law abiding citizens we dont have a need to 'protect' our selves against them.

There was a HUGE power outage in Southern Ontario 2 years ago that lasted nearly an entire day and although there were some broken shop windows and some MINOR looting going on, it wasn't anything 'out of control'. We didn't need guns to stop them.

I don't live there (the US) so I dont' know first hand, but I can't see how more guns are going to help the issue. Looter enters with a gun, owner has a gun, someone is going to die, there's a 50/50 chance it'll be you. Is the argument about protecting personal property or your life? Personal property isn't worth killing anyone over and deffinetly isn't dying yourself for.

Adam

luvtolean · 08-31-2005, 4:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinerPilot

Nothing has changed in my eyes. Problem is that in most states, deadly force isnt authorized to protect personal property, only to protect against imminent fear of death or bodily harm... Now if thug looter comes in armed, I think he is there to harm me. But if I dont see a weapon, it would suck to sit there and not be able to do any more than visually deter.
Chris

I remember a picture of a guy during the LA riots standing on the roof of his business with an AR. All the buildings in the area had been vandalized/looted, but the front of his shop was pristine. I doubt he had to do any shooting.

Anyone remember the truck driver?

If it's one guy with a brick, you might not be within your rights to shoot. But a mob with sticks and bricks, is well armed with deadly weapons. I'm shooting. Warning shot or 2 first, and hopefully they'll think better of their actions but nonetheless....

luvtolean · 08-31-2005, 4:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atr911

Wow, the mentality differance between the Americans and Canadians is so incredibly different on subjects like these.

You see, up here we cannot purchase semi-automatic weapons (legally) and I can't recall the last time that a crime was commited with such weapons. Sure people here get stabbed, shot, beat to death, but because fire arms are much less readily available to criminals AND to law abiding citizens we dont have a need to 'protect' our selves against them.

There was a HUGE power outage in Southern Ontario 2 years ago that lasted nearly an entire day and although there were some broken shop windows and some MINOR looting going on, it wasn't anything 'out of control'. We didn't need guns to stop them.

I don't live there (the US) so I dont' know first hand, but I can't see how more guns are going to help the issue. Looter enters with a gun, owner has a gun, someone is going to die, there's a 50/50 chance it'll be you.

Adam

Pretty much all murders are committed with handguns. Unfortunately the statistics are MASSIVELY skewed in the US as we include suicide in our "gun deaths", so there's no real way of knowing what our gun murder rate really is.

That aside, a power outage isn't anything. I was in one for almost 5 days last month. We had no looting. Real problems are riots and disasters like Katrina. Riots are scary. The situation in New Orleans was predictable, and I wouldn't be there to begin with. But the Rodney King riots, were not, so people found themselves in the middle of a warzone not by their own doing.

This is the situation you need a deterrent in.

50/50 chance? Though we can debate the number I think you'll agree, that's better than 0/100 in favor of the crook right?

Edit: BTW, thanks for posting Adam, I was wondering if anyone from the non-gun side would.

Sunbert · 08-31-2005, 4:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atr911

I don't live there (the US) so I dont' know first hand, but I can't see how more guns are going to help the issue. Looter enters with a gun, owner has a gun, someone is going to die, there's a 50/50 chance it'll be you. Is the argument about protecting personal property or your life? Personal property isn't worth killing anyone over and deffinetly isn't dying yourself for.

Adam

If a looter enters my store with a gun I'm not going to be able to scare him off with my little knife.

sheepofblue · 08-31-2005, 4:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atr911

....Sure people here get stabbed, shot, beat to death, but because fire arms are much less readily available to criminals AND to law abiding citizens we dont have a need to 'protect' our selves against them.
...

You see down here we shoot folks that try to stab, shoot or beat us to death. Thus they find some other undefended liberal to stab, shoot or beat. The other problem on comparing Canada with the US is population density and size. When you compare LA (California) to LA (Lower Alabama) you will find one vastly safer and it is also the one without the gun control

atr911 · 08-31-2005, 4:36 PM

But are you prepared to die to protect your belongings? He's not there to kill you only to take your **** right?

If guns weren't available to them in the first place you wouldn't have to worry about it.

We sell rifles here for hunting but nobody walks around with a rifle in their pocket. A Hand gun and or assault rifle has one purpose and that is to kill a human with.

EDDIE110171 · 08-31-2005, 4:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinerPilot

Nothing has changed in my eyes. Problem is that in most states, deadly force isnt authorized to protect personal property...

After hurricane Andrew we were under marshal law. Which meant if the theif was trying to steal your generator, which was helping you stay alive, you could shoot him dead with the item in his hands.

phobiaphobe · 08-31-2005, 4:46 PM

It's pretty hard to tie crime rates with guns a/o gun control. IMO it has more to do with the education system. Nations or states with lower literacy a/o higher high-school drop-out rates seem to have higher crime rates.

These stats are old but still relevant

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-toughcrime.htm

Baketech · 08-31-2005, 4:47 PM

The 2nd amendment is all the "argument" I need...

luvtolean · 08-31-2005, 4:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atr911

But are you prepared to die to protect your belongings? He's not there to kill you only to take your **** right?

No, but if a person enters my house with a gun, I will not take the time to interview him, nor would I believe his answers, about his intentions. He does not belong in my house. He came armed which I will assume means he came with the intention of killing me and my loved ones. The threat will be dealt with in that manner. If he is unarmed, I'll agree, he might only be there because he wants to steal my stuff. Just the same, he better hope I'm either not at home or not awake, because if he wasn't crazy, he wouldn't be in my house robbing me.

Quote:

If guns weren't available to them in the first place you wouldn't have to worry about it.

Guns have been banned in Washington DC for 30 years. It is the city you are most likely to be shot and killed in. London has seen crime rates skyrocket since the virtual banning of guns. Criminals, by definition, don't follow the laws.

Quote:

A Hand gun and or assault rifle has one purpose and that is to kill a human with.

Well, a handgun is designed to be easily carried to defend one's life. Criminals also choose to use them to attack people. "Assault rifle" is a misleading term. The AR-15, the civilian version of the M-16, an evil black gun paraded around by the gun grabbers, is the single most versatile gun in the world. It consistently wins target shooting championships, and is without peer in US competitive shooting in classes where semi-auto weapons are used, regardless of feature set. They are used for hunting. I won't bore a non-gun person with technical details, but let's just say if a person could only own one rifle, and it was legal, this would be the one to own.

Now, back to the discussion at hand, in a riot/looting situation, I need a weapon designed for killing people! That is the point! It is also the reason for the second amendment to the Constitution.

luvtolean · 08-31-2005, 4:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDDIE110171

After hurricane Andrew we were under marshal law. Which meant if the theif was trying to steal your generator, which was helping you stay alive, you could shoot him dead with the item in his hands.

Having a generator stolen in a power outage is serious stuff. Of course, FL has some of the most enlightened gun laws in the country so I'm not surprised.

I also bet there weren't many generators being stolen.

BDA116 · 08-31-2005, 4:59 PM

Gun laws do absolutely nothing to keep them out of the hands of criminals.

Mattress · 08-31-2005, 5:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

...Now, back to the discussion at hand, in a riot/looting situation, I need a weapon designed for killing people! That is the point! It is also the reason for the second amendment to the Constitution.

Just pray they aren't on drugs and you get them within 10 rounds

phobiaphobe · 08-31-2005, 5:03 PM

I think it'd be more fun to kill a man with a harpoon or crossbow anyways.