Judge rules pledge unconstitutional

sheepofblue · 09-15-2005, 12:27 AM

Well y'all get to solve the issue without me due to the difference in time zones.

Time to be busted....

phobiaphobe · 09-15-2005, 12:28 AM

Is he "forcing his religious beliefs on everyone else" or trying to prevent (any) religious beliefs from being forced on others?

luvtolean · 09-15-2005, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDA116

This is the same guy that tried to stop the innauguration because it opened with prayer. What did that have to do with his daughter? He is simply trying to force his religious beliefs on others through government.

No. He's trying to get it out of government. He's not arguing teaching evolution in school.

Quote:

All of these asinine people are making me want to use my acreage to build a private school rather than develop for homes.
Public school is becoming a complete joke thanks to these assholes.

Good for you. Do it, we need more quality education in this country. The public schools are not adequate.

BDA116 · 09-15-2005, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Public school's problems have nothing to do with the Pledge of Allegiance.

No, but they have everything to do with "parents" like that guy.

phobiaphobe · 09-15-2005, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepofblue

Well y'all get to solve the issue without me due to the difference in time zones.

Time to be busted....

I'm using the complementary internet access in the health club lobby. Time for me to sign off and let my deltoids heal.

phobiaphobe · 09-15-2005, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

... The public schools are not adequate.

Beyond inadequate, I'd say they're damaging. Well, if they're anything like Canada's public schools. Ok I'm really going home now.

luvtolean · 09-15-2005, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDA116

No, but they have everything to do with "parents" like that guy.

That's bullshit and you know it.

luvtolean · 09-15-2005, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

Beyond inadequate, I'd say they're damaging. Well, if they're anything like Canada's public schools. Ok I'm really going home now.

Totally, and completely agreed. If I had kids, they wouldn't go public unless I was in an extremely good district. And even then, they'd be doing extra work.

luvtolean · 09-15-2005, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

I'm using the complementary internet access in the health club lobby. Time for me to sign off and let my deltoids heal.

My quads hurt.

BDA116 · 09-15-2005, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

No. He's trying to get it out of government. He's not arguing teaching evolution in school.

No, he is trying to force his religious beliefs by not allowing anyone else to say the words, and circumventing the law makers in the process.
It's two words. Don't say them if you don't want to, but don't force anyone to say or not allow them to be said through government.

BDA116 · 09-15-2005, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

That's bullshit and you know it.

No, I'm totally serious. Those kinds force their opinions and desires on all students by whining to school boards and judges. I'm not talking just the pledge, I'm talking everything else those types bitch about.

luvtolean · 09-15-2005, 12:35 AM

Now we measure the importance of a saying by the number of words used?

He's not forcing anything. He's saying stop doing it. If he was arguing, let's change it from "Satan" to "God", and the ninth approved, you'd be singing a different tune, right?

BDA116 · 09-15-2005, 12:37 AM

It's simple, say them or don't. Don't force your views on everyone because you have a personal issue with it.
And don't use your kids to accomplish it, especially against their will.

And no, I would not be doing the same thing if the word was Satan. I would simply not have my child say the two words. If others wanted to say those two words it would be their right.

09-15-2005, 12:42 AM

LTL, our Forefathers came here with a faith in God, not Satan.

The very first Supreme Court Justice, John Jay, said, "Americans should select and prefer Christians as their rulers."-Truth!
The exact quote is "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."
Jay wrote it in a private letter to Jedidiah Morse in 1797.

Probably a good reason Satan isn't used

luvtolean · 09-15-2005, 12:42 AM

He hasn't forced views on anyone else. Say it as many times as you like, you're still dead wrong.

He just doesn't like his child being coerced. I don't blame him. The schools make these kids pariahs with the pledge. A pledge that has been unconstitutional for quite a while now.

luvtolean · 09-15-2005, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPEED

LTL, our Forefathers came here with a faith in God, not Satan.

The very first Supreme Court Justice, John Jay, said, "Americans should select and prefer Christians as their rulers."-Truth!
The exact quote is "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."
Jay wrote it in a private letter to Jedidiah Morse in 1797.

Probably a good reason Satan isn't used

So? Now you're telling me you can force kids to use religous verbage...as long as you choose the right deity?

luvtolean · 09-15-2005, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDA116

No, I'm totally serious. Those kinds force their opinions and desires on all students by whining to school boards and judges. I'm not talking just the pledge, I'm talking everything else those types bitch about.

It's not this guy. It's not his attorney. It's not the courts. It's the law that allows this to happen.

Attorneys represent their clients, and judges (in an appellate court like this)try to make a judgement based on whether the law was applied correctly by the lower courts or not. That is it. If the law is bad, it needs to be changed.

If you want to make sure that God is in there, go fight the First Amendment to the Supreme Court! Who knows, maybe they'll overturn it for you. If you don't want guys to be able to sue for any reason, get a law on the books. But for now, he's using the system as designed.

*Mo Noyz* · 09-15-2005, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

He laid awake in bed all night wondering "is there really a dog?".

Good lord, I knew the answer, I was just away from the board for too long.

You folks are too fast for me.

BDA116 · 09-15-2005, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

He hasn't forced views on anyone else. Say it as many times as you like, you're still dead wrong.

It's exactly what he's done. He forced his views on all kids in the area, now they aren't allowed to say two words they otherwise would. His personal views are why.
You can state otherwise all day long as well, but it doesn't make it so.
This isn't a situation where he has won the right to have someone not say the words. This is a situation where he has forced all kids, including the very one he cited, that wants to say the words to not say them. Because he wants it that way, no other reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

He just doesn't like his child being coerced. I don't blame him. The schools make these kids pariahs with the pledge. A pledge that has been unconstitutional for quite a while now.

Sorry, but that is not accurate. The real court has not ruled the pledge unconstitutional.
These clowns ruled this way previously, and were overturned. Why did they rule the same when they have already been overturned on this very issue? That is activism, and they will be overturned again, because they are wrong.

*Mo Noyz* · 09-15-2005, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTL

He hasn't forced views on anyone else. Say it as many times as you like, you're still dead wrong.

Oh?

Atheism is just as much a religion as Christianity.

It's exactly why I am Agnostic. To claim with absolute certainty that there is, or isn't, a God is the same thing.

09-15-2005, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

So? Now you're telling me you can force kids to use religous verbage...as long as you choose the right deity?

What are they "using" it for again? I believe they are repeating it, and if they don't believe in it, then I guess they need do nothing with it, but this country was founded on it

<--Man I love this flag smilie!!

Separation of Church & State was to keep the State from the church, not the Church from the State.

09-15-2005, 1:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mo Noyz

Oh?

Atheism is just as much a religion as Christianity.

It's exactly why I am Agnostic. To claim with absolute certainty that there is, or isn't, a God is the same thing.

http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/humftp/E...l/agnostic.htm